Religious Zealotry and its Inherent Hypocrisy Towards Masonry

We see who someone worships by their actions. Words mean different things to different people. If a muslim bombs a building - I wont say that he worships God - if God is intended to mean all that is good. No, Id say he worships some darker influence, I may even say Satan if I feel he was blinded by this.

Thats because I am coming from my own belief system.

Lucifer worshippers in my view often form occults, Golden Dawn, Knights Templar , skulls and bones and so forth I regard to also be Luciferians.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213


So the $2 million per day in charity doesn't count as fruit, the members among the most hallowed names in every field aren't fruit, but the less-than-patient response to being lied about and defamed, that's the fruit? That's what counts? I'm starting to wonder if your judgment should matter to me.

Money is fruits?? As far as I'm concerned, money is the root of all evil and it is not enough at all for anyone to believe the "giver" or organization is "good".

No, your character and your response in dealing with opposition is your fruit. If you are genuine and even passionate in defending anything, people are more likely to listen to you with respect and try to at least give your voice and reason a chance to change their mind. You definitely have no shown any of that toward me. I'm not in the spot light here, you are. When you make a topic about something I must defend, invite me and I will very gladly respond with manner and decorum, or surely try to, because I do not want to represent truth with a poor attitude and character.

If my judgment does not matter to you...then neither do I matter to you and so you will never get past that and all of your responses to me will be personal.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
We see who someone worships by their actions.

The problem starts when "their actions" becomes "anything negative anyone says about them without the slightest check for credibility".

Words mean different things to different people. If a muslim bombs a building - I wont say that he worships God - if God is intended to mean all that is good. No, Id say he worships some darker influence, I may even say Satan if I feel he was blinded by this.

Then how is it possible that Freemasonry is Luciferian when none of its own members believe so?

Thats because I am coming from my own belief system.

I guess I just don't understand how you can wholeheartedly believe a falsifiable thing and not care to verify it. Spiritual beliefs, I get. I'm a Christian; I understand faith. What I don't get is how you can tell me "Freemasonry is really evil because of what this one self-described ex-Freemason said" and not perform the slightest check for his credibility.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
reply to post by HoneyBe

 

I'm back and have read everything and I do not know if it's me, or some of the Freemasons responding here but I'm not seeing this debate going anywhere except circles. This is usually the case with this particular subject, but I thought I'd give it a go and see if someone would shock me or surprise me with their amazing way of eloquently and maturely debating and/or defending their fraternity. No one did and it's unfortunate that such negative responses come from what you all claim is such a benevolent fraternity. I am finished here. I came. I gave. I received nothing to remotely doubt what I believe about Freemasonry. *shrug*

I'll leave you with some wisdom...

"You will know them by their fruits"

Peace out Masons!

So to make a long post short, the gist of your reply is 'I'm not interested in answering. You guys haven't lived up to the lofty expectations I did not myself exemplify. I'm going to stalk off.'

That cover it? 'K. Tata.

Fitz

Aleicester Crowley, Quite a few presidents, the British Monarchs are/were Freemasons. They are primarily Materialists, this is why I think ritual is so important in Freemasonary. The acts are there as part of the matrix, to form a subtle brainwash technique that makes them believe they are improving. When really they are just as trapped as anyone else. Maybe if anything a tad escapist.

Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

Part of it, the blame is on the Secret Society it self. Which naturally since it´s a secret society cannot reveal all of their secrets. Otherwise wouldn´t be a Secret society at all. Thus leading to speculative theories etc, which may or may not be true.

Peace

The 'secrets' haven't been secret in pushing three centuries. They've been freely available in published form and now with the advent of the Internet you can access them from the comfort of your home. If you don't know the secrets of Masonry it isn't because they're unavailable.

Fitz

We are offering sources but you are not LISTENING. Maybe this is part of your brainwash not to listen. We KNOW freemasons intimately,personally, we have sources legit sources of people who were ex freemasons, some of us have read about freemasonary by freemasons.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213


By the way, "all my opponents in this debate are hopelessly brainwashed" is another supremely arrogant thing to say.

Back to this again...when you begin to feel defeated is this what you resort to? In all honesty and off topic for one second here, anyone of us coming to share something we know and have experienced is a form or arrogance. And certainly to someone who opposes another person's view, will appear arrogant. So ok...I'm arrogant, so are you, so is this forum, Jesus was very arrogant, Hitler was arrogant too, Obama is real arrogant so was Gandhi and Mother Theresa, now some of the folks are good or their intent anyway was/is good, but it does not remove the fact they all believe(d) they had something unique to contribute to others to even change the world....talk about arrogance

I believe you're all brain-washed and until you can prove to me otherwise...I will continue to believe that.


I kind of like being called "supremely arrogant" I think that's quite a compliment.

