Yahweh = Satan. They have you worshiping evil.

reply to post by Northwarden


I'm not misportraying anyone, only asking questions that others usually look past.

If god gave us free will as a gift then why does he tell us we shouldn't use it? Why give a gift if you plan on taking it back if they use it? That's not a gift, it's a bribe.

God should love all people equally. If someone makes a few bad mistakes in their short lifespan here on Earth, how does that equal to eternity in hell? I thought god was a fair god? If someone does bad things, don't you think they deserve a chance at redemption instead of throwing them in a cell and throwing away the key?

There is much truth to what you say, Saturn.

However, there is one thing which might be worth considering:

What is your master right now? The one who's picture that you have right now in your wallet.

Did you kill your master, really? You can't kill that alone, can you? We all have that master's picture in our wallets.

Even the mountain man living off the land has to bow to him regularly, because he has infiltrated our collective consciousness.

I believe that the only thing we can do about it is help each other become aware of it.

Nobody is forcing anyone to believe it... merely suggesting that it affects you.

I mean. this website is proof that many people can FEEL something clawing at their minds...

Even the complete skeptics here... I mean they could just as easily be somewhere else, not even bothering.

But they choose to be here, to hear lunatics like me ranting about God and the Devil.

Our path may be ours alone, but if we were to ignore others who are walking parallel to us, then we're not much better than the supposed character of Satan, now are we? Not saying you or anyone here really does that.

The point of information and wisdom and experience is to share it with others. I would never barge into a place and force people to think or act upon anything that they have not experienced themselves.

All we can do here is make suggestions. All we can do is suggest that there ARE collective answers to our collective problems, and some of those collective answers require us to become more and more collectively aware of our own subterranean experiences...

But since we are individuals, it's up to each of us to come to that understanding. That may take a long time, and it may never happen that we collectively become aware of our slave driver...

But we can plant seeds. As long as we have a medium to speak about these thing, we can plant seeds.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

And god is also the one who created mankind knowing full well that he was going to send LOTS of people to suffer for eternity. He even created hell! A loving god does not create a place where his creation burns forever.

Hell, as you might define it, is a myth created by the Catholic church. The only way anyone could ever go to hell is if they create one in their own minds first. Please don't make that mistake for the sake of you soul.

Before any of this stuff we call reality existed there was nothing, not even suffering. If you want to find a place of absolute peace devoid of suffering look no further.

While Deny Ignorance is our motto, there may be a great deal of ignorance displayed in this thread, because the Bible is very nuanced and cannot be summed up in mere black and white terms. To skim the surface (if having actually read the book) and then pronounce the God of the OT the representative of absolute evil, is both ignorant and absurd, imho.

I often think of this when thinking of the Old Testament God :

Their chief is blind; because of his power and his ignorance and his arrogance he said, with his power, "It is I who am God; there is none apart from me." When he said this, he sinned against the entirety. And this speech got up to incorruptibility; then there was a voice that came forth from incorruptibility, saying, "You are mistaken, Samael" - which is, "god of the blind."

Source : The Hypostasis of the Archons

Sorry if that causes offence to anyone, it's just what comes to mind after researching some Gnostic texts and seeing some of the madness that goes on in the Old Testament. Thinking of him as an Archon seems to make a lot more sense.

reply to post by Devino


I don't believe in hell, unless you believe Earth is hell (which I do). In my opinion the biblical hell is only allegory for a place like Earth where death, destruction, murder, war, pollution, lies, deception, etc. etc. etc. happens every second of every day. The evil rule the world and the catholic church and all other churches in general have all aided in turning Eden into hell on earth.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


What would you call someone who went around murdering people by the thousands? What if be went to some random town and started killing every first born baby that he saw? What if he did all this while condoning slavery and rape? If you think that person would be evil then why is it any different for god?

Originally posted by Majestic Lumen
For what it's worth, I have always wondered why the God of the bible always seemed so insecure, if he was supposed to be omnipotent and what not.

A fair point, but the reality is it was the writers showing their own foibles in their work. At the time of the stories in the Old Testament the people of the Levant and Canaan worshipped many gods, with Yahweh and his wife being just one particularly cult. The bible stories even admit that the people in Canaan who they later called Hebrews or Isrealites worshipped many deities, and archeological records confirm that the ancient Isrealites were not monotheistic. The stories were all redacted and reworked later on when they were written down, and probably to consolidate all the little towns and tribes and to strengthen their position against the surrounding "others" they tried to erase their true history and make it look like they had always worshipped Yahweh only.

That's the beautiful thing about archeology and why it's important to keep multiple sources of information, especially physical information - because the "winners" will always try to rewrite history - but sooner or later the truth is uncovered, no matter how hard they try to destroy it.

