Mass shooting in Albuquerque

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Doesn't matter how many uses guns have, we have a right to them.
Get that through your head. We know what they are for. People don't buy them expecting better gas mileage. They are for protection.

Why do you come to every thread like this with your gun control agenda. Why are you more concerned with the weapon than why a 15 year old kid is capable of killing his family (which I believe is what happened, not a hundred percent, but same last name according to MSM).

You don't care about the victims at all. You are 100 percent agenda driven, but you are just wasting your time because you aren't changing any minds.

reply to post by SJE98

Thanks for doing some digging. From your link. Kids a bully?

"From what I hear neighbors were kinda scared of the kid," South Valley activist Tony Padilla said.

Originally posted by roughycannon

Yes, me and 3 million other people why?

wut? HA HA HA if Piers Morgan had 3 million REAL twitter followers he would have better ratings than he does! I he hasn't even reached 500k viewers! If you really believe he has 3 million followers you're in lala land! Snookie had better ratings!

tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com...

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Well said, Gogo!!

xox

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Doesn't matter how many uses guns have, we have a right to them. Get that through your head. We know what they are for. People don't buy them expecting better gas mileage. They are for protection.

Good for you I never disputed your "rights" have all the guns you want just dont delude yourself that they make your society safer.
Can I ask what happened in your childhood that you feel you need such protection?

Why do you come to every thread like this with your gun control agenda. Why are you more concerned with the weapon than why a 15 year old kid is capable of killing his family (which I believe is what happened, not a hundred percent, but same last name according to MSM).

Why do you come to every thread like this with your pro gun agenda? why are you concerned more with your ability to have a gun to hold than the fact they kill 11,000 plus Americans a year and are increasingly being used in stories like the OP?
I dont see any of you gun nuts being to caring or sympathetic either, its always "yep now theyre gonna come for our guns" thats the sick mentality that the majority of your side, how these deaths are going to effect your gun fetish

You don't care about the victims at all. You are 100 percent agenda driven, but you are just wasting your time because you aren't changing any minds.

LOL
Yeah the record gun sales that accompany all these tradgedies Im sure is the gun nuts way of sympathising with the victims families
Im not agenda driven, whether you have guns or not has no impact on my life other than being sickened every time I read about a kid shooting people up with his families guns. I would say you and your love of guns has more of an agenda posting here than I do.
Sadly I believe you are correct, its hard to change an irrational deluded mind. Seriously, most of you guys are worse than religious nut jobs in your blindness.

Out of curiousity,
You speak of rights, what if it was your "right" to own a slave and it was economically viable for you to have one? would you?
You speak of rights like they are infallible and excluded from moral judgement. Some places a man has the "right" to beat his wife do you support that?

As to your comment on the other thread (stalker much )
I think your an idiot too

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Your sarcasm and condescending tone really don't lend much to your argument. Your former apologies for being insulting to other members in this thread prove hollow.

reply to post by kissy princess


I was being insulting to one member who insults me on a regular basis not everyone.

If you for some reason took it personally.......... I was gonna apologise but instead Ill just say try not to be so sensitive

reply to post by SJE98


These types of murders have happened in Albuquerque in the past. A friend of mine was murdered along with his live in girlfriend and her son a few years back, in the south valley. It didn't make national news because the weapon used was not a firearm, but an extension cord. All three strangled in their living room. I don't know if it has been mentioned in this thread yet, but the murderer in this weekends multiple homicide was one of the 10 children of the pastor. He had 4 children with his wife, I do not know if the other children are form a previous marriage, that is just the information that is on his bio from Calvary Chapel.
The south valley is a rough part of town, though it is actually outside the city limits. There have always been murders, gang violence, and high crime rates there.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Often times rights are derived from moral considerations - this is the basis of law.
Please examine this argument:

1. The right of self-defense is an important right.
2. A firearms prohibition would be a significant violation of the right of self-defense.
3. Therefore, a firearms prohibition would be a serious rights-violation.

This argument is the basis for the concern with arms prohibition. As you can see, the attempt to hold slavery and domestic abuse as analogues to this argument doesn't work.

reply to post by kissy princess


Do you seriously not see how everyone having guns is the reason you need guns?

What about peoples right to walk around without fear of being shot?
How about instead of guns you learn a martial art?

Sorry but from the outside all your pro gun arguments come across as weak and selfish, none of you care what happens to others as long as your safe in your castles with your guns

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Don't get side-tracked, let's stay focused; you wanted to understand how 'rights' fit into this debate, so I offered you an argument - please offer an objection to one of the premises, or demonstrate that the conclusion doesn't follow (in other words, don't shrug it off because it 'sounds' selfish).

reply to post by kissy princess


Sorry but Im not sure what you want exactly

I understand perfectly how rights fit in, they are used by people to excuse otherwise inexcusable behaviour.

