Schizophrenia is a lie told by the Establishment

One thing I found very true I read decades ago - at some author of psychology, not psychiatry - was that a genuine schizophrenic, especially the paranoid type will be aggravated by coffee and anything containing a stimulant. Another interesting thing was that schizoid people on the whole do better when slightly sleep-deprived. However, some schizophrenics were observed to actually become very sleepy from stimulants like coffee and tea (this is called a "paradoxical effect"). Must be something with being already overstimulated by dopamine...

As I have a very paranoid relative (more exactly, my wife does), who sometimes stays with us, I had a chance to observe this first-hand many times. This person would be totally human and nice and rational just arriving from a trip overseas (which would, with all the lack of sleep, put a normal person of her age in a very exhausted state) and reacted very well to having a glass of wine (alcohol is a mild depressant). In fact, after missing a night's sleep at the age of 64, she was very amiable and chatty.

The next day, after having had an average night's rest, eating etc., she had some coffee.
Trouble was at hand immediately.
One could immediately sense there was something wrong, from her body posture, facial expressions (in common parlance, paranoid people often look brooding, forlorn, very sad and angry at the same time without any external cause, with bulging eyes). In a few minutes we had to face a violent flareup with crazy accusations etc. Now I saw this happen over and over again over the years.

Star to xcalibur for saying what I wanted to see stated in this thread: most ordinary schizos do not have sharp symptoms like experiencing voices from outside. They say all those monologues themselves. When you hear it from the outside, you should be hospitalized or on medication, but that does not mean that a crazy, paranoid dialogue inside one's head would be OK. No, because many paranoids have that and they are unaware that they are sick and thus refuse help and treatment.

What you CAN use to recognize whether a mild paranoid schizophrenia is what they say it is, is that the person simply refuses to check their reality with the reality of others, never letting in outside information concerning their pet paranoid theories, going as far as denying simple facts. Another is that they desperately hide their true agenda and many times have actually a very refined, keen sense of intuition concerning their pet theories (which would all be based upon how they cannot trust anyone anywhere). Plus that stimulants aggravate their situation...

Based on this, many people obsessed with a certain brand of politics are paranoid. Joseph Stalin certainly was.

As far as the theories of causation go though, I would be very careful even though certain neurological symptoms have been observed. Just because a certain neuro-transmitter is in excess when someone with fixed ideas has a flareup, the causative relationship has not been proven. All you can say is that the two go together. Try this: talk to a common paranoiac who would be unable to manage her life and bring in the subject of her paranoia - whatever it is, that those evil Jews take all the money away from honest people, or that UFO's make people oversexed or whatever the person's idée fixe is. Immediately, their organism is flooded with dopamine, and they are ready to defend good from evil. That means, because of mere nonphysical units of meaning, tens of thousands of neuro-transmitter molecules are suddenly manufactured or fired by the nervous system - a pretty complex task, if you ask me, something bio labs haven't ever been able to reproduce.

So what is the cause here and what is the effect?

Fascinating bit about the caffeine. Didn't know that. I've always wondered how the mental health field can sing so unanimously that positive symptoms arise from a dopamine/ seratonin imbalance, yet be so perplexed on how it works. Another common cited though is an awesomely named viral infection called Toxoplasma Gondi. You can get it from poor living conditions, even certain poorly prepared foods. It could explain some of the quickly remissing cases of schizophrenia. One thing I've always noted curiously though, is how similar to a schizophrenic I can be when I'm grossly lacking sleep. This is something that seems strangely overlooked. Scatter brained thinking, potent imagination, highly active daydreams in waking state, even trouble forming complete sentences. Seriously it probably sounds silly it's so obvious. Two things most commonly cited to bring out schizophrenia in predisposed young people: substance abuse and insomnia. Also, what brain functions are common to both? Two I can actually mention off hand. From the Pineal gland: Increased melatonin(sleep cycle regulator) and dmt(fractal shapes chemical). From other parts of brain: like previous user said, increased dopamine, and norepinephrine to minimize discomfort from exhaustion. Now, what regulates mood? Dopamine. Schizophrenics are often manic depressive as well. It's always listed as a comorbid condition in the DSM. What regulates dopamine production? Actually a neurotransmitter called Leptin. Just some food for thought. Sorry if that was sort of all-over. It's early in the Midwest.

Also fun fact: a diet rich in fats and cholesterol will cause a reversible resistance to Leptin, sending your brain into doubts about how much dopamine it actually needs. This could explain the Big Mac mood swings. But schizophrenics in the US tend to be overweight in very noteworthy numbers (right around 70%), so I'd say cheap easy foods diet is a big factor in this whole thing. It's indirect but can't be excluded.

