Violent thought? You get reported.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by ValentineWiggin

 

I guess the moral of the story, at least what I'm taking from this, is that this will instil fear for those going to therapy, having to watch what they say and do in fear of being put on some list.

Sadly, this is already the world we live in, but I get it now, how exactly can you give yourself up freely and try to find help, if you have to keep your guard up.

YES that is exactly the point I am trying to make, you made it better than I did lol, thank you Sir! (PS: A phriend indeed!)

For example;

Next week at paintball, I told Earl in Accounting that I was going to kill him.

That test last week? It killed Carl.

I hear you're getting married next week, dead man walking!

"Killing me softly with his songs, killing me softly, with his so-ooongs"

"I shot the Sherriff, but I did not shoot the deputy"

That traffic yesterday was murder!

Originally posted by beezzer
For example;

Next week at paintball, I told Earl in Accounting that I was going to kill him.

That test last week? It killed Carl.

I hear you're getting married next week, dead man walking!

"Killing me softly with his songs, killing me softly, with his so-ooongs"

"I shot the Sherriff, but I did not shoot the deputy"

That traffic yesterday was murder!

Just to name a few, exactly.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by redhorse

 

The comparison between a private therapy session and an airport security line is absurd. The contexts are completely different.

It's a valid comparison. At the security line, you are well aware that you are being monitored for suspicious behavior. With this law in place, you are well aware that your healthcare provider is screening you for dangerous intent.

It's valid.

Nope. Not valid, no matter how many times the word "valid" is repeated, it still isn't a valid comparison.

The context is completely different. In an airport security line the point is SECURITY, so they are hypersensitive to even innocuous expressions of aggression. However, I think even in an airport security line saying, "God my neighbor is such a jerk. Sometimes I want to throttle him." Would be given a pass. Also it is a public place, with no focus what-so-ever on expressing frustration with your life.

In a therapy session the point is working through whatever emotional road blocks you may have, in a private, safe setting.

See? Completely different.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
So, yes, common sense needs to be allowed. On the part of the professional AND the patient. I'm sorry, but if you can't express frustration and anger without making threats against people, YOU ARE MENTALLY UNSTABLE.

Well, thank goodness modern psychiatry, and psychology defines it differently (at least at the moment), or there would be a lot of people who are irritated with their kids teacher, or their neighbors dog who might be in big trouble.

I could blow away most politicians.....what ya gonna do to me....answers on a postcard please....

reply to post by redhorse


I hear you redhorse, I can remember a few Therapy sessions I've had in the past on really bad days where I've said things like "My mother is such a _____ I could kill her sometimes" when I was a teenager. Thank the LORD that was then and not now. Teenagers are going to be one of the biggest concerns (in my opinion) and frankly they do not think before they speak with all those hormones getting inbetween their brains and their mouths.

Yes it is a terrible thought that anyone lose a child to any murderer and I think that goes without saying, but what about if you lost a child to a particularly hormonal therapy session? Psych wards are expensive.

ETA

And God FORBID your child get locked up for a while because of something said in a therapy session, by the time they get out the attitude will be "Oh so Im crazy? You wanna see crazy?" .... oh this could go so wrong. It is wrong what do I mean "could".

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin







Yeah I understand, the last thing I want was this to be a pro/anti gun debate, I wanted it to focus on the Mental Health side of it and the best way to handle that which is why I didn't use the title of the article.

If you haven't noticed the gun debate is currently the topic de jour here at ATS at present and if any thread can be turned into "they're gonna take our guns" it will be. So much for mental health eh?

As we slide ever closer to "1984" and total surveillance, thought crime, reeducation camps, private prisons, etc.
it's inevitable that America will eventually mirror China today. Communism, Fascism two sides of the same coin.

Big Brother is watching! And listening!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That region of the country has just crossed the line from psychology for your health into psychology for censorship.

This is the same way psychology was used in the Soviet Union, to silence dissidents.