Originally posted by HoneyBe

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by HoneyBe

 

As are the self proclaimed "Christians" who come here to inform us whom we "really" are worshiping.

Do you like to be told when you pray to God, you are actually praying to the Devil, or some other evil entity? Feel free to read a few threads here to fully understand the reason this thread was created.

Well...Christians have every right to defend who or what they worship, they have proof beyond proof and have faith beyond faith (speaking on behalf or true Christians)

Christians have a Book they follow as their guide and their truth which ultimately is their reason for being labeled "Christians"

OK...so where is your proof that you do follow THE God?

I personally don't think you're all in tune with one another because one Freemason will state firmly Freemasonry is not a Religion, but what you've just written as many do...shows that it is. Do you see how this can confuse a non-mason? I'm not even too sure most Freemason's really even know what Freemasonry IS. So it's hard to debate with a non-mason without enough evidence in yourself that what you know and believe is really what you "know and believe"

Each mason has their own religion. They come to masonry as Christians, as Muslims, as whatever "tag line" they adopted from their church. They don't renounce their church when they become masons.

You want proof that I follow God? Are you serious? How about you prove to me that you aren't a card carrying Satanist who eats kittens and puppies?

Do you fell that Christians have the right to defend themselves, but also have the right to attack other groups with falsehoods? If Jesus Christ was in front of you right now, how would you answer that?

You have some serious double standard issues. Please seek help.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
Money is fruits??

As far as I'm concerned, money is the root of all evil

But that's not what the Bible says. The Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. Money's just a tool.

Love money or hate it, it's how things get done in this world. That an organization so freely gives it, and in such numbers, was one of the first things that impressed me. You're of course free to feel otherwise.

No, your character and your response in dealing with opposition is your fruit.

Well, I guess now you know: Freemasons are people (or certain people are Freemasons) who get upset when lied about and condescended to.

When you make a topic about something I must defend, invite me and I will very gladly respond with manner and decorum, or surely try to, because I do not want to represent truth with a poor attitude and character.

I'll be sure to trot out tired, debunked accusations, call you brainwashed, too. And then I'll attack your character if you don't respond with a positively angelic attitude.

Hey no double standards here. Its very clear the s hite that Christians get up to at times. But its also clear to see the s hite that masons get up to, or muslims or satanists .. the list goes on.

Your human. Your faith in Freemasonary doesnt make you " special". Your knowledge of the world, of the self, isnt better than ours.

Not listening is a sign of being brainwashed. Women that are battered dont listen to people other than the one who batters them. ( Not saying physical abuse happens in your lodges, or what ever ) What I mean is not trusting others is a sign of being duped into a system of thinking. So suggest you open your ears and accept others points of view.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
We are offering sources but you are not LISTENING.

You have offered two. One stated the exact opposite of what you assumed it did, the other was completely unverifiable.

We KNOW freemasons intimately,personally,

Hearsay is not a source.

we have sources legit sources of people who were ex freemasons,

Legit to you means "willling to say they were ex-Freemasons". Forgive me if my standards are a little more strict.

some of us have read about freemasonary by freemasons.

Now we're getting somewhere. Respond with some quotes and we can continue productively.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Quite a few British Royals have been/are Freemasons.

Un huh.....and?

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
That isnt to say that " most" masons are corrupt.

Well that's a relief. You had me worried there.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
I think on the contrary. I believe there are very many upstanding masons. But you are Jotas. Why do you think the Royals have now teamed up with the Jewish kate middleton?.

I dunno but I get the feeling you're going to impart the full broadside of your wisdom

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Your practices stem from King Solomon and the occultic side of Judaism . You are Luciferians primarily. But probably do not realise it.

Well TYVM for the depth of your insight. I shall give it its due regard

Fitz

Originally posted by network dude


Do you fell that Christians have the right to defend themselves, but also have the right to attack other groups with falsehoods? If Jesus Christ was in front of you right now, how would you answer that?

To answer your questions. Yes of course, I would not deny anyone the right to defend themselves. And no, I do not think we should attack one another, but it happens...we have to be strong enough in our personal beliefs to deal with the attacks, that is a big part of Jesus' teachings. When we come under attack for what we believe, it's not always our answers but our WAY of dealing with the attacker and that was my point regarding Freemasonry and how poorly you all deal with being attacked thus how poorly you end up defending any truth there, even if there is one. Jesus Christ, I pray is always present with me, in my mistakes, my errors, my sinning and my worst moods, hopefully to help me learn better as well in how to deal with certain situations, such as...well, this one right here.

You have some serious double standard issues. Please seek help.

Seek help where? If you see something wrong with me, I welcome you to assist me in being right (according to you) since evidently you must be sharp enough to know me well enough after what...2 day's and a few replies to tell me to seek help.

Originally posted by HoneyBe
Back to this again...

