Religion, Faith & Theology

reply to post by Joecroft


Again, reminding the participants of the speculative nature of the topic.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Let's see if I got this straight: you want the ATS staff to stop the skeptics from questioning the believers on any threads not specifically intended for doing so?

The defeats the purpose of this entire site.


Without discussion between opposing viewpoints, the same old subforum broken records will continue to rehash boring ideas because there's no friction to light the fires of epiphany. Confrontation, when controlled, is a very effective tool.

I think your missing the bigger picture here; Believers discussing topics with other believers, are not always in agreement with each other, which lights the “fires of epiphany”, that you mentioned above. The Key factor here, is that they accept the starting premise of “God existence”, and are therefore able to discuss further, other avenues of their disagreement etc…

If non-believers are constantly coming onto threads, to remind the participants of the “speculative nature of the topic.” As you put it, (especially where huge popular topics are concerned, i.e. God and UFO’s) then they are not helping the flow of that discussion.

Also, if God is real (And I’m taking the neutral stance for a moment, to make my point), then the people making these constant “in your face reminders”, are certainly not helping to deny ignorance IMO, and not only that, there are other specific threads, out there, that allow ignorance to be denied, in that area.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
I don't agree with what you're saying here. I understand the need to keep topics from derailing early on due to questioning fundamental elements, but such consequences show how uncertain the subject material is. It's an excellent reminder to not take anything as fact within that genre of discussion. It keeps in mind that the entire thing is speculation only.

Yes, but such reminders, on topics, which are discussed regularly!, like God and UFO’s etc, are just not needed IMO, and if they are needed, then, like I said above, this can be done on separate threads, specifically catered towards that argument.


- JC

"You don't believe in my God so you should have no voice"

Thanks OP!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Let's see if I got this straight: you want the ATS staff to stop the skeptics from questioning the believers on any threads not specifically intended for doing so?

The defeats the purpose of this entire site. Without discussion between opposing viewpoints

The "Theology" section is for discussion of views within the context of "theology", NOT non-theism.

Get it?

Prolly not.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Question religion all you want.
Even if you are unwilling to change your position, just try avoiding walking into a thread, making a witty one-liner...

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by grainofsand

 

Stuff like that just makes me so eager to consign my soul to that god's will, right?

/sarcasm.

edit on 22-1-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Thanks for providing the kind of "one liner" that the OP is talking about.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

And shoehorning everyone that may not agree with one brand of religion as a non-theist is quite laughable.
If this applies to the religion section, then I think it should apply to all sections. No more "It's swamp gas obviously" posts allowed in the UFO forum for example

You know why this is such an issue? Because of the people who attack others. Whether that be athiests, christians, or pagans(like myself).

You want to move past those opening negative salvos? Stop denigrating other peoples faiths or lack thereof. Stop telling people they're going to hell because they don't ascribe to your particular flavor of religion. Stop telling people their deities are sky fairies. And start reporting everyone who does those things. Don't respond to them, just report them for derailing.

You know who is the source of the the conflict spoken of in the OP, judaic theists and athiests. Pick any thread like what you're talking about and one of those two will have started it and then proceeded to continue it for pages and pages. I think this says something, and I don't think I have to spell it out.



Perhaps what is really needed is a new rule set for the Religion, Faith and Theology forum like those of the Bully Pulpit. Perhaps then some of you would learn to be polite, and not denigrate others for their beliefs.

I really wish ATS would implement an ignore list feature so that drive-by trolls can be put on it. But I guess there are pros and cons to that.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

And shoehorning everyone that may not agree with one brand of religion as a non-theist is quite laughable.

If I did that your comment would apply.

But I didn't! That is if you read correctly.

Read correctly I was addressing non-theists SPECIFICALLY!

Get it?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

If this applies to the religion section, then I think it should apply to all sections. No more "It's swamp gas obviously" posts allowed in the UFO forum for example

I would agree with that.

I would be against all the haters doing drive-by one liners.

Originally posted by BlueMule
I really wish ATS would implement an ignore list feature so that drive-by trolls can be put on it. But I guess there are pros and cons to that.

We used to have one, but it was removed in 2010. Though I used it here and there, I appreciated the site more after it was gone -- I became good friends with a few of the people I might otherwise have ignored (or who would likely have ignored me, lol) and debating with them helped me to both broaden my worldview and hone my faith.