Wikipedia page on USSR political abuse of psychiatry.

It also makes writers some of the most guilty people under this system. Free speech is under attack.

Let me demonstrate my freedom: I wish I could rip those power-drunk signers limb from limb with my spirit of liberty. And I hope some freedom fighters find a way to nuke that law from orbit.

Please God, take away anybody who clings to this regime. Even if it looks like I'm losing my country.

If this keeps up France is going to take that big green statue back. Already I'm apologizing to my ancestors who immigrated here for freedom, I'm sorry the leaders of this nation are forsaking your hopes and dreams. I'm sorry they are becoming like the nations you ran away from. But if we have to run away from a free country like America, where do we run to? Where do we go when the laws for freedom and liberty in speech are gone?

reply to post by Sandalphon


Reading that link now, thank you

Originally posted by ValentineWiggin

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Just curious -- what's your solution for the Adam Lanza's, the Jared Loughner's, the James Holmes' of our society? Just keep doing what we're doing - which is nothing? I pray that none of us ever has to face the horror of losing our child to a crazy person that got hold of a gun.

While I respect your stance on this subject, my intention is to open some minds to the idea that if this type of standard operating procedure is adopted, those Lanza's and Loughner's and Holmes' may not even go to the Dr. in the first place. They had been going, the problem I have here is with how the Mental Health Professionals sweep a lot of patient's under the rug without watching very closely their reactions to medications and pin pointing proper diagnoses.

Mental Health patient's wouldn't know what to do if a Dr. or Therapist actually listened to us and took the time to try and tweak what was wrong instead of shuffling us off to the next appointment.

I don't see how this is going to get more people to the Dr. at all.

I agree with what you're saying, in that mental health professionals need to spend more time and pay closer attention to their patients, and drug interactions. But if a person tells a doctor that he feels that he is possessed by the devil and he is compelled to kill lots of people in a public place, that doctor absolutely SHOULD report it to somebody. This is totally different than saying "I'm so mad at my mom I could throttle her", and I think most doctors know the difference.

There is also a certain amount of profiling that could be happening as well. Mental health professionals are usually aware of the other warning signs of a violent mentally unbalanced person, other than just an outright declaration of future violence. Heck, there are even questionnaires you can fill out that are pretty good at picking out psychotic behavior, no matter how much you think you can outsmart them. No one can predict the future, so I'm not saying we should put a patient in jail simply based on a profile.... but maybe a doctor can recommend that a high-risk person shouldn't have access to weapons until/unless adequate treatment is rendered, and improvement is documented.

By the way, doctors have always been able to commit someone against their will, based on a diagnosis, although the specific requirements vary from state to state. Point is, that hasn't stopped everyone from going to the doctor when they need help.

Can it be abused? I guess -- any good program can potentially be abused. So, we put systems in place to prevent abuse, like we do with other programs that help our society.

Originally posted by kaylaluv


By the way, doctors have always been able to commit someone against their will, based on a diagnosis, although the specific requirements vary from state to state. Point is, that hasn't stopped everyone from going to the doctor when they need help.
Can it be abused? I guess -- any good program can potentially be abused. So, we put systems in place to prevent abuse, like we do with other programs that help our society.

I truly truly hope that works.

Happy thoughts, happy thoughts, must think happy thoughts, or I will get thrown in jail. Must think think happy thoughts. I want to kill my boss! Crap going to jail. Stupid thoughts.

S&F! It was so easy to see this coming...

The DSM has ballooned to over 300 different mental "disorders" (see plans for the upcoming DSM-V to get a clearer picture of where this is headed)
Some of the "disorders" which will be or already are classified could also be considered normal reactions or thought processes we all have occasionally during daily life interactions.
The grey line between what is "normal" & what is a "disorder" is getting blurrier each subsequent volume.

