Ireland in 2013. No Country For Old Men.

Mods please move if this is in the wrong forum.
Following the posting of this thread about a home invasion. I thought I'd put together a little piece about 'The Emerald Isle' and its current most prolific growth industry, crimes against the elderly.

Now bear in mind that in Ireland we have an unarmed population, an unarmed police force (Garda), and an increasingly armed criminal underclass.

Here in Ireland the recession is having a sinister effect upon the elderly and most vulnerable in our society. What can only be described as an epidemic of home invasions specifically targeting elderly people often living alone in isolated areas has exploded. Bear in mind that we are a small country, with a large rural demographic, the population of our entire country comprises half the population of New York City, just to add perspective

The litany of crime against the vulnerable in recent months tells a grim tale. Maureen Kelly lives alone in a quiet rural area just outside Convoy, Co Donegal. She is 86 years old. Last week, at least three raiders stormed into her home and ransacked it, looking for cash and valuables. Just 72 hours earlier, 96- year-old Margaret 'Greta' Lilly needed hospital treatment after her home in Aghilly, Buncrana, was raided. The raiders punched and threatened the terrified woman. In Listowel, Co Kerry, a 90-year-old woman was discovered lying traumatised on the floor of her bedroom after raiders broke in during the dark of night, shouting at her to hand over money. The woman, who lives alone, was found lying on the floor of her bedroom in a state of shock the next morning.

independent.ie

These cowardly attacks have become so commonplace as to be barely newsworthy (dozens in the last three weeks alone) but their vicious nature and the despicable act of attacking old people unable to defend themselves has been facilitated by a judicial system that is a complete joke and our dear government's progressive policy of reducing the number of Garda (Police) stations in lower populated areas. Literally our countryside is at the mercy of travelling gangs of thugs who are operating with impunity and increasing levels of violence.

meanwhile, garda stations are closing their doors for the last time. In rural Limerick, Kilfinane, Kilmeedy, Tournafulla, Castletown, Conyers and Galbally stations will shut down. In Kerry last year Moyvane, Cloghane and Ballylongford were axed and now Brosna, Abbeydorney, Lauragh, Kilgarvan, Beaufort, Valentia, Camp, Ballinskelligs and Fenit are in the firing line. Five Tipperary stations – New Inn, Grangemockler, Terryglass, Rearcross, and Dundrum – are earmarked for closure this year. Three Kildare and two west Wicklow stations are for the chop as well as a significant number of closures in Galway and Mayo where some of the most violent crimes against the elderly have taken place. Leitrim stations are also being targeted. Among those that will close next year are nine in the Sligo, Leitrim district including the stations in 'In rural Ireland, there is a palpable anger that they have been simply abandoned'

independent.ie

A virtually zero police presence (the nearest cop may be an hour away if you are lucky and their understaffed officers aren't doing anything else) and a system whereby a criminal with over a hundred previous convictions can freely ply their trade unhindered by the threat of jail, if they are caught most serve minimum reduced sentences due to inadequate revolving door prison system, couple this with an unarmed population and this is a recipe for disaster.

In this country it is very difficult to obtain a firearm licence and most weapons including tasers are illegal. Indeed until 2010 it was mandatory for a homeowner to retreat if their home was invaded and confrontation of an intruder was punished by the courts. Even now confrontation of an intruder leaves you open to being charged with assault and potentially being prosecuted by the perpetrator. Lethal force may be used but only if your life is in danger which is a tough call to make. While this is a welcome change from the ridiculous retreat situation pre 2010 it is still a very grey area and fraught with pitfalls should a homeowner decide to defend themselves. Ergo the criminal targets those too old and weak to defend themselves.

The present debate in the US regarding gun ownership is interesting as many people are now seeing obtaining a gun as the only way to feel safe in their homes. The usual outcry against gun posession by a householder is shouted loudly here, mainly by people who do not live alone in isolated countryside, living in terror of every slight noise outside at night and have access to the police within an hour.

I myself live alone in a rural area and have been burgled previously, they beat my dog (in the countryside no one was around to hear him bark) and I was at work when my front door was kicked in luckily (for whom?) But I am reasonably fit with martial arts experience and many weapons at my disposal, no guns though, but if I could obtain a firearm I would and would not hesitate to use it on the next assh*le who kicked my door in. As it stands if someone enters my property without my permission, they better have told someone where they are, cause I ain't askin any questions first.

One exception was this one, where a 69 year old woman chased an intruder in his twenties from her home with an axe..

