Return of the Saturn V engines

I snoop around the news this morning and see on the fox website "NASA tests vintage Apollo 11 rocket engine" . Being a space nerd who's already old enough to be long on nostalgia I have no choice but to click on this even though I'm sure it'll be one of the lesser engines .

I was wrong ! They're beginning tests on the Saturn V first stage booster engines . I was slightly disappointed in that they're beginning with a starter motor to one of the F-1s , but since they set fire to the field around the test stand maybe that was best .

There's probably a thousand ways to describe the power of the Saturn V booster , but I don't believe that there's a single way so that you do it justice . Even the people who built it under estimated the power they were messing with . The first time they lit off a Saturn V they let the media and public observe from two miles away , even at two miles it managed to knock down the broadcast booth CBS had built for Walter Cronkite , they changed it to three miles after that .
It goes on to say that they're thinking of redesigning and modernizing the F-1 engine for deep space missions but at a million and a half pounds of thrust that's an awful lot of power to push hardware that's already in space . I'm beginning to take that story that they're planning on moving asteroids into earth orbit a little more seriously now .
I don't know how to link so if anyone else is interested and wants to , feel free .

Wow.... You know, in a section of a site I put together, I built a whole multi-media type presentation of the Apollo Program with tabbed displays of everything relating to the different Rockets used for the program with all the stats and comparisons among other things. The Saturn V's are true monsters of raw power and energy.

Is there hope...could it be...we may actually get the chance someday to SEE one of those fly again? I'd never imagine it'd be possible. Even the Shuttle wouldn't have been worth driving to see launch the way I would to see one of those launch in full form. I've read about the scene they made...and just awesome. The only word I think fits.

Im a noob to this, why would they plan on moving asteroids into earth orbit? to harvest them?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Even though the article said they had no plans to rebuild the Saturn booster , it also pointed out that 85 F-1 engines were used in the Apollo program without a single failure , so maybe .

NASA has a habit of doing pointless things on the tax payers dime.

Why study something they have no mission/plans/buget behind it. OK so maybe some aspects were not fully measured or studied back in the 60's. Big deal! What's the likelyhood they would use anything close to the same design if they did have a mission for it? Zilch!
You know they would hire new engineers and buy new software and come up with a totally new design if the need arises.

reply to post by camaro68ss


Yes , not only would it make mining them easier , but we could study them at length . They could also be used for inhabited bases for a multitude of uses . They would offer protection from solar rays and micro-meteors and you wouldn't have to deal with much of a gravity well .

The Hammer of God...

They could push them out of the way but also direct them into say a country and claim it was an act of God hehe

Originally posted by abeverage
The Hammer of God...

They could push them out of the way but also direct them into say a country and claim it was an act of God hehe

Dang , I forgot about that .
But now that I think about it if we have that capability , we maybe could do without nuclear weapons .

Here is the link to the article for you:

NASA tests vintage Apollo 11 rocket engine for ideas for new US missions

And here's a image from the test itself:



Can we say "Full Thrust!"

reply to post by thudpuddy

Indeed... The fact they're even dusting off the old program plans and equipment is encouraging to me. I'd dearly love to see what could be accomplished with the raw lift power of the titanic Saturn V base.....and perhaps, just maybe, they progress beyond the boosters and consider the whole package again.

Given the bad news after bad news on this front for program cuts, scaling back and outright writing off previous goals as ones no longer considered worthy? I'm happy by 'hope in motion', so to speak. I like the direction the thinking is going, anyway. When in doubt, return to proven success and what worked, eh?

(It's a little bit of a tangent...but what would the thrust power of a Saturn V do if a comparable engine could be fueled and started while already IN Earth Orbit? I'd imagine breaking out of the gravity well goes without saying...but how far beyond that basic threshold would it likely carry something? (space is one of my real side passions for interest )

reply to post by eriktheawful


Your link takes us to a Wiki article about the Kuiper Belt.

Here is the correct link

Can we say... going back to the Moon? Or even to Mars?

That's what those engines are were made for.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm with you , I dearly love everything to do with space travel and thank NASA for the many boons we have now . I know we would have come up with most of this stuff anyway but it would have taken a lot longer . I'm also grateful to have lived in an age where the sky was no longer the limit .

To answer your question about firing one of these things while already in orbit , I got the impression that's what they were aiming for . A manned Mars mission would require a lot of supplies , if you're planning on going first class and taking a lot of luxury items one could come in handy but I'm thinking you better use a lot of tie-downs or you're gonna scatter stuff everywhere .

That's why I started thinking these things might be better used pushing big rocks around , a million and a half pounds of thrust is an awfully big kick for a conventional payload already in space .

Originally posted by wildespace
Can we say... going back to the Moon?

Or even to Mars?

That's what those engines are were made for.

Your last line sounds like a song! hehehehe

Yes, there is something about 1 million pounds of thrust that makes me act like Tim the Tool Man:

"More power! Oooo! Ooooo! Ooooo!"

Originally posted by thudpuddy
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I'm with you , I dearly love everything to do with space travel and thank NASA for the many boons we have now . I know we would have come up with most of this stuff anyway but it would have taken a lot longer . I'm also grateful to have lived in an age where the sky was no longer the limit .

To answer your question about firing one of these things while already in orbit , I got the impression that's what they were aiming for . A manned Mars mission would require a lot of supplies , if you're planning on going first class and taking a lot of luxury items one could come in handy but I'm thinking you better use a lot of tie-downs or you're gonna scatter stuff everywhere .

That's why I started thinking these things might be better used pushing big rocks around , a million and a half pounds of thrust is an awfully big kick for a conventional payload already in space .

I think any travel beyond earths orbit will be stage by stage, a galactic pontoon. It would minimalise dangers if each stage were self sufficient etc, hence the asteroid mining/harvesting.

reply to post by samkent


I work in product development and we bring back the old guys on a regular basis to teach the new engineers why they did what they did . A wheel is still a wheel is still a wheel.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The Saturn V's are true monsters of raw power and energy.

For sure. Ah, yes, nostalgia. It would have been something to actually witness a launch, or even hear the engine test back then. Well, the gas generator was neat to see in pix. That alone was awesome. I like this thread.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

The fact they're even dusting off the old program plans and equipment is encouraging to me.

I have no problem with pulling them out of the museum and remeasuring the dimensions inside and out.
But I do have a problem with them firing them back up. These are the only examples we have left from that era.

What if they have an explosion during the test?
Would you take the Wright Flyer and push it off the edge of the Grand Canyon just to see if it flew better than the books said it did?

reply to post by samkent

(horrified look) OH GOODNESS... I didn't mean to suggest... Oh NO! Never would I want to see them use the actual original 1960's engines or even casings in modern testing, let alone use. You're absolutely right. That's all a part of Americana and National history. It would be just like taking the Wright Brothers prototype for a "spin". I shudder to even imagine...lol.

Could it be that difficult to use the old plans and spec sheets to recreate them? Actually, they wouldn't have to until they'd done all but the final testing runs, would they? Computer modeling and sim work these days makes most of the old testing a moot point on top of the data that does still stand from the early program, right?

You move the asteriod into an Earth orbit. Make the 100 or so trips up to it, to build your base. Then move it back out into position in space somewhere.
Cheaper and safer.