Religious Zealotry and its Inherent Hypocrisy Towards Masonry

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
You cannot tell people not to speculate when you keep things secret.

Never told anyone not to speculate. You can't tell people not to comment on your speculation when you've made it public.

So to do freemasons with their secret rituals.

Masonic ritual isn't actually secret.

If someone is a Freemason or has been, thats credentials enough to me.

So if some guy on YouTube claims to be a Freemason, not only this claim but any others built on it are unassailable, but if a line of card-carrying Masons forms around the block to say he's full of it, they can't be trusted?

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
They worship Lucifer...

Lucifer is a made up Christian entity who you are more likely to be worshipping than me since I do not believe in such superstitious nonsense.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


You asked questions, I answered. Whether I am right or wrong was not the demand you provided. Was this a post to bait people in??? I'm kind of sensing that and that's really distasteful, but anyway. You're right, I'm wrong, you do your thing, I'll do mine whilst I not hold my breath for Masonry to "try" and make the world a better place, as big and as old as it is, we ought to be seeing some of the results of that far fetched claim by now, but i guess...sitting on a forum and baiting opposing views with empty questions is about the best some of you can do. Sigh...

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Mark's father and uncle went to a "Catholic" boarding school paid for by the Freemasons--odd since the outward Catholic Church condemn Masonry.

Of course, no evidence is provided.

Mark’s grandfather was a Freemason in an aristocratic white lodge in Calcutta where many other VIPs were members.

It's important to note here that the "white lodge" Cleminson prattles about is meaningless in terms of Masonic ritual.

Mark’s father also indicated that his maternal grandmother was rumored to have ties into the Salvation Army.

I don't see the relevance.

I of course see from my point of view. I am speculating. Ive already stated this. Why should I believe someone who does secret rituals? Forget about it. I dont. Because your for the " team" .

I can trust freemasonary family members, but I dont probe them. I notice things, thats about all.

Yes, I do believe those who state they are ex-freemasons from television or christian sites. I believe alot of ex- religious folk ingeneral. I find them fascinating, they got out and have something to say. Thats their right. Do they have to give details? I dont think so. You dont give details of every ritual so why should the .

Nope, Lucifer isnt my guy.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Its usually the Christian converts or as the title says " the zealots " who make these claims openly.

Or as I call them, liars.

I wonder if Jesus would want his converts fabricating stories just to prove a point.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
But for the record, for other readers anyway, I actually do care and am not as close minded as you might think in fact I'm very open to discussions from those who defend Freemasonry and those who oppose it and both sides. It's not a complicated matter, you present your side and view, I present mine and we learn from each other and at least respect with differ.

You're not doing this, though. There's a dispute of whether or not your characterization of Freemasonry is correct, but your only concern seems to be that I'm calling your view of Freemasons arrogant.

If you're a Freemason. You are just terrible at presenting it in a "good" "brotherly" "trying to better the world" manner, you might do well to work on those attributes before opting to make Freemasonry look worse, as you have today. Just sayin...

edit on 23-1-2013 by HoneyBe because: (no reason given)

Frankly, you've already so wrong about Freemasonry, and so obstinate about staying that way, that I'm not sure I'm concerned with your opinion of me.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
we ought to be seeing some of the results of that far fetched claim by now

Here you go.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
...we ought to be seeing some of the results of that far fetched claim by now...

Research the Shriner's Hospitals for Children. They treat all children. For free.

Originally posted by KSigMason


reply to post by HoneyBe

 

There is no brainwashing, that is a misconception of the teachings of Freemasonry.

Nor can Freemasonry be a religion as it does not meet the basic requirements to be a religion.

We are the not the deceived.

If the world followed the teachings and practices of Freemasonry I doubt we'd go to war as often and I doubt we'd be in the cesspool culture we have today.

OK! Thank you for your response, I was really hoping to eventually get one

Why do you feel there is so much misconception out there with respect to Freemasonry? It really does just go on and on endlessly leading in circles and with no real door way for outsiders to enter to get further than that for which most of us see, read, hear, perceive. Why does not someone, anyone stand up to really defend these claims are not true and have the proof to back it up? I always wondered this!

What are the basic requirements for something to be considered a Religion?

If the world followed.......How can we???? You keep it to yourself and that is my main point! How can any group dare say they are doing this and that and the other and making or "trying" to make the world better but there is no proof at all, in fact there is more proof to state the exact opposite.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
I of course see from my point of view. I am speculating. Ive already stated this. Why should I believe someone who does secret rituals? Forget about it. I dont. Because your for the " team" .

Someone claiming to be a Freemason has an agenda of their own. There's a fair amount of money in telling people Freemasons are evil, and you don't even need original material.

Yes, I do believe those who state they are ex-freemasons from television or christian sites. I believe alot of ex- religious folk ingeneral. I find them fascinating

I find them endlessly fascinating. I've actually read Bill Schnoebelen's book. Doesn't make a word of it true, or excuse any factual errors he makes.

they got out and have something to say. Thats their right.

