Dear British people, wake up!

reply to post by WatchRider


Would you have broken the Oath? Or was there no question of that?

Originally posted by region331
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Do you think they take the oath seriously though? Or is it just a bit of pageantry and pomp?

Do you think its an oath that they'd blindly follow against all common sense, or against their own sense of self preservation or for the preservation of a functioning society.

edit on 27-1-2013 by region331 because: clarification

Who can say how seriously people regard oaths they have taken. You can't say all take it very seriously or all take it as a matter of form because we have no evidence and in reality there must be a huge range in between.

No, I don't think the armed forces would blindly obey a monarch trying to act unconstitutionaly but I do think her position as head of the armed forces would prevent a rogue government trying to use them for repressive purposes. ( the latter circumstance I regard as ludicrously improbable btw)

The royal family is the least of the uk's problems,
there are far more pressing issues that the british people need to wake up to.
But sadly they are fast asleep.

reply to post by Alfie1


I'm of the same opinion of you in that a rogue government is ludicrous.

In my mind, I like to think that most people that take the oath (out of necessity for their job) don't actually take it seriously. Hopefully only a minority do.

Originally posted by Heisenberg59
I, as an American, feel it my duty to warn my brothers and sisters across the pond of what should really be a bigger concern than it is as we speak. Now, we can go through a historical lesson here, but I'll save you the speech. The fact is, all this "the queen has no power" crap needs to stop. I wont even argue that point even though I honestly believe the woman has immensely more power than she lets on.

The problem that I see is that, even if the Queen doesn't have any significant power, how many generations will it take? Do you honestly believe that, given the history of royalty, someone won't take the throne and want that power back? The UK is already talking about leaving the EU. Who is going to stop the next tyrant King from bringing his throne back to where it's been historically? The disarmed people of the UK? Where is the resistance to such a move especially with the UK moving away from the EU?

That's really the only point I want to make here. I've spoken to a good amount of Brits and I haven't heard one actually welcome the idea of royalty regaining their true power. The point I make is that the wheels are in motion. The UK is not immune to history and the world really does not need another King George.

Fire is a powerful ally but a dangerous foe and Brits, you're playing with fire.

Yes, we the people will revolt and appeal to the UN to do everything in their power to remove the king/queen. Ok, may be a problem militarily but slap full economic sanctions on us, our economy will cripple, prevent any weapons/ammunition from entering the UK (easily done, Britain is on an island) and if it came to a military intervention, well, I'm not sure how to do that considering we have the best trained armed forces in the world, basically take out our navy, air forces and air defences then we're screwed.

I know I may've gone off the plot a bit but it's relevant.

Our Royal Family is our history, The Queen still has to "agree" to new laws before they go to Parliament. We dont need guns over here either, we are doing very well without them.

All the problems with the EU is down to David Cameron making the wrong decisions at the wrong time. Every Politician makes mistakes, just look at Obama and this gun row.

reply to post by Heisenberg59

I am not a brit, but EU is worse than a monarchy. EU is pretty much like a dictatorship where member states have little to nothing to say. If they pass a regulation or new law then every country has to implement it. We cant even vote on those who make the decisions for us.

It would be a good thing if they got out of EU.

reply to post by Heisenberg59


I don't get this whole... what if you need to defend yourself against your governments thing ?lol Who would implement the governments hypothetical tyrannical force. The army and police are made up of our sons,brothers,fathers,daughters etc

I find it touching that an American is concerned about a country with no oil reserves to speak of.
The "special relationship" is clearly alive and well.

Leave it to an American to think "omg, you have no guns, what on earth will you ever do!!??"

You see, here in Britain, we like to fight with our fists, our feet, and, like me, with our heads (by that I don't mean thinking), and sometimes with the occasional cricket/baseball bat or golf club.

If the people truly had enough, or things got so bad that we all decided to do something about it, not a lot the government, or the royals, could do about it.

The chances of the police or military opening fire (with real ammunition designed to kill) on civilians is remote, and even if they did they would be overwhelmed in minutes.

The British have spirit, we have heart, we also like a good punch up, god help them (TPTB) if the whole country ever rose up against them.

(PS, a lot of firearm owners in the UK as well, although most would probably still prefer the "if at first you don't succeed, in wi' the boot and then the heed" approach)

This is the funniest thread I've ever seen on ATS
I am absolutely against our constitutional monarchy and would support any referendum for a republic, but the truth is that our current system works with parliament being supreme over the monarch. Any ideas that the unelected head of state could ever command the British Army to perform a coup over elected representatives is just silly, and to be frank, rather uneducated and ill-informed.

Yes, military service men and women take an oath in the name of the queen, I did myself to join the Royal Naval Reserve, but the chain of command is through the Ministry of Defence and ultimately Parliament.

The sentiments in the OP are actually so silly I'm now questioning myself why I've responded, but then a response is needed if only to remind the uneducated tin-foil hat brigade how ridiculous the points being made really are.

