Sydney - The failure of gun control in Aus?

Originally posted by magma
Maybe not, but you could certainly stuff a quarter pounder or 2 down someones throat and watch them choke.

I don't have to watch someone do that, I do it to myself

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by SpearMint

 

If people want other people dead they will find a way.

Guns are easy, your right.

But people make the choice.

So the argument is not stupid. It is the core reason why there is even an argument at all.

it is a bit disingenuous, although technically correct.

If that scum bag Adam Lanza only had access to a knife - he may have killed a few people but certainly NOT 20 odd children.

So it is a bit of a tired trite line

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by SpearMint

 

If people want other people dead they will find a way.

Guns are easy, your right.

But people make the choice.

So the argument is not stupid. It is the core reason why there is even an argument at all.

But my whole point is they don't always find another way. There are huge downsides to other methods, the main one being it's a lot easier to get caught, it's messy, it's harder, they can fight back. Guns make killing a lot more attractive and this may persuade some people in to doing it. Sure some people will use another method and succeed, but at least they're more likely to get caught and their victims have a greater chance of survival. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I think it is in a very large portion of the US's gun homicides, and definately in school/public massacres.

reply to post by DarknStormy


Lol.

You can't blame mcdonalds for your self destructive behaviors, any more than you can blame guns for killing people.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Lol.

You can't blame mcdonalds for your self destructive behaviors, any more than you can blame guns for killing people.

Guns do kill people !! If in the hands of psycho killers ... for goodness sake give it up !

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by SpearMint

 

If people want other people dead they will find a way.

Guns are easy, your right.

But people make the choice.

So the argument is not stupid. It is the core reason why there is even an argument at all.

But my whole point is they don't always find another way. There are huge downsides to other methods, the main one being it's a lot easier to get caught, it's messy, it's harder, they can fight back. Guns make killing a lot more attractive and this may persuade some people in to doing it. Sure some people will use another method and succeed, but at least they're more likely to get caught and their victims have a greater chance of survival. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I think it is in a very large portion of the US's gun homicides, and definately in school/public massacres.

I do not disagree with you on that. You make a reasonable argument in this.

But why do I have to give up my guns when I have done nothing wrong.

reply to post by DarknStormy

We had the same problem down here in Melbourne a while back and even though it was gang related, innocent people were also murdered in the process.

You referred to this earlier, your talking about Christopher Hudson in 2007, yes??

The dude was a total loose cannon and an exception when considering the use and availability of illegal firearms. Unfortunately, he did kill an innocent bystander and injured two others.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Lol.

You can't blame mcdonalds for your self destructive behaviors, any more than you can blame guns for killing people.

I'm not blaming guns, I was just pointing out that maybe Sydney is becoming a good example that gun control isn't as effective as its made out to be. I understand that compared to most countries our gun crime is low and we haven't had another Port Arthur but we still have a lot of incidents and as much as most are shootings without killing anyone, they could of been at the same time.

As for Mc Ronalds, well people make their own choices and by the obesity in this country, a lot made the wrong choice

Originally posted by magma

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by SpearMint

 

If people want other people dead they will find a way.

Guns are easy, your right.

But people make the choice.

So the argument is not stupid. It is the core reason why there is even an argument at all.

But my whole point is they don't always find another way. There are huge downsides to other methods, the main one being it's a lot easier to get caught, it's messy, it's harder, they can fight back. Guns make killing a lot more attractive and this may persuade some people in to doing it. Sure some people will use another method and succeed, but at least they're more likely to get caught and their victims have a greater chance of survival. I'm not saying this is always the case, but I think it is in a very large portion of the US's gun homicides, and definately in school/public massacres.

I do not disagree with you on that. You make a reasonable argument in this.

But why do I have to give up my guns when I have done nothing wrong.

And that too is a good point, but I think that the American public thinks they need guns more than they actually do. You have to weigh it up, and keep in mind that psychos and criminals are also citizens, you can't always tell if they are or will one day be a danger to others.

Originally posted by Perhaps
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

We had the same problem down here in Melbourne a while back and even though it was gang related, innocent people were also murdered in the process.

You referred to this earlier, your talking about Christopher Hudson in 2007, yes??

The dude was a total loose cannon and an exception when considering the use and availability of illegal firearms. Unfortunately, he did kill an innocent bystander and injured two others.

Thats exactly what I was talking about. But with that we also had the Gangland killings. I know they were drug dealers etc but a couple of innocents were also killed in those murders.

reply to post by SpearMint


Probably the most important thing to consider is, like you and me, people do not like being told what is or isn't good for them.