A BRAVE pensioner who chased a burglar with an axe was so alert gardai were able to arrest a suspect. The 69-year-old woman is the latest victim of aggravated burglary in Co Donegal. A man broke into her home 1km outside the village of Kilmacrennan at 3.45am yesterday, but by the time he entered her bedroom she had already called gardai. The burglar threatened her before taking her handbag and some medicines.

independent.ie< br />
But he will be out on bail next morning and if he does get any jail time it will be a few weeks maximum (broken home/drug dependency boo hoo) Literally in this country you can get caught doing this up to a hundred times without it really impacting your life in any signifigant way.
15 minutes alone in a cell with this scumbag would make me very happy indeed. These cowardly pondlife are only brave men when bullying grannies and old men in the dead of night and IMHO deserve no quarter.

TPTB are sacrificing the most vulnerable in our crumbling society to protect the bankers and feather the nests of our politicians. Our police force are overworked, overstretched and are increasingly being deprived of funds and resources by their political masters. Our old, sick and poor don't matter at all. And it's getting worse.

Ireland, once a country of welcomes friendliness and community is now No country For Old Men or Women

S+F

Thank you for the update on the current situation in Ireland. It's sad to hear. I've traveled all over Ireland and it's beautiful.

The anti-gun aussies and brits will avoid this thread like the plague.

That is one horror story for elderly people, poor Ireland I weep for you. You sound very brave and independent, it must be a huge worry for you that your country is heading down this path. Even more sad is that the rest of the world appears to be too. Its all propagated of course by the PTB, terror tactics of the most underhand kind to keep everyone in a constant state of fear and uncertainty. When I say everyone I mean those of us who still have
respect for life and a Soul to appreciate it. Fight the B..tards, never forget they are cowards and cowards will never win the World.

Where are your 'young' (an incredible broad term) hot/cold blooded people? can you please defend the elderly,
or I will never be able to come and have a drink with them or you,
and I've heard from a loved realtive they can drink with the best, she came home sobbing from the experience she was that worn out she loved all of you
Old mother and Old father stories are sacred, and private, may brave brothers and sisters who know how, please protect them.

A BRAVE pensioner who chased a burglar with an axe

Oorah!!!! ole father

reply to post by Carreau


Thats where you are wrong, I was anti - gun but I have changed my mind on this issue.
Something really stinks in the world right now and I believed we have been played into giving up our rights to the
invisible powers who seem to control every society in the world.
Doesn't matter where you live innocent people are being victimised. Around the corner from me, I have been told an elderly man was beaten and robbed in his own home, they have yet to find the culprits.
My parents are both in their eighties and I worry for them, I guarantee you that if someone harms my parents the law can go to hell and I wont need a gun.
All I would need is ten minutes with the scumbag and he wont need a jail cell later.
That is terrible news in Ireland, what is really going on and why doesn't society protect those who helped build their country while paying taxes.

Very sad to hear. Like you up until a few years ago I lived alone in an isolated part of West Cork, i must admit back then i felt very safe, but I see things have taken a change for the worse. In a fit of paranoia though I did make myself a sword at one time and used to keep it under the sofa... thankfully it just stayed there collecting dust.

Tiocfaidh ár lá

Originally posted by Carreau
S+F

Thank you for the update on the current situation in Ireland. It's sad to hear. I've traveled all over Ireland and it's beautiful.

The anti-gun aussies and brits will avoid this thread like the plague.

Thank you, it is a beautiful place and we'd like to keep it that way.
Ireland has had it's fill of guns and it has taken a lot of work to get where we are while putting the gun aside for dialogue. But I do believe that if you are the type of person (I don't consider them men) who thinks that it is ok to punch a 93 year old woman for a few measly banknotes then maybe a bullet would be a small investment for society.

Originally posted by Severin
Very sad to hear. Like you up until a few years ago I lived alone in an isolated part of West Cork, i must admit back then i felt very safe, but I see things have taken a change for the worse. In a fit of paranoia though I did make myself a sword at one time and used to keep it under the sofa... thankfully it just stayed there collecting dust.

Tiocfaidh ár lá

West Cork is such a beautiful place, got a puncture on my motorbike one stormy night on a mountain road on the way to Allihies, now that was an experience I won't forget!

A dusty sword is a sign of a peaceful life. Dusty is fine, rusty not so!

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
Where are your 'young' (an incredible broad term) hot/cold blooded people?