You will never walk into a psychiatrists or psychologists office & not end up getting diagnosed with something. That's what they get paid to do...in fact that's all they do...you tell them there's a problem & they tell you why it's not your fault. If you choose to go to the former of the two you'll even get some pills ta-boot (guaranteed).

Where does the line get drawn? Who gets to decided where that line is? At what point do they decide you can no longer possess a firearm? How long will it take for the whole thing to get out of hand like it inevitably will?

This is what happens when you try to babysit society & eliminate personal responsibility by diagnosing every shortcoming as something that you have no control over. "It's not your fault you're lazy, irresponsible & make bad decisions - here, take this pill"

Every time we scream for a solution they take over a little more of our lives & at this rate they'll have us all in diapers within a few decades.

The way we speak and think IMO, has a lot more of an effect on us than we might realize. People overuse a lot of extreme words, and they become the norm. Obviously, I am opposed to this kind of crap completely, but I do believe that the way we express things like anger should be changed. Instead of saying, "Damn, I am so pissed at Bob!" people are more likely to say "Damn, I could just kill that Bob!" or "I hate Bob" and things like that. They obviously don't mean that literally, but I don't think it is a healthy way of expression, for you, or those around you.

Originally posted by TKDRL
The way we speak and think IMO, has a lot more of an effect on us than we might realize. People overuse a lot of extreme words, and they become the norm. Obviously, I am opposed to this kind of crap completely, but I do believe that the way we express things like anger should be changed. Instead of saying, "Damn, I am so pissed at Bob!" people are more likely to say "Damn, I could just kill that Bob!" or "I hate Bob" and things like that. They obviously don't mean that literally, but I don't think it is a healthy was of expression, for you, or those around you.

A very well made point, actually if I could Flag it I would

I aint worried about my shrink at the VA turning me in, I only talk about aliens and ufos when i see him lol

Originally posted by HomerinNC
I aint worried about my shrink at the VA turning me in, I only talk about aliens and ufos when i see him lol

Can I get a referral?!

Originally posted by coldkidc
Every time we scream for a solution they take over a little more of our lives & at this rate they'll have us all in diapers within a few decades.

edit on 21-1-2013 by coldkidc because: (no reason given)

But who is really screaming for a solution. You see the MSM talking it up - but what about everyone else around you.

Solution - crisis - response

What would be interesting to see, however, is how they will define "eligibility" for firearms against the DSM - and since that's going to be legislated, I'm going to be really interested to see how they deal with the IV-TR to V transitions. Since doctors can't use the V system yet they can't write the law against that one, and since the IV-TR is going to be replaced shortly, their legislation is going to be short lived...

What if they write down 309.21 instead of 312.9 - (anxiety vs ADD)? Would this clerical error get entered into your "permanent" record? How would you go about appealing this?

But you know what it is - it's JOBS JOBS JOBS. Someone needs to review these cases and someone needs to answer the complaint hotline

reply to post by kamebard


Well, out of the few hundred friends and family I have on my facebook, including a bunch of people from CT, only two ever wrote statuses, comments etc, about something needing to be done. Maybe coincidence, but those two are also sucking up welfare, while being perfectly able to work. Part of the nanny mentality IMO.

Guess this is out the window then:

The concept of "doctor-patient confidentiality" derives from English COMMON LAW and is codified in many states' statutes. It is based on ethics, not law, and goes at least as far back as the Roman Hippocratic Oath taken by physicians. It is different from "doctor-patient privilege," which is a legal concept. Both, however, are called upon in legal matters to establish the extent by which ethical duties of confidentiality apply to legal privilege. Legal privilege involves the right to withhold EVIDENCE from DISCOVERY and/or the right to refrain from disclosing or divulging information gained within the context of a "special relationship." Special relationships include those between doctors and patients, attorneys and clients, priests and confessors or confiders, guardians and their wards, etc.

www.enotes.com...

What's next?
Better Question, what's left?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Not really very much.