Trolls are easy to ignore manually, since they generally only stick around for one or two posts.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


How would one know? It could be an athiest dropping some hate on the bible, or it could be a pagan, or a jew, probably not a buddhist though. Most of the hate I have seen in the religion forum, is theist on theist. My god can beat up your god, my book will hurt more if I throw it at you kinda stuff.

There was a forum I participated on in the mid-90s that had a neat feature that dealt with trolls.

Three participants on the thread could hit a "ban from thread" button and have the drive-by trolls removed and banned from that thread.

It worked well.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

How would one know?

If the shoe fits, wear it.

If you are not a non-theist, then it does not apply to you.

See how easy that is?

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


I am a bit of a hippy, I like sandals and barefoot better
I can see it now though, if we implemented the three people ban from thread idea. Poor phage would be banned from everywhere

reply to post by optimus primal

You know why this is such an issue? Because of the people who attack others. Whether that be athiests, christians, or pagans(like myself).

You want to move past those opening negative salvos? Stop denigrating other peoples faiths or lack thereof. Stop telling people they're going to hell because they don't ascribe to your particular flavor of religion. Stop telling people their deities are sky fairies. And start reporting everyone who does those things. Don't respond to them, just report them for derailing.

All of the thread examples I posted in the OP pertain to a very specific religious subject. Many of those religious views were not even aligned to mine. But overall, they are religious subjects... intended towards religious posters... and were not intended to denigrate anybody. Much like how UFO threads are intended towards other believers in UFO's... so for a non-believer in UFO's to go in there and post ridicule is rather rude, don't you think?

The problem is with non-believers who show up, make a comment mocking the basic premise of God and religion and move on.

Yes, there are threads started by Christians that denigrate what I believe in. Sometimes there is something being said which I don't believe in. But I don't just go in there and dismiss the OP with a one-liner. I believe in articulating my points... explaining why I believe they are wrong. I make references to their own scriptures and to history. Non-believers are most welcome to do that. It will simply result in a productive discussion even if nobody changes their stance on the subject.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Dear sk0rpi0n,

I believe I have made it quite clear that I am a Christian and have had to endure the things you have mentioned. Still, the idea of blocking people from threads disturbs me and would likely have the opposite effect that you wish. Non-believers would simply begin blocking believers threads if given the chance or blocking specific believers from participating. I hope you understand that there is a small group of non-believers that attack believers in a coordinated approach and discuss things behind the scenes.

The truth is that most non-believers don't bother with spiritual threads and most believers don't bother with threads on how God is a fairy tale. I worry about an internet where we limit speech based on friendliness or whether or not we like someone. Lets face it, we all know who the real jerks are and most of us learn to ignore the fly by statements.

reply to post by AQuestion

I believe I have made it quite clear that I am a Christian and have had to endure the things you have mentioned. Still, the idea of blocking people from threads disturbs me and would likely have the opposite effect that you wish. Non-believers would simply begin blocking believers threads if given the chance or blocking specific believers from participating. I hope you understand that there is a small group of non-believers that attack believers in a coordinated approach and discuss things behind the scenes.

I'm not suggesting we start blocking people in any way. Just calling for an evaluation of the state of the Religion and Faith section.

You know, there is lot to be learned from the spiritual nature of mankind, there is a lot more to the religious text on this planet then just religious belief, if people would only dig a little deeper, sometimes I wonder if refusal to accept any sort of god belief is also driven by fear.

The topic of the Virgin Mary is a prime example of how deep one can go in examining the hidden mysteries/gems.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


Yes, there are threads started by Christians that denigrate what I believe in. Sometimes there is something being said which I don't believe in. But I don't just go in there and dismiss the OP with a one-liner. I believe in articulating my points... explaining why I believe they are wrong. I make references to their own scriptures and to history.

What you are talking about doing is engaging in dialogue. Most people, regardless of their religious views embrace respectful dialogue. I know I do.

However, I have little patience and no respect for empty headed trolls who toss out hateful, ignorant one liners which are nothing but spoiled rotten, resentful, envious, bitter brats looking to spew venom on the internet because they don't have the guts to start a real fight in real life, knowing they would get their fanny kicked.

They are cowards.