I believe schizophrenia is a real tangible medical condition. But I think the specific conditions within the brain might allow the person afflicted to "see through the veil" so to speak. I suppose there is some actual sensory input that occurs that normally gets filtered out by the sane and chemically balanced mind but in the case of the mentally ill who experience hallucinations that excess noise gets interpreted in some faulty way to be an authentic experience. I mean I really believe that those peoples brains might be having some sort of sensory input. But that input isn't normally for us to internalize. I think that input of unauthorized information causes the damage or split to the psyche resulting in the diagnosis of schizophrenia. Especially like the other poster mentioned schizos don't want the perspective of others. ...

reply to post by Kokatsi


Exactly the thought I was having. ... which is the cause and which is effect. ..I really think there's some initial exposure or something that brings the brain into that state where schizophrenia can become possible. I don't believe the mental health pros know everything just yet and they do in general try their best

I have been a member here since 2007. I certainly know the t&c so I will refrain from just coming out and asking, are you a dumbass or what?

Im gonna go out on a limb here and share what only a few on ATS already know about myself. I am Schizophrenic. I was diagnosed when I was 35, misdiagnosed as classic bipolar, you know that other illness
us crazies have ( rolling eyes). I am happy, healthy, been married for almost 19 years and the mother of a a 17 year old girl, and a 16 year old boy. I go hiking, rock climbing, as well as write music and sing. I'm funloving, "crazy at times" loving, compassionate, sexy, bright and honest. I am an R.N. and have 17+ years exper. in trauma nursing as well as several different areas in the field.

I am not trying to tell you every detail of my life, but I am trying to show you that having a serious mental illness does not define someone, it is only part of that person. It makes up ALL the good, the beautiful, the bad and the ugly.

I have some pretty severe symptoms when I have a break through, meaning when my meds need to be adjusted.
If you have seen A Beautiful Mind or know the story of John Nash, well that has been me at times! I am not ashamed of this illness. I thank God everyday that there are medications that can control the symptoms.

Schizophrenia, is not glamorous, fun, enlightening or controllable. It is not some mind control game played by the government such as Mk ULTRA, nor is it a gift where we have super natural powers! Big pharma is not behind it nor are we possessed by demons!

Schizophrenia is a chemical imbalance that causes distortions in one's perceptions. It can affect all senses but not always. It does usually involve delusions and/or hallucinations. very seldom are schizophrenics violent but they can be!

Please spend some time educating yourself and learning how the brain functions it will help you understand all mental illness.....Do not further stigamatize schizophrenia by being ignorant to the subject matter. Many on ATS as well as myself would appreciate it.

Am I ashamed of having schizophrenia? No I am not; that would be like me being ashamed of just being me.
I would like to encourage anyone who has a mental illness to step forward and help educate the people whom just don't get us......

Thanks for letting me share,
Pax

One more thing, most of us are brilliant!

Misdiagnosed. ....I think the health care pros have to be on point in their diagnoses because if they're not then people won't get the treatment they need and could be endangering themselves or other at worst.. Or at the very least the quality of life could be suffering from an untreated mental illness.

I'm not sure whose the target of the dumbass question but I posted last......

Originally posted by balanc3
Misdiagnosed. ....I think the health care pros have to be on point in their diagnoses because if they're not then people won't get the treatment they need and could be endangering themselves or other at worst.. Or at the very least the quality of life could be suffering from an untreated mental illness.

I'm not sure whose the target of the dumbass question but I posted last......

It was the question I did not ask directed at the O.P. Misdiagnosed as bipolar. I was not bipolar but infact schizophrenic. No mood changes.

A person can use a drug like acid or crank and become mentally ill.
A child if abused can become mentally ill.
A professional football player can sustain head trauma and become mentally ill.
A soldier can be exposed to concussive forces from nearby explosions and become mentally ill.
An embryo in formation could have genetic components that might make a child at risk of mental illness. .
All these may create different illnesses than just schizophrenia. ....I know...

My only support of this op really comes from my belief that the possibility exists that a spiritual component comes into play after the physiological and psychological factors are in effect. The visions or hallucinations are like demons picking on someone who's vulnerable because they're mentally ill. Like if you've got one cold you're fighting off it's easier to catch another while your immune resources are low. I think likewise if your mental immunity resources are low then hallucinations and schizophrenia and paranoia can take place...... I hope that's not insulting but as far as the professional mental heath paradigm is concerned any of the hallucinatory effects are completely unreal. ... in those matters I have no experience just an opinion.

reply to post by paxnatus


Ok Thanks I don't ever intend to insult and can relate to how the op is a bit offensive in nature

People get a grip!!!! That goes to all of you with the exception of boymonkey, hijinx and a couple of others!