I think you are aware that the way your argument is put is very biased but fine,

Yes you have the right to defend yourself but at what cost to others, should you be allowed to have a tank or landmines?
How many of the guns used in shootings were purchased with self defence in mind?
Whats wrong with learning a martial art if your so worried about the need to defend yourself?

You conveniently ignored my question on rights,

If it was your right to have a slave would you?
Do you agree with the fact in some cultures men have the right to beat their wives?

Just because something is a "right" doesnt make it the morally correct or responsible choice

EDIT: will you be chastising those who insulted me or is it only rude when its directed at those who agree with you?

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


You can own a tank, land mines are considered ordinance, so not applicable.

No, I don't think any of us here would own a slave.

Beating your wife is never right.

Most people, don't walk down the street "in fear of being shot", unless maybe you live in Detroit, Chicago, some parts of L.A.. As I've already explained to you in other threads.

You are upset over 11,000 gun deaths, but the 32,000 auto related deaths don't concern you as "cars weren't created to kill"(btw, those are 2011 figures, and 2011 were the lowest in 63 years). We know cars have other uses and were not intended to cause death. Guns also have other uses, in fact, the reason there are so few statistics on guns actually preventing crime is that most times, the gun was never fired. What other uses do they have? Defense, recreation, hunting.

Think of guns like Nuclear Weapons, they act as a deterrent. Nobody wants Nukes to exist, but the reason we haven't seen one used in war since 1945, is because nobody wants somebody to use theirs in retaliation.

reply to post by roughycannon




Land of Cowboys and Gun-fighters... Everyone should take care of his behavior... And to be carefull...

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Normally don't reply to trolling. There is obviously no discussion here. Just you insinuating that people who own guns are, as a group, idiotic murderers. Any attempt to have a discussion devolves into nonsense such as your above comments likening gun ownership to slave ownership. Can you not see that there is absolutely nothing similar between the two? I suppose reality is of no use to your argument so comparing wife beating and slavery to owning inanimate objects makes sense.

What is fascinating to see, however, is how one troll can be so effective. You can come into a thread and make all sorts of asinine statements, accusations, and false straw man arguments and you, as a single troll, can capitalize and control the conversation of the entire thread.

This is how the gun hating nuts in the media work as well. It only takes one piers Morgan to cause dozens of other ppl to have to go on tv to defend against his asinine accusations.

Hey. Are you piers Morgan? Hmmmm.

Reading through the comments on this thread really highlights the fact that the media's choice of words really does impact readers' views of subjects and that all people, including ATS members, have agendas.

For those of you who rail against mainstream media spin - WHY DO YOU PARTICIPATE IN IT??!!


YOU are as much responsible for the stupidity furthered through the media firestorm on this issue as anyone!!!

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


As far as the MSM is concerned, how are we participating in it, other than discussing it. If you post something from an alternate media source, people belittle you for quoting "fear mongers"

reply to post by Bakatono


LMAO

So Im a troll because I disagree with your viewpoint?
Its very rare in these type of threads I initiate contact with people, I usually respond to the OP and from there reply to people.

Dont misquote me, I never said all gun owners are potential murderers (well no more than the rest of us anyway) But they are a hell of a lot more likely to be accesories due to others getting hold of their weapons.
What I have said is that gun owners who dont use them for hunting to survive are selfish and live in fear.

I never compared gun ownership to lsave ownership or wife beating, it was quite clear I was emphasising that just because you have a "right" to something does not make it morally correct to act on it.

What I find fascinating is the average gun nuts mentallity of you must be a troll or anti American if you dont like guns.

I dont make asinine accusations I simply state facts or parallels to try to show you all how silly your being

reply to post by dave_welch


You got my point

Just because you have a "right" to do something doesnt automatically mean you should.

Sorry but Im not gonna get into the whole car, knives, DRs etc etc thing. Its a weak argument that Ive been over countless times. (no offence intended and Im pretty sure weve discussed it on another thread)

As for guns acting as a detterent, you are correct but that is due to the fact they were made exclusively for killling!!!!

Recreation Whatever floats ya boat I guess but surely there are better and more productive hobbies people could take up, its not like people would have nothing to do if guns werent around.

Hunting for food I dont have any issues with, hunting deer or bears for sport though is in my opinion no better than hunting elephants or rhino.

So according to your Atomic bomb comparison shouldnt America have 0 gun deaths and places like Oz or the UK have 1000's due to people not having to worry about retaliation?

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Typical troll. Always climbing up on a cross.

Eta. You absolutely are a troll. The very definition of one. This is because you troll Ats specifically looking for these threads to spout your gun hating nonsense. Doesn't get much more trollish than that.

Trollololol.