I think I may have logically theorized there is an afterlife

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

A over active imagination of a deluded person.

People invent things that justify their beliefs all i time.... every creek in the floor or gust of wind turns into a ghost. Youll notice the majority of ghost hunters turn out to be FAKE or discover nothing other than hesitant farts, tree branches, or hand prints.

edit on 21-1-2013 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)

It is because of peoples imagination you actually have all you gadgets. Don't curse people for having a deep imagination. Science is not worth a damn thing without it.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

A over active imagination of a deluded person.

People invent things that justify their beliefs all i time.... every creek in the floor or gust of wind turns into a ghost. Youll notice the majority of ghost hunters turn out to be FAKE or discover nothing other than hesitant farts, tree branches, or hand prints.

edit on 21-1-2013 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)

Your knowledge on the subject is religious in nature
Religion annoys me.
Your response is based 100% in belief.
Belief is something I tend to reject in any acceptable model of reality.

I don't ask you to trust me...I personally don't care what you disbelieve based on your religion..go preach to someone who cares.


Now this is the part where you say you don't have a religion...but you do..maybe not in a specific deity, but you do believe yourself to have supernatural authority on a subject to fully dismiss everything and everyone whom experiences something different than your currently narrow view.
That to me..might as well shave your head and hit a tambourine at a airport...cultlike behavior mate.

Also you give nothing to the topic at hand...just your belief..just your religion...equally as annoying at the thumpers whom give up quotes without even caring what the topic at hand is. Simply unable to hear what is being said or realize they may not have all the answers.

Perhaps the most obvious evidence for an afterlife is that I exist now.

If I was constructed out of nothing, the fact that I will go back to nothing at death is no argument that it can't happen again.

Originally posted by VinceGG
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I proposed it that way because I didn't want to shove my thoughts down other people's throats by stating it as a matter of fact causing an argument. Its just how I viewed it and you're entitled to disagree which makes this a great place to have a discussion... or a forum

Please don't misunderstand. I find your OP very interesting. S&F It just struck my funny bone. It made me picture someone confidently standing before an audience and spewing rock solid facts, then ending with, "I think that maybe it might be, probably could be, I believe... LOL

Sadly, I can't come up with any evidence or rationality that would point to an afterlife. Quite the opposite, I can come up with all sorts of theories that point to there NOT being an afterlife.

And, the afterlife as described by believers is not an afterlife I would want to experience.

Originally posted by VinceGG
I felt it was important enough to not only search the forums for a similar theory, but to also spend an hour or so on the forums replying to threads I have previously read.

I would have to agree...

Especially if you look at one hour of time compared to an eternity outside of time.

"Dr. Rodonaia was killed by the KGB, pronounced dead, taken to the morgue for three days and returned to life during his own autopsy. Dr. Rodonaia was a psychiatric researcher who worked for the KGB and later became a dissident. He was a scientist trained in historical materialism and did not believe in God."

"George Rodonaia underwent one of the most extended cases of a near-death experience ever recorded. Pronounced dead immediately after he was hit by a car in 1976, he was left for three days in the morgue. He did not "return to life" until a doctor began to make an incision in his abdomen as part of an autopsy procedure. Prior to his NDE he worked as a neuropathologist. He was also an avowed atheist.

Atheist Psychiatrist Killed By KGB

Dr. George Rodonaia's Near Death Experience


Ian McCormack - Atheist's Life After Death


Ian McCormack - Atheist - Dead on Morgue Slab


To Hell and Back ATHEIST - Howard Storm


Three Atheists Died and Went to Hell


ATHEIST PROFESSOR IN HELL - Howard Storm


Ronald Reagan - An atheist saw Hell

I've posted this on this forum before so if it sounds familiar, that may be why.

I had the incredible experience of being 'visited' by my father at the exact time he had just breathed his last about 20 miles away. I 'felt' his presence in the room a moment before he entered my right temple, saying, "Wheeee! This is FUN!" And no, he didn't usually talk like that. The impact of his 'spirit' for lack of a better term, actually had mass. It hit me with the force of a small marble and felt about the same size, and I still have a burn mark on my temple from it, now about 15 years later. I got the call minutes later that he had just died; he had been in a coma for ten days and family was with him at the time.