You want to know what it is like inside the mind of an unmedicated Schizophrenic?


You tell me what is psychic about sticking your hand in a fuse box to remove a camera, or thinking your husband is going to kidnap your children, take them out of country and have you thrown in prison for terrorism! Try calling your father and begging him to change his will because he will be kidnapped and held for ransom. Perhaps you would like to drive around a parking lot recording the tags off cars, drive home five hours later and wait for them to pass your house!

Can you see what I see? Can you feel what I feel? I tell you the honest truth, for the one it is happening to, IT IS REAL! It is the only thing we know, and our belief becomes so fixed that looking at the hard evidence to the contrary doesnt make a difference. I can tell you, the feeling I had was nothing short of terror!!!

Imagine what it feels like to see something NO ONE else can? On one hand you are perplexed and confused that someone else doesnt see something, on the other you are terrorfied to know you see something that no one else does and you begin to wonder, "Am I totally losing it? Are they in this together?

For the grand finale, try BELIEVING someone is purposely trying to drive you insane!! Not thinking they might be, but convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they ARE and that person is someone you are deeply in love with.

Do you see what I am getting at? I couldnt make this up if I tried. NOt a pretty sight and it only gets worse, until that person seeks treatment!!!

Ask me questions if you want to know what its like living with schizophrenia! As much as I hate this illness, I must deal with it because it is very real in my life and not dealing with it is not fair to the people I love and whom love me!

Pax

Originally posted by paxnatus
People get a grip!!!! That goes to all of you with the exception of boymonkey, hijinx and a couple of others!

You want to know what it is like inside the mind of an unmedicated Schizophrenic?


You tell me what is psychic about sticking your hand in a fuse box to remove a camera, or thinking your husband is going to kidnap your children, take them out of country and have you thrown in prison for terrorism! Try calling your father and begging him to change his will because he will be kidnapped and held for ransom. Perhaps you would like to drive around a parking lot recording the tags off cars, drive home five hours later and wait for them to pass your house!

Can you see what I see? Can you feel what I feel? I tell you the honest truth, for the one it is happening to, IT IS REAL! It is the only thing we know, and our belief becomes so fixed that looking at the hard evidence to the contrary doesnt make a difference. I can tell you, the feeling I had was nothing short of terror!!!

Imagine what it feels like to see something NO ONE else can? On one hand you are perplexed and confused that someone else doesnt see something, on the other you are terrorfied to know you see something that no one else does and you begin to wonder, "Am I totally losing it? Are they in this together?

For the grand finale, try BELIEVING someone is purposely trying to drive you insane!! Not thinking they might be, but convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they ARE and that person is someone you are deeply in love with.

Do you see what I am getting at? I couldnt make this up if I tried. NOt a pretty sight and it only gets worse, until that person seeks treatment!!!

Ask me questions if you want to know what its like living with schizophrenia! As much as I hate this illness, I must deal with it because it is very real in my life and not dealing with it is not fair to the people I love and whom love me!

Pax

im schizophrenic also, i thought my family members were reptillian shapeshifters.
i used to believe that everyone near me knew what i was thinking, and i hallucinated egyptian Gods coming to me,
i hallucinated Signs that i thought were from god either that or demonic spirits.


Having schizophrenia is like your life is a permanent acid trip;
you start "tripping." out of nowhere; randomly, for whatever insane subcouncious reason.

personally i like having schizophrenia. i love egyptian goddess isis coming to me. i dont even care if its a hallucination or not.

im happier with schizophrenia than without it.

reply to post by Belcastro


Sent you a message....

Pax

Thank you for the brave and courageous posters who share some thoughts and feelings about what it feels to be like living (well-adjusted lives) with a mental illness.

As far as the causes, it's best to remain sitting on a fence. Philosophically, an idealist would say that the causes are in the psyche and can be sometimes remedied. A materialist would say let's look for physical, genetic and environmental causes. And both can be helpful. An example of an idealist psychology would be the Primal Therapy of Arthur Janov (even though he would classify himself as a hard-boiled realist). He would say that pain makes people neurotic and if they face it (usually emotional traumas from the early family years or infanthood) is what brings on neurosis. Pain of unmanageable levels, according to Janov, brings about psychosis - in his time two main branches were distinguished, cyclical (manic-depressive, or bipolar) and schizophrenic. When healing, psychotic people (both categories) begin to act very neurotic at first.