Well, you've never left it.

when you begin to feel defeated is this what you resort to?

I don't feel defeated in the slightest. Frankly, I don't even feel you've engaged me.

In all honesty and off topic for one second here, anyone of us coming to share something we know and have experienced is a form or arrogance. And certainly to someone who opposes another person's view, will appear arrogant.

No. Honest disagreement is fine. What you're doing is saying that I disagree with you not because I've come to different conclusions but because my mind is under someone else's control. You're saying that the people who disagree with you don't have minds of their own. That is arrogant.

now some of the folks are good or their intent anyway was/is good, but it does not remove the fact they all believe(d) they had something unique to contribute to others to even change the world....talk about arrogance

Talk about straw men.

I believe you're all brain-washed and until you can prove to me otherwise...I will continue to believe that.

So in addition to arrogance, you don't understand debate.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

 

This is a fine theory. Unfortunately, it's very rare that people actually ask an unloaded question. There are very few secrets in Freemasonry, and none of them are of importance outside it. People just assume they can't find anything out and proceed from there.

It's very 9/11 'truther'-ish in its approach to 'knowledge'. Formulate an hypothesis and then go in search of corroborating 'evidence' ignoring anything that puts the lie to your 'hypothesis'. Kind of anti-intellectual that way

Fitz

Originally posted by HoneyBe
evidently you must be sharp enough to know me well enough after what...2 day's and a few replies to tell me to seek help.

For the record, you made an extraordinarily specific psychiatric diagnosis of every Freemason you've ever met in your first post on this thread.

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213


I'll be sure to trot out tired, debunked accusations, call you brainwashed, too. And then I'll attack your character if you don't respond with a positively angelic attitude.

Oh I can't wait!!

By the way I wrote it is my personal view that money is the root of all evil, I did not use the Bible there FYI. I agree though, the love of money is the root of all evil (as the Bible teaches us) And your earlier response was an attempt to impress me, or someone or boast that Freemasonry donates 2mil to charities. If the best anyone can do is boast with how charitable they are by throwing money here and there, then it goes back to the Biblical passage that you're using money as a means to say you love.

There was a Freemason on yesterday who had responded in a dignified manner with respect, I would listen to him. But you and me seriously....we not good for debates about this stuff. *sigh*

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

This is a fine theory. Unfortunately, it's very rare that people actually ask an unloaded question.

Yes. As i said on my previous post, part of it, the blame is on the Secret Society it self. As you stated yourself, rarely someone would ask an unloaded question. Why is that ? It´s because a Secret society cannot reveal all of it´s secrets. How can you expect, someone to ask an unloaded question, since only a certain amount of information is avaliable ? . Based on that, most, if not all of the questions, would be a mix of truth and speculative facts.

There are very few secrets in Freemasonry, and none of them are of importance outside it.

And this is how it starts. Based on that statement i have two options. The first option is that i take your word for it, and assuming that these few secrets, are on operational level, which outside of the secret society is of non importance. The second option would be to assume, that you cannot tell me those few secrets because you are hiding something under the disguise that those secrets are of not importance. I mean since those secrets are of non importance after all, why they cannot be disclosed ? . I hope you understand where i am getting it.

People just assume they can't find anything out and proceed from there.

And as i said before, and forgive me for repeating my self, part of it, the blame is on the Secret society itself. Otherwise wouldn´t be a Secret Society.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon

The 'secrets' haven't been secret in pushing three centuries. They've been freely available in published form and now with the advent of the Internet you can access them from the comfort of your home. If you don't know the secrets of Masonry it isn't because they're unavailable.

Fitz

If i put my conspirative hat, i can say this is the information that you want us to believe. I hope you understand what i am try to say. But we are drifting from the thema. Is it really only "Religious Zealotry" behind ? Wouldn´t be fair to say that part of it, the blame is on the secret society it self ?

Peace

Originally posted by HoneyBe
Oh I can't wait!!

You might have to. I get the feeling we disagree about far less than it seems.

By the way I wrote it is my personal view that money is the root of all evil, I did not use the Bible there FYI.

Fair enough. Maybe I gots me a thread to go start.

And your earlier response was an attempt to impress me, or someone or boast that Freemasonry donates 2mil to charities.

Not necessarily to impress, just to show you that there are other, far larger sources of data out there.

If the best anyone can do is boast with how charitable they are by throwing money here and there, then it goes back to the Biblical passage that you're using money as a means to say you love.

That's not what the Bible says about "the love of money". The love of money is expressed by keeping it to oneself. You don't give away things you love.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a bigger believer in love than in money. Love heals lots of things. Sadly, medical issues usually aren't one of them. For those, you need hospitals, research, logistics. For those, you need money.

There was a Freemason on yesterday who had responded in a dignified manner with respect, I would listen to him.

And he agreed that your response was arrogant.