Pathetic...nothing to see here folks, even if you have a concealed carry permit, you are no more free than the average Brit.

sigh

In brief:

Guns are unnecessary. We don't have a liberal view towards guns, we just don't need them. True we have gun crime, but nothing substantially worse than America. In fact, I'd say it was better. The strict laws on guns prevent situations where some psycho can enter a school and go postal.

The EU is bad. We don't want to be part of it. We live in a democracy (supposedly) and the men who want to win the next election know that getting us out of the EU will win them votes.

And personally, I welcome the return to an actual monarchy. No matter how bad they are, they can NOT be worse than this faux joint Con/LibDem atrocity that has reneged on nearly every promise they made. It's about time the Queen took back power. With one leader who rules for their lifetime there'd be less of this messing about and constant flux. Britain needs stability, and stability doesn't come from having each subsequent leader overhaul everything.

Originally posted by indisputable
reply to post by Heisenberg59

 

I don't get this whole... what if you need to defend yourself against your governments thing ?lol Who would implement the governments hypothetical tyrannical force. The army and police are made up of our sons,brothers,fathers,daughters etc

Do you think the riot police are caring for their fellow human beings when they are beating them to death for protesting?

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are just waiting for the day to be able to openly gun down a bunch of civilians.

You know what will make them think twice about it? When the civilians start firing back.

reply to post by Heisenberg59


I know I'm entering this thread late and this may already have been said, but.....

I want someone to answer the question of how a tyrant King can be stopped with a disarmed UK that is moving away from the EU. I don't need to be told I'm a stupid American and I don't understand. Just answer the question.

We will deal with it in exactly the same way we have done in the past - efficiently and effectively and despite one or two notable exceptions it has been with very little fuss.

But I've got to say it is a highly unlikely scenario and it would be the end of the monarchy.

The EU would have absolutely no say or influence on it at all regardless of if we were in it or not.

Seems to me like many Americans have a rather unhealthy obsession with possible tyrants - there is much wrong in the world that is real and tangible and that should be addressed without unduly worrying and concerning over highly unlikely scenario's.

I am amazed that people are still posting on this thread who don’t even have the most basic understanding on the constitutional order of the UK.

Why do people insist on ATS on posting about a topic like they know what they’re talking about?

I have found it quite funny to read, there are clearly quite a few posters hear who do know what they’re talking about and its almost funny to see post after post of them telling it like it is.

I just dont understand why people post when they just end up looking silly

reply to post by g146541

But on the brighter side, I'm sure there are still some IRA types who can train the people how to defeat a superior military!

What, murdering, terrorist, scumbag racketeers who won nothing and achieved nothing except exploit and terrorise their own communities using terror and extortionism?

They defeated nobody.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by g146541

 

But on the brighter side, I'm sure there are still some IRA types who can train the people how to defeat a superior military!

What, murdering, terrorist, scumbag racketeers who won nothing and achieved nothing except exploit and terrorise their own communities using terror and extortionism?

They defeated nobody.

Wow, and I thought it couldn't get any more silly. g146541 must be from the US, no Brit would support such a ridiculous notion. I had a mate who escaped to Wales when I was a kid as he got screwdrivered in the knees by the IRA and their chip shop in Ireland got blown up by a nail bomb - deny ignorance?! Educate the ignorant more like!

Heres hoping the OP learned a good lesson from this...

Those of us under a monarchy either directly or in the commonwealth are usually either apathetic or disliking towards the monarchy, but we'll be damned if we'll let someone baselessly bash em... it is after all a cultural institution. Im sure there are cultural institutions that an American would foam and spit about in defense if a foreigner started bad mouthing it, oh wait... yeah that 2nd amendment constitution thingy everyone been on about lately

I have no real feelings towards the royal family myself (its a great waste of tax money), and frankly pity them given the life they are tied to from birth, i mean think about it, they have no life of their own sure its lavish and they'll never want but damn its a 24/7 job with no real say in what they get to do with it and no real power beyond shaping public opinion, and anyone with a loud enough voice can do that.

They can have it, and all the powerlessness it provides them. Their a part of our history, and you should protect your history, even if its not a nice part of it.

Originally posted by PAranormal

Do you think the riot police are caring for their fellow human beings when they are beating them to death for protesting?

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them are just waiting for the day to be able to openly gun down a bunch of civilians.

You know what will make them think twice about it? When the civilians start firing back.

Eric Blairs view of the future was only a 'what if' warning. It makes for good Sci-Fi but It isn't a certainty that humanity will be governed by Fascists, even in the US.

One-off events have led to some nasty confrontations with the Police. Probably the worst in the 1980s during the Miners Strike. But a prolonged, peaceful protest against a tyrannical rule doesn't really give the police a chance to get their adrenaline up. We're fairly civillised if we want to be. It seems to have worked in the past (see Gandhi). Arm those citizens with firearms? I can see how that would end.

The last time the Authorities fired on its Protesting Citizens [I think] was over 100 years ago en.wikipedia.org... My grandfather hated Winston Churchill because of it. He was a Miner.

I think most people are aware that the IRA from the 1970s onwards, were basically drug-dealing gangsters. They seem to have had good PR in the US though.