Bert Hellinger's family constellation therapy, though it does not usually accept psychotic persons for their kind of treatment, says that in the family history of schizophrenics, there is invariably some violence, death, murder, and a lot of secrets. No one knows why, but some person's unconscious chooses to take on the victim's role in this setup. Hellinger has himself gone through Janov's therapist school, later he modeled his approach from a tribal healing method he observed in Africa, where people tried to improve their relationships actively with their ancestors.

C. G. Jung would point at fringe schizophrenics and see deep religious and artistic symbols - as well as hints at a troubled family history. In contrast, other disciples of Freud saw absolutely no meaning in anything a schizophrenic said, saw or painted if it departed from consensus reality. (Which of course changed a lot since Freud's days.)

Anti-psychiatry, championed by Thomas Szasz, R. D. Laing and others would maintain that there is no mental illness, but we have a sick society and some do not want to adjust to it already at the level of perceptions.

Neuropsychiatry - a materialist school - would say that all the idealists say is rubbish and mental illness is derived from simple physical causes. While this is again an oversimplified approach, their success of managing the lives of many patients with drugs was what led to their acclaim.

The story is similar to stomach ulcer. For a while, ulcers were the best example of a direct relationship between stress and disease. Then someone discovered Helicobacter pylorii and suddenly the medical profession was shifted towards a physical approach - killing the bacteria with antibiotics etc. Years later this enthusiasm abated, because it was found that Helicobacter is found in way too many people, including healthy people, it is never eradicated completely with antibiotics etc. Then they found that stress still does have a direct correlation to all digestive disorders. But this can be the other way around too, for instance, if a person's intestinal flora is severely compromised - e.g. by systemic Candida - they can exhibit very uncomfortable psychological symptoms, some bordering on psychosis. Then when the infection is treated with diets and probiotics and antifungals, their grave psychological troubles - negative hallucinations, impotence etc. - suddenly disappeared.

All this goes to say that one should be careful in judging things in absolutes. Truth and help can and does come from both camps.

A few more things aside from etiology (studying the causes):

The movie about Mr. Nash (a Beautiful Mind) was among the scariest films I have ever seen in my life. If it is really similar to that, I guess the only way to go is to be very exact on medications and to value outside relationships and all the feedback that comes from them, and also, probably, keeping no secrets.

There are many things, if we are to believe Jung, which are shared among people of extraordinary feats and the mentally ill. Altered perceptions are one. Based on the official Western criteria, all shamans and prophets of all ages were schizophrenics, however, Jung elaborated a very meaningful difference: shamans and healers go to altered perceptions when they want to or when they see fit, and they can live whatever is considered to be a normal life (OK, they are sometimes odd or solitary). Another thing is "ideas of reference" - there is basically no difference between the phenomenon of synchronicity and the psychiatric ideas of reference. Certain tribal religions as well as Western Kabbala even encourage one to watch for "omens" - this is the way the Universe sends messages to individuals.

In our civilization, if you talk to God, it is called prayer. If God talks to you, it is called mental illness. Funny, isn't it?

From a Jungian viewpoint, balance would be required in anyone's model of the world. You can have ordinary and non-ordinary perceptions, prophecies, talking to Isis etc. He took pains to point out that what we consider important mystical experiences cannot be separated from mental illness from the POV of scientists. They mean a world of difference to a good psychologist though.

From this point of view, most cults and sects are collectively schizophrenic. This is not to say that all mainstream religions or ideologies are healthy and well balanced.

reply to post by Kokatsi


Thank you. I appreciate your well researched and intelligent post.

My doctor and I believe my latent onset of Schizophrenia was from a very traumatic and violent event.....I was beaten, raped and held hostage by a complete stranger when I was 24. Here is that story if you are interested.

abovetopsecret

My doctor is a Neuro Psychiatrist, and has several specialties, Medical Forensic Specialist, Addiction Specialist,Works with the Mentally Handicapped as well and specializes in Developmental Disorders, including Autism. He works with Children Adolescences, Adults, and the Elderly.

Simply an Amazing man and I have been with him for 11 years! The man and his innovative approach, literally saved my life.

He believes in healthy lifestyle is the key to managing your symptoms. Eating well, and getting plenty of sleep, exercise, managing stress, and doing something you love to do is absolutely necessary if you are going to get on top of your symptoms. Of course, taking your meds correctly and staying on them even when you believe you are well and don't need them, such as I did for years, is a no brainer!

As far as my diagnosis, medical tests have shown I suffered brain damage in the attack and that very well c could be a major factor in my mental illness.

You are so right on about the overgrowth of yeast in the gut. Are you aware that the fungus can grow anywhere in your body such as your brain and your lungs. Yet, most of the time goes un diagnosed?

Very insightful posts. check your u2u.

cheers! Pax

reply to post by Grifter42



Are you schizophrenic OP?
Serious question!

