Scientist seeks surrogate mother for Neanderthal baby

It's incredible to think of the amount of legal grey areas this opens.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I meant 'build' as in 'build anything worthwhile'

And as you had a dig at me... I shall retort:

You spelt 'Patients' wrong.

Meh I just consider it a matter of relative perspective, might not be worthwhile to us nowadays but to them it might have been very worthwhile.

They weren't apes banging two rocks together or sticking sticks down termite holes that's all im meaning, but I just get iffy when people intimate like these guys were hairy man beasts with the intellect of a lobotomized radish since that idea died quite some time ago and was just such an unscientific patronizing insult designed to keep modern (western) man superior.

**hands this post over to the neanderthal sitting next to him** Proof read this will you Murry there's a good boy...

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Johnny

This statement turned out to be false... well at least it was retracted. These sick fools will probably just kidnap some poor woman.

reply to post by bottleslingguy

that's the most idiotic thing I've heard in a while. let me get this right- we clone a Neanderthal in order for him to solve all our societal problems? really? are you going with that?

NO.

That's not what he said.

Nor is it what I said.

Go ahead and misinterpret and call me an idiot. I care not.

reply to post by outoftown1

It's incredible to think of the amount of legal grey areas this opens.

Most definitely.

Addressing them is inevitable. Future holds cyborg humans andor sentient androids. And probably humans born with animal genetics mixed in. How 'human' is defined will continue to be challenged.

The playing god resistance will lose this battle.

*raises his lightsaber* For science!!

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by bottleslingguy

 

that's the most idiotic thing I've heard in a while. let me get this right- we clone a Neanderthal in order for him to solve all our societal problems? really? are you going with that?

NO.

That's not what he said.

Nor is it what I said.

Go ahead and misinterpret and call me an idiot. I care not.

sorry about that. but I just don't get what it would teach us. for one thing it would not be in it's native habitat and would grow up accustom to the current surroundings- nothing to do with what they knew how to do or however they thought back then. Maybe there would be some benefit to something like his blood or immune system? Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? we would clone them for their blood?

reply to post by bottleslingguy

not be in it's native habitat and would grow up accustom to the current surroundings- nothing to do with what they knew how to do or however they thought back then.

As a previous poster said. He/She would grow up playing the Xbox 360.

He/she's natural habitat would be the one grown up in. Just like modern humans. Take someone who grows up with a tribe in the Amazon versus someone that grows up in California. They would be quite different, yet still modern human. The science/history seems to show such striking similarity between Neanderthal and us there isn't good reason to believe this won't be the case.

Maybe there would be some benefit to something like his blood or immune system? Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? we would clone them for their blood?

Once they are alive, the reason for being alive will be the same as ours. AKA who the hell knows.

If inhumane treatment occurs I am confident enough people will voice it and changes will be made to give equal rights. Personally I think we would apply the same rights right away because the Neanderthal would be deemed human.

Actually if you watch the vid I linked of the scientist behind this. He makes it clear this isn't something that will occur until regular human cloning is already accepted by society. So those issues would be resolved prior to neanderthal cloning.

As for the "uses" and "benefits". Anything and everything that could give insight into human origin, or origin of human consciousness, should be explored. Perhaps there is insight there. George Church (the man of the hour) did mention the neanderthal potentially being immune to certain diseases which would be of course great to study.

reply to post by LeLeu


LMFAO ! Best belly rumble I've had for awhile. Angelina Jolie would be first in line. A total first in reality TV from the moment she picks up her newborn Neander-baby till the last episode where it turns out to be much more intelligent than the viewing audience.

...Now somewhere in a darkened boardroom the general sits with his henchmen all around. The reports from the old Soviet experiments with ape super-soldiers spread about the table in front of them." Perhaps Stalin was actually onto something here" he muses aloud....

Originally posted by Monger
It's worth noting that every person of non-African ancestry alive today has at least SOME Neanderthal DNA in their makeup. Yeah, including YOU. So to anybody saying that a human woman wouldn't be able to birth a Neanderthal child is just plain wrong - it's happened before, time and time again.

They were, after all, not incredibly different than we are today. Indeed, I suspect that an adult Neanderthal walking around any city on Earth wouldn't have a great deal of difficulty blending into a crowd.

Just what I would have said, if you hadn't already! From all the DNA evidence, it seems they were just another race, not another species. So, chances are, the kid might look a little unusual, but would be totally human. Yeah, a c-section would be an easy option, if that was even an issue. The moral implications are what would bug me, with people acting like that child wasn't really human, and thus didn't have the same rights. Plus, such experimentation could also lead to allowing even more, with people having "designer babies".

I think we should stick with knowing we all have a bit of that DNA, and leave it alone.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
I think it is kind of cool. Geneticists have determined that most people in the world have DNA as a result from interbreeding so by all means it isn’t that far of a leap. We may find out some very important data from such a thing.

To be honest it will only be religious circles that will have a huge problem with this after all the bible never said they even existed.

Really? Another race of people didn't exist? That is all they were. That we carry the DNA proves it. Successful breeding, on a scale that has most of the planet carrying the genes, means we are/were the same species. Just a different race. Nothing in the Bible says a certain race could not have been mostly eliminated.

The problem I would have is how a person born in such a fashion would be treated. The poor kid would end up as "patented material", and "belonging to" whatever bunch funded the experiment. That's the moral issue I see.

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

i dont know why one would need to get a mother for a neanderthal, if you look at all people that you encounter, there is definitely neanderthal genes still within our society,

ive seen them, few and far between, but they are there in my years on this earth ive seen maybe five that fit the description of caveman, although they speak and like like modern man, there face and body structure indicate neanderthal genetics

I have seen a few. Heck, based on the most recent, more honest information, I probably have a good share of the DNA myself. link Shorter limbs, thicker frame.....sounds like my dad's side of the family! I have short legs for my torso length, and a "large" frame (by wrist measurement) as well. The neanderthals were just people.