In Australia mainly,

due to incompetent Government and Bankers.
Seriously, it has been discussed here at length how a whole generation of young people have emigrated and the older generation and the very young are left behind.

reply to post by HumansEh


You're right, it is idyllic, but Allihies! That is one place you do not want to have a puncture

Originally posted by kudegras
reply to post by Carreau

 

Thats where you are wrong, I was anti - gun but I have changed my mind on this issue.
Something really stinks in the world right now and I believed we have been played into giving up our rights to the
invisible powers who seem to control every society in the world.
Doesn't matter where you live innocent people are being victimised. Around the corner from me, I have been told an elderly man was beaten and robbed in his own home, they have yet to find the culprits.
My parents are both in their eighties and I worry for them, I guarantee you that if someone harms my parents the law can go to hell and I wont need a gun.
All I would need is ten minutes with the scumbag and he wont need a jail cell later.

Agree with you 100%

That is terrible news in Ireland, what is really going on and why doesn't society protect those who helped build their country while paying taxes.

That's my point, the old , the sick and the vulnerable are being sacrificed upon the altar of capitalism and pure greed. Our politicians are among the best paid in Europe while taxes soar and services are slashed to pay for the mistakes of the Banks and an elite sector and society can go to hell. It's no different to what is happening elsewhere, divide and conquer pit citizen against citizen until nobody knows who the real enemy is.

what a pity the IRA disbanded, they used to keep this kind of criminal element under control.

i mean, its great the bombings stopped.. but .. well you get what im saying.

the Yakuza in japan performed a similar policing role until the establishment of imperial police departments and military

Originally posted by okamitengu
what a pity the IRA disbanded, they used to keep this kind of criminal element under control.

i mean, its great the bombings stopped.. but .. well you get what im saying.

the Yakuza in japan performed a similar policing role until the establishment of imperial police departments and military

Actually you are not the first person to say that but, its alittle more complicated than that. The IRA to quote a serving politician 'Haven't gone away you know!' but the IRA that you are speaking of were more of a political organisation than the current crop of IRA wannabees that exist at the moment.

The present incarnations are more criminal gangs themselves than political idealists. They realised that it was far more to extort money from criminal gangs/drug dealers for protection than to go up against them wrapped in a flag.
So in fact they are now part of the problem rather than a solution but I have heard older people in pubs (where else!) lament the demise of local IRA brigades who kept anti-social behaviour under control.
But now it seems that if you can afford it you can be as much of a scumbag as you like. I have generalised a lot there but you get my drift

***Update***

What are the chances? I posted this thread yesterday and woke up to this headline this morning. It seems things are moving at last. If you follow the link I recommend reading the comments section to get a feel for how the Irish public feel on this issue.

Judge Tells Victims of Crime: Use Lethal Force On Raiders,

It seems that we have finally gotten a Judge who is on the side of the citizenry at last.

AN OUTSPOKEN judge has told homeowners to use "maximum force" against burglars, whom he described as "knackers". District Court Judge Geoffrey Browne made the strident comments after hearing the case of a publican who has been robbed three times in five months. Michael Masterson (69) suffered a heart attack and was hospitalised after raiders repeatedly targeted his Derreen Inn in Abbeyknockmoy, Co Galway. Sentencing two burglars to jail, Judge Browne said: "It's time for more force to be used on these fellows. "Maximum force should be used," added the judge at Tuam District Court, before describing those who carry out such attacks as "knackers". Sympathising with the victim, the judge added: "I would like to say he should protect himself using other resources than a hurley stick." The judge's comments come during a rural crimewave, with raiders targeting the elderly and vulnerable in particular.

It is the ridiculously light sentences and multiple conviction rate that has gotten law abiding citizens up in arms (literally) In Ireland when you receive a jail term you are automatically entitled to one quarter (25%) remission even before your sentence starts. this is standard and varies country to country but our light a nd incoherantsentences make a mockery of the practice.
This means that if you are sent down for twelve months in Ireland before you have your first meal inside your sentence is reduced to nine months maximum. Keep your head down and due to chronic overcrowding you will be out in four months often with a newly aquired drug habit (Irish prisons are awash with heroin) and a whole new cadre of like minded criminal friends to meet up with on the outside. Irish prison system is a criminal university where you can pick up an array of skills to further your careerupon release.

Something's gotta give.

Originally posted by Carreau
S+F

Thank you for the update on the current situation in Ireland. It's sad to hear. I've traveled all over Ireland and it's beautiful.