As for the God of the bible being Satan, I don't think it really matters. One mediterranean cults Iron Age deities should be treated like all the others. The sooner we stop giving credence to these myths of Yahweh and Jesus and they are treated the same as Osiris, Zeus and Aphrodite the better.

I just got that feeling that there is an after life.
We will never understand it looking for religion to tell us about it.

reply to post by MamaJ

Thanks for the reply and link. I'll have to watch it later, as well as read the rest of this thread, when I have more time.

Originally posted by dragnik
reply to post by chrome413

 

Did human write that, I wouldn't say that counting on his style, and terms?

I'm sorry but I'm a moron. Could you rephrase that so it actually makes sense? Again, it's all on me here and my moronic American brain. Thanks!

reply to post by robhines


A friend of mine who is of the Tibetan Buddhist frame of mind told me something today that I must take into serious consideration:

This "blind god" which we're referring to... is still a being of some sort. Much like the "Grand Architect" in the Matrix Trilogy... it makes mistakes, like we all do. It believes in its omnipotence and its ability to see all causes, effects, and conclusions.

As much as it was the enemy of Neo, the humans it used for fuel, and the last free humans of Zion, it also needed help itself to become free of its own intellectual trap.

In Tibetan Buddhism, the practice of Tonglen is a meditation which is used by the practitioner as a mechanism for not only the enlightenment and liberation of the individual practitioner, but for the benefit of ALL sentient beings in existence.... including and ESPECIALLY the "blind", be they gods, rulers, demons, humans, animals, ghosts, robots.... all beings.

That was the ultimate lesson of the film, when I reflect upon it.

The suffering of one, if reflected upon, can benefit All... since we're all interconnected by an interpenetrating Awareness.... or Supreme Being....

Our individual paths are not so lonely as we think.

At some point during meditational practice, you become not only aware of your breath, but your breath itself becomes an active and aware principle...

Breath is one of the most important tools we have. When we breathe in air, we also breath in awareness. When we breathe out air, we also breathe out awareness.

If you become aware of your breath and its awareness, you then become consciously connected to the awareness of everyone else...

(which can sometimes be REALLY difficult to process...)

But I believe that even the most blind, dark, and petty creatures can be reached gradually, over long periods of time.

I guess that is why Buddhists consider it a very great honor to be born here, rather than in any other realms.... because we exist at this median between heaven and hell.... and therefore we are the mediators, the ones who experience and process pain and suffering for the rest of the Cosmos...

Puts a whole new perspective on things.... if only we can keep that in mind, myself most definitely included.

So, the war for each of us.... is really only with our ability to process suffering... pain, sadness, and fear included...

We're all a lot more prepared to deal with it than we might think....

Perhaps that's why we are here... to liberate a blind god from his mental prison by liberating ourselves from our own mental prisons...

Just found this too :

According to Marcion, the title God was given to the Demiurge, who was to be sharply distinguished from the higher Good God. The former was díkaios, severely just, the latter agathós, or loving-kind; the former was the "god of this world" (2 Corinthians 4:4), the God of the Old Testament, the latter the true God of the New Testament. Christ, though in reality the Son of the Good God, pretended to be the Messiah of the Demiurge, the better to spread the truth concerning His heavenly Father. The true believer in Christ entered into God's kingdom, the unbeliever remained forever the slave of the Demiurge.

Demiurge - Marcion

reply to post by Devino


Glad to make you think!

In the context of the OP, I do not think Yahweh is a creator, and I use "Satan" more as the personification of evil rather than in the ancient way as the adversary. I think both are the same entity that are unrelated to God, so be sure to read it in that context to get my meaning.

I make no claims as to who or what the real God is, only to what I definitely believe it is NOT.

reply to post by CaticusMaximus




I am amazed how many people believe in the existence of both God and Satan and also believe this.

To repeat one of my favorite lessons from Jesus "If a blind man leads another blind man into a pit they both fall in".

This post is inspired by the father of all lies. I doubt the OP would believe me though, oh well. Something about kicking dust off of feet....

OP if you would like I could U2U you about this.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by Northwarden

 

If god is all-knowing and created the beginning, end, all in between, plus all possible choices, rewards, punishments, space/time, then there cannot be free will. All is known to god, all is written and created, therefore no surprises for the almighty. He can travel back and forth in time, change people's minds, etc. Are you perhaps saying that god has NO clue about choices you decide on? Even the bible depicts an already god-planned, spectacular ending with epic jesus fighting a dragon for crapssake! Give it a rest, the biblical god story is full of irrationalities, obvious contradictions and violent, primitive logic.

I disagree on the premise that all is written and created, and that we are fated to follow a certain path. We have a frightening ability to act on free will, and crimes happen because of the self-same free will. There are many "surprising" things that people and demons will do. The most noteworthy is the sin of rebellion against their creator, the first commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all your strength, all your soul, and all your being, which is of course intended entirely in terms of wholesome loves. God promises powerful delusions to those who follow any form of idolatry. Idolatry can include wisdom and knowledge, following cult logic - which Christianity is Not - or following corporate/job logic past a point of healthy concience..