His spirit and personality seemed to stay with me for several weeks to a couple of months, slowly fading out; for quite a while though, I had two personalities inside my head, his and my own.

I had to conclude after ruling out insanity, delusions, hallucinations, wishful thinking, etc, that he had given me quite the going-away present. Unfortunately, there's no way to prove it to anyone else, but we most certainly survive physical death, still retain our personalities and free will.

And just for the record, I'm an atheist. I don't believe in god, especially not that guy on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, and if anything, there may be a 'source' power akin to the laws of physics, but that's about it as far as my brain is concerned. I feel we are in our infancy on this planet and have no way of knowing the origins of the universe.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Your knowledge on the subject is religious in nature
Religion annoys me.
Your response is based 100% in belief.
Belief is something I tend to reject in any acceptable model of reality.

The sheer IRONY of fundamental atheists who label others as "religious" fanatics is incredible.

They are FAR more fanatical than any religious cult.

Atheism is an idiot's belief as much as any other religion is.

Why? Because it's a belief.

It's based on NOTHING factual.

Atheism is just another Illuminati mind control Religion with the same stealth agenda.

Atheism and religion are BOTH part of the SAME agenda.

Both are nothing more than stealth mind control tools.

So far as science can tell consciousness is linked directly to our
biology, a good example of this is Alzheimer's, by effecting your
biology you lose all sense of who you are and who others are,
also cases of extreme brain trauma also reinforce this, if who
we are was an energy and not our biology your idea would
have more credence to it. who we are stems directly from
our biology and not a hidden soul.

reply to post by Murgatroid


And again with the improper definition of atheism it is not a belief system,
if atheism is a belief system then bald is a hair color, atheism simply means
that we do not accept that god is real because there is no evidence to support
such a claim, it is abstinence from belief because of lack of evidence, do you
believe in the easter bunny? does that mean you have a belief system centered
around just that and that your an Illuminati spy or whatever..... ugh.

Jesus said death is like sleep. He also went to heaven whole as a physical body.

So heaven could be another planet. It is a physical place. It does not mean Jesus is an "alien".

your consciousness/soul could be transferred to God's mind and you exist like a lucid dream, where you are conscious and it is indisguinshable from physical reality and the laws of physics don't apply, like in a dream.

Since you are living in God's dream, it can be as pleasurable or hellish as He makes it. If God so chooses. It could literally be your best dreams coming true. And we can meet each other in this dream and do and be anything as long as Gods dream allows it.

But since God is creating this place with His mind, It must be Heaven, Something almost if at all unimaginable.

You can get a sense of what I'm talking about when someone lives in your memory. Memory is like dream. Except you are in Gods memory/dream, stored existing as a consciousness.

That is just temporary until your new body is resurrected and your consciousness stored is returned back into physical reality and are taken to heaven to live the rest of eternity with all the riches and rewards.

You "wake" up, never have known you died, besides possibly knowing you are aware in God's mind/dream.

So in a sense you don't die, you live in a dream like sleep. So Jesus is right, Death is like sleep. A dream indistinguishable from reality.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

A over active imagination of a deluded person.

People invent things that justify their beliefs all i time.... every creek in the floor or gust of wind turns into a ghost. Youll notice the majority of ghost hunters turn out to be FAKE or discover nothing other than hesitant farts, tree branches, or hand prints.

edit on 21-1-2013 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)

Your knowledge on the subject is religious in nature
Religion annoys me.
Your response is based 100% in belief.
Belief is something I tend to reject in any acceptable model of reality.

I don't ask you to trust me...I personally don't care what you disbelieve based on your religion..go preach to someone who cares.


Now this is the part where you say you don't have a religion...but you do..maybe not in a specific deity, but you do believe yourself to have supernatural authority on a subject to fully dismiss everything and everyone whom experiences something different than your currently narrow view.
That to me..might as well shave your head and hit a tambourine at a airport...cultlike behavior mate.