The anti-gun aussies and brits will avoid this thread like the plague.

Not me.. Not long ago in our country we didn't even have a legal definition for "Home invasion". After the gun ban, this method of crime spiked in Australia also and guess what, the elderly were the targets.



Easy pickings for the one who couldn't care about laws in the first place.

There's enough guns on this island already, maybe you need to lay off smoking the wacky if you think we need more.
You make a good argument for social reforms and more funding to the Gards, thats about it.
Unless you just wanted to create a thread pandering to all the American gun lunatics?

reply to post by okamitengu


Know many victims of these scum do you? you do realise it is these scum who would be supplying the guns?

I have noticed in the last 10 years that our country has become more and more violent and disrepectful. Once upon a time here the elderly were treated with respect and people treated each other like brothers and now Ireland has turned into a nation of "have nots" that would step on their own grandmother just to get one up on the next person. There is people living in fear and too afraid to stand up for themselves but I can tell for one that I am not one of those people. If any scumbag tried to enter my home they would get a shock and wouldn't be leaving unless they were in a box. I take care of my own be it family or friend and I urge others to do the same when they see the criminal element here victimising innocent people because the next victim could be YOUR mother or father.

We are a nation that has proven that we can stand up and fight back.... Now lets show it.

Originally posted by biggilo
There's enough guns on this island already, maybe you need to lay off smoking the wacky if you think we need more.
You make a good argument for social reforms and more funding to the Gards, thats about it.
Unless you just wanted to create a thread pandering to all the American gun lunatics?

Well exactly, this is the thing.... you don't want to go down the US route.
So if everyone of these pensioners or people living alone had guns... then instead of being punched in the face and robbed, they would be shot... and probably killed.

If you have GANGS of thugs going around with guns, what do you think one 90 year old person is going to do against these gangs?


Guns are not the answer.

Reversing the policing cuts and tackling the underlying issues is the ONLY way to sort this out.... not giving everyone guns.

reply to post by HumansEh


S and F this is an excellent thread and one of the saddest I have read. My family [ or 1/4 of them ] are Irish and the reason I am English [ the rest of me] is because even in the 20th century the rural Irish had to emigrate to prosper. My irish family moved to America and England - leaving their parents and grand parents.

So the more things change the more they stay the same.

Why don't the village people protect their most vulnerable ? Surely there are some younger people who can come up with a system, whereby if someone is threatened they can be alerted ?

I believe the same is happening in England to some degree,.. but obviously most people do not live in such rural isolation as they do in Ireland. I hate cowards and bullies - the should have the book thrown at them and life imprisonment - that may deter them ?

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by HumansEh

 

Why don't the village people protect their most vulnerable ?

They were sadly ineffectual.
(sorry couldn't resist it!)

But seriously, these are not random opportunistic attacks, They are well planned to occur when the person is alone and at their most vulnerable. People including women call to an elderly person with fake id claiming to be from the health board ("oh your regular health visitor is ill so here I am") electricity/gas, and gain entry to rob by those means. It is impossible to police everywhere at the same time. It is just that they are such cowardly and violent acts that is disgusting. The attack is often very swift and can be over in a matter of minutes, but take a lifetime for the elderly victim to get over, if ever.
A very dangerous aspect is that the old person is often locked in a room or shed after the robbery with no communication or sustenance and must wait to be discovered by someone which could be hours or even the next day. The fear factor must be immesurable.

Surely there are some younger people who can come up with a system, whereby if someone is threatened they can be alerted ?

Vigilante groups would feel the full force of the law upon their heads. To underestimate the level of how our rural communities (where there were few jobs anyway) have been decimated by emigration would be foolish. There is hardly a family in Ireland who have not had a member or a friend emigrate out of this hole in the past few years.
Rural communities often consist entirely of older people as all the young have gone.

Also many rural old people benefit from a personal alarm scheme whereby a panic button is installed or a panic bracelet/pendant can be used to alert a relative/neighbour in case of emergency.
In their wisdom and being total assh*les the government recently announced cutbacks and cut the budget that subsidised these alarms for the elderly (yes I know!)
Thankfully after a huge public outcry they were forced to scrap this piece of inspired governance.
independent.ie
But it just goes to show you that the government couldn't give a toss about the plight of the elderly.

That was why I made this thread, not to advocate guns nor vigilante justice but to highlight the fact that our government are a bunch of self serving w*nk*rs who have failed our people sold out our country and especially fail our old and vulnerable.