I do believe that God can look into anything he wishes, can solve every crime, but will only help so many people. I've learned that cowardice, hopelessness, and despair or moping are failings and weakness, almost crimes in the eyes of the Almighty : heaven will meet you if you give at least fifty percent of your effort, and you won't even sense angelic prescence until you provide approximately forty percent effort. So many get lost trying to "bail water from their ships" while others are goading them on to bail faster while punching holes in their hull. The proper order is, drive away the invader punching holes in the hull, patch the hull, then bail the water. You need a ship that will fully float, so if two are damaing, both need to be driven away first. Scope to see what is actually there instead of measuring by the length of your own yardstick, and you'll see what poisons your influx one second at a time, and you'll learn to target the actual offenders well : no more false blame and false guilt.

I don't know if God knows all things that happen in times ahead, but I think it's one timeline for all of us, in which everything happens in, complete with our free will. Anyone who seeks to separate a man, woman, boy or girl from loving their creator, or looks to corrupt them towards wordly practices, has no love for that individual (or they remain in ignorance). Absolutely none. Anyone who promotes a hellish lifestyle among them, draws their influence or perspective towards criminality or rebelliousness against God or His angels, deserve their fate. That's their soul future, and whatever the short-term gain is, it can't compare to the richness and ethical awesomeness which we may experience, forever, in living a life while walking with Our Lord.

If a person assaults you, then reprises against a defensive threat back, they are guilty of a double etendre, the current crime plus the reprisal. If they reprise three times, they are guilty of the current crime, plus the penalty for both reprisals. Revenge is usually always worse than the crime, and better to be wronged than do the wronging. Add a fifty-time multiplicity and a chaos factor, and the person can become absolutely spun on a bad revenge attitude (despite causing the problem), and can become that much more guilty by escalating the issue. It would be better if we waited patiently in God, as was requested, and allowed Him the vengeance. That often means waiting for matters to unfold in His time, which is usually based on preserving secrets, allowing room for free will to be undertaken, allowing due process, and examining the need for facts first. Hell plots are often absolutely diabolical. Besides, the more demons which are destroyed and bound, the more likelihood that people are associating with a "small world" problem where they allow their souls to slide to riftlike depths.

Stop deeping demons! Stay blessed above it; that old adage "as above so below" stinks of the "wormrot of false heavens", and only theosophic lightbringers will advocate seeking out Lucifer, already destroyed, or other power-players in the hell realm. Much of Canada has already thrown off it's spiritual shackles, and will in no way serve the nwo, it's demons, nor it's human agents.

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by robhines

 

A friend of mine who is of the Tibetan Buddhist frame of mind told me something today that I must take into serious consideration:

This "blind god" which we're referring to... is still a being of some sort. Much like the "Grand Architect" in the Matrix Trilogy... it makes mistakes, like we all do. It believes in its omnipotence and its ability to see all causes, effects, and conclusions.

As much as it was the enemy of Neo, the humans it used for fuel, and the last free humans of Zion, it also needed help itself to become free of its own intellectual trap.

In Tibetan Buddhism, the practice of Tonglen is a meditation which is used by the practitioner as a mechanism for not only the enlightenment and liberation of the individual practitioner, but for the benefit of ALL sentient beings in existence.... including and ESPECIALLY the "blind", be they gods, rulers, demons, humans, animals, ghosts, robots.... all beings.

That was the ultimate lesson of the film, when I reflect upon it.

The suffering of one, if reflected upon, can benefit All... since we're all interconnected by an interpenetrating Awareness.... or Supreme Being....

Our individual paths are not so lonely as we think.

That's really cool. I'm more Buddhist than anything else too and believe in the idea that whoever takes the last fall once this is all over, they're going to need help, not be left in pits of fire, hell and all that other crap. If anyone believes in eternal punishment they should really have a word with themselves, because if that's the case, it makes anyone else who could do anything about it but doesn't, the purest definition of "evil."

I know for a fact that if I woke up I'd be trying to help, so if I can have that in mind with my limited awareness, how much more those who are already awake on higher levels? Eternal suffering and damnation for evil beings is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Originally posted by NarrowGate
I am amazed how many people believe in the existence of both God and Satan and also believe this.

Yeah it's crazy at the end of the day, but that's the realm of duality for you I guess! I don't think there's any real division. I think that when you're angry you're Satan too, when you're loving you're God, when you're balanced you're neither, it's just division and delusion.

At the same time though I'm almost always interested in this stuff to try and work out how it originated and what it means. Maybe some of us just like distracting ourselves...

Uuhhhgghhh