Okay, so Australia isn't utopia, we have a global economy and some people are both criminals and good craftsfolk.

Are you saying that America has solved its gang problem with its gun culture and God-given right to pack heat?

I'm not saying I support gun control but what kind of case are you trying to build?

reply to post by SpearMint


It depends how you look at it. By the constitution the Americans have every right to own assault rifles. The reason behind that is to protect themselves from tyranny or a foreign invasion and as much as it may not seem like a reality right now, it can happen at any time. When your only defense is confiscated, what are you going to protect yourself with? I can see why they want there guns and a few bolt action rifles are not going to stand up to any military.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

But by the sounds of it, the US isn't going to give up their guns regardless of what the government passes. Giving up semi automatic weapons is pretty much waving a white flag to the enemy in my eyes.

reply to post by DarknStormy

Sydney - The failure of gun control in Aus?,

Maybe this may help... it's valid up to 2009/10 and it states an average of 19 gun related homicides p/a in the 10 years prior.

Quite modest considering a population of 20+ million and over 3 million legal firearms at the time.

aic.gov.au


... and please note the declining trend.

reply to post by Perhaps


I have seen the stats over the years but over the last year or two, I have noticed a lot more shootings, homocides etc. It would be interesting to get a comparison of those years to see how they line up with the chart. Now I'm not just pointing out murders, I am pointing out the overall crimes committed with guns.

From Jan 2012 Sydney has been hit by a spate of drive-by shootings in the past six months and police fear it is only a matter of time before an innocent bystander is killed.

Police are investigating an overnight shooting in the suburb of Bankstown, when a bullet narrowly missed a two-month-old baby asleep in her cot.

Yesterday, men in two cars opened fire on each other in the city's south-west, and on Monday two houses were sprayed with bullets in separate drive-by attacks.

Any one of those incidents could of killed innocent bystanders.

21/12/2011A man has been shot twice in front of his wife and children during a home invasion in Sydney's west. Emergency services were called to the townhouse on Camden Street at Fairfield Heights just after 2:00am (AEDT).

Again, any one of those people could of been in the way of a bullet..

4/1/2012Three men are being hunted by police after they fatally shot a man in the head during a brazen daylight attack outside his home in south Sydney.Emergency services were called to Selmon Street at Sans Souci at noon, where police found a man in his 30s lying in the street with a gunshot wound to his head.

He was taken to St George Hospital where he died.

Now they are only 3 incidents where children could of been killed, luckily they weren't. This is why I'm interested in finding out what the stats would be like over the last couple of years. There seems to be an increasing gun crime rate in Sydney whether it is gang related or not.

Originally posted by magma
Guns do not kill people . People kill people.

but people with guns, kill too many people!

reply to post by DarknStormy


I'm going to stick my neck out a little here, but if we're talking about an up-tick in gun violence in Sydney's southern and western suburbs - we're talking about gang wankers of Middle Eastern descent... those, plus OLB's in all states will be the cause of most of the rise in gun violence in recent years.

Police in all states are well aware of innocents getting caught up in the crossfire, hence the banning of known OLB's in licenced premises in built up areas in some states already.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
What people don't realise about the incidents in Australia is people doing drive by shootings and putting innocent children and families at risk.

Not sure I get the point.

So. Everyone should have a gun? What if they don't want one.

How is this going to change the fact that leb bikers are shooting each other?

I don't see mr and mrs ogrady from #52 going "oh oh the bikers are at it again, luv pass the rifle." as he puts on his slippers and goes out to shh the noisy gangs.

I don't see what the point is, of using this article to say gun control has failed. You get caught with an illegal gun you're stuffed.

Either way, had every adult aussie had an ak47 at their disposal, the bikers would still have illegal guns.

And we'll still have fatal shootings such as a few months ago with two teenagers, one taking his dads farm weapon and shooting the other over $100 drug debt.

If laws prevented crime we would have only 1 law. dont break the law.

reply to post by PLAYERONE01


5 channels aye?

7, 7mate, 7two, 9, 9go, 9gem, 10, 11, one, abc, abc2, abc3, sbs, sbs2, nitv, wtv, 4me and don't forget, ABC news 24 hours.

Free to air.

You need a bigger coat hanger mate.

news up the bum on abc. or al jazeera world news on sbs.

ahh sorry, you're bagging the msm here.. carry on.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
If people want to get a gun, they can get one with ease.

Sure, I'll get one with my fish and chips.

What sort should I get, shot gun, pistol, .50 cal.. oh the choices, it's too easy to get guns here, I wish there were less choices.

Australia, guns on every corner. You just gotta know *taps nose* where to look.