U.S Navy minesweeper stuck on Phillipine reef : 'Ignored warning'

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Hm, this is reminding me of the old joke about the Naval vessel vs. the lighthouse.

As stated above, this has been determined to be a joke and not based on any factual occurence.

This is based on an actual radio conversation between a U.S. Navy
aircraft carrier (U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln) and Canadian authorities
off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. (The radio
conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on
10/10/95 authorized by the Freedom of Information Act.)


Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to
avoid collision.

Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the
North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15
degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again,
divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND
LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE
ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS
SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES
NORTH--I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH--OR
COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

Just a poignant thought here for rumination.....
"You dont suppose this is anywhere near the area of the south pacific that the NK space launch vehicle landed do you?"
I cant think of much that is important enough to risk such a ship to the vagaries of the shallows......
But that launch vehicle would be very interesting to the right people id think.....
just sayin

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
As a Captain myself, something is not right here.

1. A Captain NEVER ignores restricted zones, datum depths or deviations from passage plans (unless drunk or preoccupied by a fine female)
2. He is responsible for his vessel and her manoeuvres - not the "US Embassy".

Therefore , I say with all conviction that he was ordered to that area by his superiors, and probably did so under protest.

Be very careful in demonizing the Captain and his crew - something is seriously wrong with this scenario. We are not being told the full story

edit on 21-1-2013 by Sublimecraft because: (no reason given)

I concur. Although I have met my fair share of "Maverick" Captains when I was in the Navy, not a single one would ignore a warning about an imovable object like a reef. If he was there it was for a reason that is not being disclosed.

Like you, I say the story is only half told at this point.
-----------
Now to speculate... we know these waters abound in pirates. They may have been in pursuit of some of these, and considered the warning a ruse by paid of officials in order to stop the chase. That's my theory fo now.

Yeah right. The US Navy doesn't get stuck on reefs. That only happens in the movies. I looked over the news report, but I don't believe it for a second.... nudge, nudge, wink, wink

Location of US Fleet

U.S. Navy Commander Apologizes

China is having enough internal issues with Western influence.

Philippines Taking S. China Sea Fight to Tribunal

Separately, the Philippines announced Tuesday that it would formally challenge China’s claims in the South China Sea before a United Nations tribunal

China's Game Plan in Southeast Asia

This is a stalling tactic to bring in more equipment without causing a fuss. Additional fleet members would immediately cause an issue. So they are more likely installing the equipment on the ocean floor.

reply to post by CodeRed3D


It happens to the best Navy in the world:
uk.reuters.com...

Incidentally, that captain was promoted a few months after the incident.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Oh man, almost fell out of my chair laughing at the conclusion of your excerpt.

Reminds me of a pod of whales that will beach themselves at the behest of the alpha.

Also Don Quixote

Originally posted by ed1320
How is it irrepairable damage them shipyards can fix her right up in no time. As for the reef there is a time to reap and a time to sow everything will be ok. He just curbed it no harm no foul. Please dont forward to Greenpeace.

Maybe someone should forward it to Greenpeace because one of there ships ran into the same reef in 2005.
www.greenpeace.org...

I know one group that wont be laughing and it's the us taxpayers who will be footing the 12,000 per meter of coral affected bill for this.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Hm, this is reminding me of the old joke about the Naval vessel vs. the lighthouse.

As stated above, this has been determined to be a joke and not based on any factual occurence.

This is based on an actual radio conversation between a U.S. Navy
aircraft carrier (U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln) and Canadian authorities
off the coast of Newfoundland in October, 1995. (The radio
conversation was released by the Chief of Naval Operations on
10/10/95 authorized by the Freedom of Information Act.)


Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to
avoid collision.

Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the
North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15
degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again,
divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND
LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE
ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS
SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES
NORTH--I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH--OR
COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.

edit on 22-1-2013 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

Fake or Not its still pretty funny and points to the arrogance of the "US Military & government" (note not the normal people) I don't have to move, the world shall move for me.

bet Russia and China are having a good laugh

reply to post by 12voltz


Yea, I don't understand why they ignored the warnings either. You'd think they would have, but that's just the Military for you....................

manilastandardtoday.com...

The Tubbataha Management Office, which is charged with the protection of the reefs, said the USS Guardian did not have a permit to enter the park, and that the ship’s officers ignored marine park rangers when told that they were entering a protected area. When the rangers warned the ship’s officers that they would be boarding it, the ship’s crew took battle positions with their weapons, forcing the rangers to back off.

But the Palace insists there was nothing irregular in the USS Guardian’s actions, and that it was simply on its way to a port call in Puerto Princesa.

“There was a request made and the request was granted,” the Palace spokesman said, glossing over the fact that the US warship had no permission to enter the protected waters on its way to the port call.

Sounds like something pretty important was going on. A secret military operation in collaboration with the Philippine government perhaps? Just a few weeks back, a US navy "target" drone washed ashore along the coast of Masbate island, also in the Philippines.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

MANILA, Philippines -- An unarmed target drone found in central Philippine waters was launched from a U.S. Navy ship during a combat exercise off Guam last year and may have been washed by ocean currents to the country, officials said Tuesday. U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Bettina Malone said the BQM-74E drone was launched from the USS Chafee, a guided-missile destroyer, as a mock missile target during naval combat exercises off Guam's coast in September.