Also you give nothing to the topic at hand...just your belief..just your religion...equally as annoying at the thumpers whom give up quotes without even caring what the topic at hand is. Simply unable to hear what is being said or realize they may not have all the answers.

Those 'bible thumpers' are actually giving you truth but natural man cannot accept nor recognise it as truth, because it is only by the Spirit of God within that one can testify that it is truth. Your overall comments appear to show that you are a cautious person who likes to analyse situations (like ghosts) before arriving at any definitive conclusion, seeking both sides in acknowledgement that there may be some truth contained in both. But in this case, why are you not doing the same? You have a seething against 'religion' which leads you to a definitive conclusion that it is the 'bible thumpers' who are "unable to hear what is being said or realize they may not have all the answers." Can I ask why in this case, you do not accept that it may be you who is unable "to hear" or unable "to realise" that those Biblical quotes are exactly addressing the issue at hand? You cannot maintain in one post that you pride yourself on not jumping to conclusions, yet hypocritically do it in this case.

It is the heart of the matter for this thread. The Bible describes three parts to the body - the spirit, the soul and the body. The body is dead without the spirit. It is through the seat of our senses that natural man perceives truth of the world, not truth from God. Adam and Eve show this....desires were raised and she perceived (saw) that the fruit was good. Perceptions, our five senses, became the avenue by which the serpent's lie "You shalt not die" was proved as a "truth" in their mind. Eve was deceived in this matter, her perceptions provided evidence. With desires raised for what the serpent said, that sensual evidence became MAN'S way of determining truth.

The OP mentioned meditation. If he'd read non-meditation pushing literature, he'd understand that one of three common beliefs that are produced from eastern meditation is the belief that we are all divine as part of a global consciousness. But as you state that you look to both sides of issues, why doesn't this include the Bible? The Bible tells us that the man of lawlessness sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be god. Just what meditation produces. Meditation is a sensory experience, providing what it's practioners use to prove it's validity, never suspecting that these experiences through their senses are proving a lie to be truth. Likewise, those who have an experience with a "ghost" know hands down that they perceived something, and can use that perception to "prove" anything from an afterlife to immortality. But what if neither of those were ultimate and absolute truths? What if those things are what man WANTS to be true? I've had a few experiences with what I would call a "ghost" before Our Creator called. And to this day, I do not yet understand exactly what they are, but I do know this much; Lying signs and wonders abound today because we are at the close of this age in humanity's existence.

The religion of the true God is to care for orphans and widows...in spiritual terms, the oppressed and the helpless. Right now, you are both and I point you towards the Word of God as truth, whose words are spirit and life. It is our spirit which must be reborn, from the spirit of Adam to God's spirit. It is from this rebirth that seemingly horrific passages in scripture are transformed into spiritual truths. The pain of a woman in labour becomes a simile for anguish, for example

No offense, but I didn't see the logic involved with your conclusion. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, therefor there's an afterlife? I'm guessing you are suggesting that since the body and all matter is energy, that when you die the energy stays there, because it can't be created or destroyed. Is this correct? The problem with this is that there's no evidence a soul exists in the first place. The body dies, the energy converts into dead tissue that changes form when it decomposes. Your energy is still there, it's just part of the dirt now, it's not a conscious breathing human. From the earth, and to the earth you return. For you to use logic, you'd need to show that a soul does exist, and that the energy does not simply turn into an inanimate energy like dust or dirt and remains a conscious self aware entity, even through death of the body.

To add what I was saying, Since God is in constant connection whether you are aware or not, He will know everything instantly at anytime and since doing good connects you to God, And evil disconnects you, only the good, good memories and good experiences will be recorded in Gods mind.

So when your consciousness/ memory is transferred back into your new body, only the good will be transferred back and you would never have known of evil, pain, suffering or death as those memories and experiences won't be transferred back.

It would be in a sense erased from your memory, or more accurately, never recorded in the first place as evil disconnects you from God.