Its not uncommon to go through stages of denial and attribute mental illness to another cause and one can become preoccupied with blaming others, ie "the establishment".

Schizophrenia is a range of symptoms and characteristic which vary from individual to individual so considering that whilst auditory or visual hallucinations are common, the severity and content are always different for each individual. This means that if schizophrenics are able to percieve any form of alternate reality, as you suggest, there should be some form of pattern or trend in the nature of this alternate reality.

That would seem logical, would it not?

You will not find anything like that by researching the material on the nature and contents of visual and auditory hallucinations amongst schizophrenics.
Its all different from one to another.

Logically speaking then, schizophrenics are not seeing or hearing any sort of consistent alternate reality, or even beings, of any consistent nature so as to support any belief that an alternate reality exists and only schizophrenics can percieve it.

reply to post by paxnatus


Please forgive these questions if they seem offensive. ...

If you were not attacked would you not have developed schizophrenia?
Immediately after attack could your memory of the assailant(physical description) be a hallucination?

Could your whole attack experience be a hallucination. .... if it weren't for the evidence that is?

reply to post by atlasastro

Well, you write there should be a pattern in the alternate world... it is logical.
But schizophrenia isn't a logical experience.
From what I learned and had glimpses into, the world of consensus reality is the only logical world. The world i otherwise much bigger. Huxley had this theory on consciousness after experimenting with mescaline (he wrote his famous article "The Doors of Perception" on that) that our normal consciousness is like a filter, a sieve. By that analogue, taken up by many alternative psychiatrists later, the world of most schizophrenics lacks enough filtration. Small children for that matter, do perceive time, space, colors, audio input, sometimes voices and apparitions differently, and they learn to forget it as they adjust. I remember this because I explored this world in therapy in detail. What I discovered about my perception didn't change since those years, and some of it is changes in perception that are pretty general. E.g. the time sense of an average 2-3 yr old kid is as different from ours as that of a person in a profound herbal intoxication. As they fall asleep, psychedelic patterns and voice hallucinations are not uncommon. We just don' remember this.

Originally posted by Kokatsi
reply to post by atlasastro

 

Well, you write there should be a pattern in the alternate world... it is logical.
But schizophrenia isn't a logical experience.

I agree. It is why I argue that it is not an "ability" to percieve another reality that exists. I think people may be putting the cart before the horse so to speak, one could imply that the disorganised and illogical nature of schizophrenic experiences is evidence of the nature of an alternate reality.
If that is the case then the collective experiences of all schizophrenics present one hell of a messy alternate reality. The experiences themselves can(if not always),be detrimental to the individual.

The simpler assumption could be that the fuctioning of the brain is not optimal for experiencing THIS reality. And nothing more than that.

Huxley had this theory on consciousness after experimenting with mescaline (he wrote his famous article "The Doors of Perception" on that) that our normal consciousness is like a filter, a sieve. By that analogue, taken up by many alternative psychiatrists later, the world of most schizophrenics lacks enough filtration.

I am familiar with Huxley, Leary, Mckenna and many others who have shared similar views. I think you are over simplifying what schizophrenics experience. To say that schizophrenics cannot filter enough is to state by proxy that their auditory and visual hallucinations are actually real in the external world but they are simply unable to filter them out as other humans consciously would. The hallucinations are generated by the consciousness of the schizophrenic, it is not external, but an internal problem.

Small children for that matter, do perceive time, space, colors, audio input, sometimes voices and apparitions differently, and they learn to forget it as they adjust.

I understand your point and it is a very valid one but I think it is important to point out that they may percieve them diffently but that does not change the nature of time, space, colour, or the audio input. The nature of that is constant, but the subjective perception may change over time.
I think that is were people may also generate a misconception about the relationship of schizophrenia with reality. Just because a schizophrenic experiences reality differently does not imply that there is a diferent reality that exists.
I think this mindset has dangerous ramifications for people who may suffer from schizophrenia in that one could justify the experience rather than seek help or treatment.

I remember this because I explored this world in therapy in detail. What I discovered about my perception didn't change since those years, and some of it is changes in perception that are pretty general. E.g. the time sense of an average 2-3 yr old kid is as different from ours as that of a person in a profound herbal intoxication. As they fall asleep, psychedelic patterns and voice hallucinations are not uncommon. We just don' remember this.

It is interesting to consider. It might also be interesting to consider the realationship between "profound herbal intoxication" and schizophrenia.
Especially in realtionship to risk, cause and onset of schizophrenia. I think you will find the statistic profound when one looks at the incidence of schizophrenia and "herbal intoxication".