So apparently, the target drone had no surveillance capabilities and came all the way from a Guam exercise back in September 2012. Back in July 2012, off the west coast of Palawan island (in Half Moon Shoal near the disputed Spratly Islands), a Chinese navy frigate also ran aground and got stuck there for quite some time.


www.rappler.com...

MANILA, Philippines - The Chinese naval frigate stranded in Half Moon Shoal was rescued on Sunday, July 15, after the Philippine military had spotted a number of Chinese boats in the area. "Around 5am of July 15, the grounded frigate near Nansha’s Half Moon Shoal was refloated successfully, with minor damage in the stem part," said a statement posted on the website of the Chinese embassy in Manila.

There was talk of a small US command post being constructed somewhere in Palawan though. That was a year ago, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is one already in existence by now.

www.pacificnewscenter.com...:kyodo-us-marines-to-set-up-command-post-on-palawan-island-facing-s outh-china-sea&catid=45:guam-news&Itemid=156

Guam - Japan's Kyodo News Service is reporting that a contingent of U.S. Marines is planing to set up an "advance command post" on the Western Philippine island of Palawan facing the South China Sea. According to Kyodo, the plan calls for stationing 50 to 60 American marines on Palawan. The news agency quotes an un-named "senior Philippine marine officer". Construction on the command Post is slated to begin this month ahead of the annual Philippine-U.S. amphibious landing exercise in Palawan, reports Kyodo.

I have no doubt that a lot of undisclosed events and operations are going on in that area, as governments don't really report each and every detail to the public, for strategic and security reasons. One thing's for sure, these type of events contribute to more paranoia in the region.

Originally posted by CodeRed3D
Yeah right. The US Navy doesn't get stuck on reefs. That only happens in the movies. I looked over the news report, but I don't believe it for a second.... nudge, nudge, wink, wink

They don't?

gcaptain.com...

This was coming out of its home port, in a well known area. It did so much damage they tried to retire the ship.

reply to post by Dispo

A United States Navy investigation found that the grounding was caused by a combination of a misread navigation system, a sleep-deprived commanding officer, broken equipment, and an inexperienced and dysfunctional bridge team. The ship's commanding officer, John Carroll, was relieved of duty and disciplined. Three other officers and one enlisted sailor were also disciplined. The United States Navy reattached 5,400 coral colonies in an attempt to repair damage to the reef.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Navy has relieved captains, and fired captains for a lot less than running aground. They even prosecuted the captain of the USS Greenville after they rammed a Japanese training vessel off Honolulu.

Disrespectful to international law. It's a shame that it will take several years for corals in the Sulu Sea to recover. After all, it is declared a Heritage Site.

But, I do hope the Philippine government keeps this in mind that having "free" territorial help does not come cheap and that it is an expense incurred by the American people. I foresee the U.S. will be given time to investigate, extricating the ship and it's 56,000 liters of fuel, and pay a fine and.... that's it. All that we will hear about anyway.

reply to post by Dispo


Nope, If you run the ship aground, you're loosing your job. That's SOP. There will be a lot of people getting busted for that one, from the captain, to the Navigation Officer, even down to the E-3 on Fathometer Watch. Running a ship aground is not taken lightly.

Not sure why she ran aground, but, it was a stupid mistake.

All U.S. Navy ships have a Fathometer, a SONAR device that measures depth pretty accurately and is pretty dependable unless you're running 20+ Knots in deep water. Minesweepers don't go that fast. Also, they would have had that reef showing on their charts. The reef would have also been visible from the bridge. I can pretty much guarantee that there's no conspiracy here though. Just a lack of attention. Maybe they had a Fatho malfunction, but that's still no excuse.

The Minesweep i was on did not have a Fathometer and many navy ships that do do not use there's except entering or leaving port. we had a boatswain on the bow that would throw out a weighted line to find out how deep it was.

Why you ask .
Because it gives away the location of the ship to subs.
The Fathometer gives off pings that can be heard for miles by subs.

The Minesweeps in service now have the AN/SQQ-32(V)3 mine hunting sonar but it can only be used at less then 4 knots because it lowers from the bottom of the ship.
dc200.4shared.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by dave_welch


They were using electronic charts (damn you Apple Maps). the Navy had since ordered all electronic charts be verified with paper charts, if they aren't flat out replaced by paper charts until they figure out what happened for sure.

For those that ask why they did not see the reef
The Guardian drove onto Tubbataha Reef around 2:25 AM. on Jan. 17 with a 1/4 Waning Crescent moon that was just above the horizon.

and reefs do not show on radar.

Its dark out there

reply to post by ANNED


Fatho's don't give your location to a sub any more than any other sound the ship is making, I was a Sonar Tech, I can talk Sonar all day. The sound of a minesweeper is pretty damn loud.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Not too sure how it operates on Minesweepers, but every other naval vessel I've been on uses both. If it's the same on a Minesweeper, I'd say one of the OS's was asleep at the chart table.