Once again, no one's trying to take that right from them. Nobody. However, once again, a parallel right exists to comment on, question, and ask for verification of what they have to say.

Do they have to give details? I dont think so.

So, in other words, you don't care whether they're lying through their teeth.

You dont give details of every ritual so why should the [sic].

I'll be happy to produce every detail I'm asking of them should the request arise, with only minimal revision for personal privacy.

lol freemasonary is no way on the level of Jesus or Christianity.
Your just guys in aprons in back rooms doing weird things.

Jesus had courage, he was outspoken, he didnt hide anything, he was what he was " take me or leave me" - I admired that about him. If more people were brave in the face of corruption and honest souls, the world would be a better place. If most had his wisdom and soul, desire to bridge differences, then we would be in another world. The fact is we arent.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213


I'm actually kind of done with you, or so I thought from my last response. You certainly are not "on the level". You keep picking and dicing my words and then twisting them to mean something completely different to what I mean. So between the two of us...it is not good to continue discussing at all. I'm here to learn, I'm here to share my point of view(as the OP asked) and I'm also here to listen- provided you can talk to me and not at me.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
Why do you feel there is so much misconception out there with respect to Freemasonry?

1) Organizations desiring control have always hated Freemasonry, which encourages individual thought, and will latch onto any claim they can find. This creates a market for opportunistic frauds.
2) People who find a conspiracy theory necessary generally will accept whatever claims are necessary to back it up. This gives lies, even when revealed as such (and even when confessed as such), a long, long shelf life.

Why does not someone, anyone stand up to really defend these claims are not true and have the proof to back it up? I always wondered this!

Look up Devil Worship in France or Is It True What They Say about Freemasonry?; both are freely available online. Check out Masonicinfo.com. Lies are debunked all the time; it's just that those who would believe them don't care.

What are the basic requirements for something to be considered a Religion?

Obviously, this will differ person to person. My answer: an organization built around a very specific system of thought regarding the nature of God and/or the purpose of life.

[qutoeIf the world followed.......How can we???? You keep it to yourself and that is my main point!

Masonic ritual has been publicly available for roughly 300 years. Works on the philosophy of Freemasonry are equally available. Anyone who can't find Masonic literature or ritual hasn't tried so much as Googling it.

How can any group dare say they are doing this and that and the other and making or "trying" to make the world better but there is no proof at all, in fact there is more proof to state the exact opposite.

What "proof" exists that Freemasonry is making the world worse? I've offered evidence of the opposite.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
I'm actually kind of done with you, or so I thought from my last response.

If you're going to speak on this forum, I'm at liberty to respond.

You keep picking and dicing my words and then twisting them to mean something completely different to what I mean.

I've been begging you to tell me how I mischaracterized your argument at all, beyond calling it arrogant.

So between the two of us...it is not good to continue discussing at all.

You're free to think that, but if you make a point I disagree with I'm going to contest it...and if you make a point I agree with, I'll probably let you know that too.

I'm here to learn, I'm here to share my point of view(as the OP asked) and I'm also here to listen- provided you can talk to me and not at me.

Great. Let's get started: how is Freemasonry "brainwashing"? What, specifically, does Freemasonry teach against the beliefs of any of its members?

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
lol freemasonary is no way on the level of Jesus or Christianity.

Who said it was?

Your just guys in aprons in back rooms doing weird things.

Most of the rituals of Christianity can be similarly described.

Jesus had courage, he was outspoken, he didnt hide anything, he was what he was " take me or leave me" - I admired that about him.

Actually, Jesus frequently told people not to speak of His miracles, and openly admitted to the Apostles that they were being given His teachings in a different format from that with which He taught the masses.

Are you kidding? You seriously think Freemasonary is on the level of Jesus's teachings. Your dreaming.
Jesus may have kept secrets but his character was " out there" hence him being lynched. He was a sharer. Freemasons just keep to theirselves, invite who they know. Its all very cliquey.

Jesus's teachings were for the world. Freemasonarys teachings is for your " mates".

reply to post by OnTheLevel213


I will be back. It's late here and I'm tired but thank you for finally talking to me on the level, I'm really not as bad as you initially thought. I have always had a pull toward Freemasonry and have met many in my lifetime and married one. So I think I know a little, and then am sure I know a little more and then right back to square one again. I wish actually something would adhere, but I think with so much conspiracy tied around Freemasonry it's like an ancient spider web that would be difficult to remove without destroying the entire web.

Anyway, good night and I will read more into what you've provided tomorrow and try to behave myself in my responses, if any.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Freemasons just keep to theirselves, invite who they know.

In almost every jurisdiction it is against the rules to invite someone to join. Stop spreading falsehoods.

Freemasonarys teachings is for your " mates".

My 'mates' can join as long as they believe in God, are over 21 and have not been convicted of a crime.

Oh, and as to the secrets, you can find all of them in 5 minutes on Google.

Accusing me of spreading lies doesnt help and just goes to show that Freemasonary is not developing humble characteristics in its members - figures. Since Lucifer is your guide.