So the point is, the more good you do, the more of you that you get back.

So if you only did one good thing in your life, The less of you you take back which is a good thing.

So say for example, you made someone happy with an act of kindness, that is all you will remember of your life on earth.

Gods judgement and punishment is a whole other matter, that Jesus will decide.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by JibbyJedi

 

lol nice...

Cars don't work without a driver right?

Google thinks they do.

Food for thought maybe? Entropy.....imagine our body is a candle, our mind it's wick and our soul it's flame. Where does the flame go when the candle has burned out?

Originally posted by VinceGG
The law of conservation of mass, states that the mass of an isolated system will remain constant over time. Matter in the universe never just disappears completely. Mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space and changed into different types of particles. Basically, it can change states, become another form of matter, or become a form of energy and does not disappear into nothing. I believe that consciousness/soul/spirit follows the same principal after it is released from our bodies.

This comes up a lot. And, no.

Yes, you are made of matter. And yes, that matter is still there when you're dead. However, the intricate neural network that is YOU becomes unstructured.

No, you are not energy, and no, you do not endure forever due to the law of conservation of energy. Nothing in the conservation of energy states that energy has to retain any sort of organization, nor does it continue to retain structure. The thing that is "you" ends when you die. Your brain is a milkshake in a few hours. The structure does not remain. "You" become unstructured.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
It's based on NOTHING factual.

At least my disbelief is based on 100% absence of any evidence to the contrary. Is that not factual? It's Russell's Teapot, the burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims. You don't believe that the world was created by a six-headed donkey just because I say so, do you? Yet so many people believe into book Gods/angels/afterlife/etc. although never in the history of mankind has any evidence what-so-ever been presented for their existence. These beliefs are based on NOTHING factual.

Google any of these authors, check out their work, and you will know:

Walter Russell, Robert Monroe, Allan Kardec, William Crookes, Swedenborg, Charles Tart, Oliver Lodge, Hyslop, Bruce Moen, Raymond Moody, Jeremy Narby, Conan Doyle blablabla

Many I forgot or out there. There is so much of existence that humans have not explored or explored with aspects missing causing a skewed view on things.

cognitive thinking, not basic survival instinct that animals have, but real complex thought and apprehension of ideas beyond the basic life mode could not be without a soul.

So is it energy?

Is it just carbon and other chemicals that randomly formed to cause cognitive reasoning/thinking?

The physical becomes something else after death i.e. fertilizer and worm fodder but what of the thought process?

Can it exist outside the physical?

The premise of the OP does lend to some deeper thought. And if there is life after death then we would have to consider that there is a type of life on a level that is not entirely physical.

It now only needs proving with observable facts. Like someone rising from the dead and being perfectly normal in cognitive thinking. Any breakdown in the physical would definitely cause a change in the cognitive reasoning if it was all connected to chemicals and compounds of the body.

the OP's idea needs to be looked at deeper. If I am not mistaken this could be worked out mathematically in a dimension of mathematics beyond the 4th. So it would take a person of smarts more than that of Hawking to even attempt to explain it to the rest of us.

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by Murgatroid
It's based on NOTHING factual.

At least my disbelief is based on 100% absence of any evidence to the contrary. Is that not factual? It's Russell's Teapot, the burden of proof lies upon a person making scientifically unfalsifiable claims. You don't believe that the world was created by a six-headed donkey just because I say so, do you? Yet so many people believe into book Gods/angels/afterlife/etc. although never in the history of mankind has any evidence what-so-ever been presented for their existence. These beliefs are based on NOTHING factual.

edit on 22-1-2013 by rhinoceros because: (no reason given)

There is a lot more than one religion (you seem to be only pointing to one in particular) that believe in an afterlife. Animist, Bhuddist, Hindues, Muslim, Jews, Christians, and the mixed forms of these as well as new age, scientology, Mormonism etc . . .

So you see it is not about one book it is the fact that this is ingrained into mans nature.

"One mans facts is another mans religion." T. B. Forthwright