Hmmm interesting, whether it was a falsie or not, the fact remains it's a possibility in our lifetime, we have the ability to clone, and we haver Neanderthal DNA, all that we need is a surrogate (as if it hasn't already been done behind closed air-locks)

I believe the actual scientist who said this has come forward to say he wasn't planning it at all and was just a mistranslation

Link

reply to post by Sparta


It's between the two.

He does want to but he was talking about a hypothetical situation. He wasn't preparing to do it. He said not until human cloning is 'mainstream'.

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by bottleslingguy

 

not be in it's native habitat and would grow up accustom to the current surroundings- nothing to do with what they knew how to do or however they thought back then.

As a previous poster said. He/She would grow up playing the Xbox 360.

He/she's natural habitat would be the one grown up in. Just like modern humans. Take someone who grows up with a tribe in the Amazon versus someone that grows up in California. They would be quite different, yet still modern human. The science/history seems to show such striking similarity between Neanderthal and us there isn't good reason to believe this won't be the case.

Maybe there would be some benefit to something like his blood or immune system? Is that the kind of thing you are talking about? we would clone them for their blood?

Once they are alive, the reason for being alive will be the same as ours. AKA who the hell knows.

If inhumane treatment occurs I am confident enough people will voice it and changes will be made to give equal rights. Personally I think we would apply the same rights right away because the Neanderthal would be deemed human.

Actually if you watch the vid I linked of the scientist behind this. He makes it clear this isn't something that will occur until regular human cloning is already accepted by society. So those issues would be resolved prior to neanderthal cloning.

As for the "uses" and "benefits". Anything and everything that could give insight into human origin, or origin of human consciousness, should be explored. Perhaps there is insight there. George Church (the man of the hour) did mention the neanderthal potentially being immune to certain diseases which would be of course great to study.

there are a lot of holes in that thinking:
1. we're still trying to sort out the "equal rights" thing and it's doubtful we will ever sort it out
2. "who the hell knows" is a big hole in your/his reasoning
3. "issues of human cloning resolved" first= good luck with that
4. exploring "human consciousness" vis a vis a cloned Neanderthal is kinda like digging for silver when you're trying to find gold is it not?
5. it's immune system would probably not be accustomed to all the wonderful pathogens present today. look at the Hawaiians or Native Americans for proof of that.

there are just so many things wrong with thinking just by having a live specimen we can learn a lot about ourselves that it doesn't even need to get to the ethical aspects which are deal breakers in my opinion

reply to post by bottleslingguy

1. we're still trying to sort out the "equal rights" thing and it's doubtful we will ever sort it out

Indeed. I am very aware of this. It's a continual process towards perfection. I don't see how this is a strong point against. It's like saying gay people shouldn't be born because we haven't figured out their equal right stuff yet.

2. "who the hell knows" is a big hole in your/his reasoning

That was just a tangent point. I was musing on the idea of 'meaning'.

3. "issues of human cloning resolved" first= good luck with that

Human cloning is going to happen. It's in our future. Along with many many other things people right now deem "playing god".

4. exploring "human consciousness" vis a vis a cloned Neanderthal is kinda like digging for silver when you're trying to find gold is it not?

Please keep my words in perspective. I said anything that could bring insight into that. I didn't say it would answer some ultimate question. And yes I do think it could potentially bring some insight.

5. it's immune system would probably not be accustomed to all the wonderful pathogens present today. look at the Hawaiians or Native Americans for proof of that.

That's a valid concern.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy
5. it's immune system would probably not be accustomed to all the wonderful pathogens present today. look at the Hawaiians or Native Americans for proof of that.

From what I can gather, they think that human immune systems actually got a significant boost due to breeding with Neanderthals. Sure the kid would be lacking alot of the last 30,000 years worth of hereditary immunity but who knows it might have a few immunities we as a species have lost in that same intervening time.

Also dont forget that it will have to be breastfeed, and breastfeeding particularly the first time for a baby is where the mother transfers their immunities to the child (or so I believe, hey im in the dark about most of that but my sister recently had a kid the last couple of years so ive picked up the odd bit here and there), so whoever the mother was would pass one there immunities to the neanderthal child.

reply to post by BigfootNZ

so whoever the mother was would pass one there immunities to the neanderthal child.

I think many people here are convinced the baby would never see a breast. Put in a cage in the corner of an underground bunker.

Whereas I agree with you. I believe the baby would have a mother and be raised as a member of society.

Especially since, as Church said, it would occur only after human cloning.

I wonder if the baby wasn't breast fed, but formula fed by the mother....

For those who think we didn’t interbreed with Neanderthals here is an article from a science magazine I just came across.

A 40,000-year-old human skeleton previously excavated in China has yielded genetic clues to Stone Age evolution.

Ancient DNA from cell nuclei and maternally inherited mitochondria indicates that this individual belonged to a population that eventually gave rise to many present-day Asians and Native Americans, says a team led by Qiaomei Fu and Svante Pääbo, evolutionary geneticists at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany.

The partial skeleton, unearthed in Tianyuan Cave near Beijing in 2003, carries roughly the same small proportions of Neandertal and Denisovan genes as living Asians do (SN: 8/25/12, p. 22), the scientists report online January 21 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Stone Age people and their close evolutionary relatives interbred infrequently, the researchers suspect. DNA analyses of additional human fossils from Asia and Europe are needed to illuminate how often cross-species flings occurred tens of thousands of years ago.
www.sciencenews.org...

We are all mutts