More to getting into heaven than most Christians believe?

I have almost always been a Christian, although the only bible experience I really ever got was in church. Just recently, I decided that it was time for me to read the bible myself. I opened to the very beginning of the new testament. As I'm reading, I notice something. This phrase suggests that, although most Christians think the opposite, believing in Christ and "accept him into their heart" isn't enough to get into heaven. It starts with Mathew 7:22. It reads the following:

22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Does anyone have any thoughts of this? The whole chapter seems to suggest that only a select few will get into heaven. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that kinda scares me haha.

I think that what Jesus is talking about here is those who are doing these things for their own ends rather in the true of Jesus' teachings.

But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one ...

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done ...

And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
From Acts Chapter 8

Christ is speaking of those individuals who profess faith in him but are not true Christians. These false Christians come in many forms and in these last days will grow in both number and influence.

It is also true that the path to Heaven is narrow and few find it. From my readings of the Holy Bible it�s clear to me that most who have lived on this earth will not make it. My heart is both saddened by this fact and also rejoices that I was selected to receive his blessing.

Keep reading your Bible with an open and humble heart always seeking the truth. God will not hide his truth from those who earnestly seek his face.

Unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly father is perfect.

- Yeshua of Nazareth









The Pharisees are symbolic of the egos that we carry within that need to be disintigrated, as to enter Heaven instead of returning to Malkuth, The Valley of Tears.....




Peace

My friend had a near death experience a few years ago and though he could not remember everything he did tell me that you actually need the following to get into heaven:

a) Two forms of valid I.D.
b) One pair white socks, one pair black socks.
c) a toothbrush.
d) a pure soul or complete set of Star Trek collectible plates (entrants choice)
e) A certified check in the amount of $567.79 made out to J.C. Property management.

When St. Peter realized he didn't have a pure soul or plates he sent him back.

He's looking for a "Spock Plays 3-D Chess" plate if anyone knows of one.

Spiderj

Tamahu,

The scripture you quoted:

Matthew 5:20 KJV
For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said these words when he gave the Sermon on the Mount. He was being truthful and letting the people know that it would be impossible for them to enter heaven on their own merit. The scribes and Pharisees were the most religious men of their time and even they fell short of God�s requirement, which is perfection.

Jesus requires each of us to recognize our sin, feel sorry for having committed it and turn from it. Then we are to place our faith in him alone for our salvation.

Originally posted by Machine
Christ is speaking of those individuals who profess faith in him but are not true Christians. These false Christians come in many forms and in these last days will grow in both number and influence.

It is also true that the path to Heaven is narrow and few find it. From my readings of the Holy Bible it�s clear to me that most who have lived on this earth will not make it. My heart is both saddened by this fact and also rejoices that I was selected to receive his blessing.

Keep reading your Bible with an open and humble heart always seeking the truth. God will not hide his truth from those who earnestly seek his face.

Give me an example of why you are sure that you were selected. I am one of those "you don't know whether you have been or not" type folks.

It is impossible to get into heaven on your own merit?

How do you plan on getting into heaven on someone else's? You American protestants are always spouting this kind of modern nonsense.

It's like saying, "my friend is a genius, and I want to join Mensa. Therefore, I am going to have my friend come with me, and I can get in with his membership." Obviously, Mensa is a club for genuises, and you are not a genius. Therefore, it is not proper that you should enter.

Vicarious atonement is entirely a recent invention. It's wishful thinking. it's the attempt of the unworthy and sinful to touch the robes of Christ, and get healed after a lifetime of errors and sins. Recall, that only a handful of persons were able to receive this kind of special treatment. If I were you, I would bank on becoming perfect, like He commanded.

What is this strange thought you American Protestants have! Only saints enter into heaven. You do know about saints, right? If you "cannot be one" then that is no one's problem but yours. Saints suffer for what they attain. They suffer persecution from living people, bad spirits, and the very devil himself. They overcome all of this, and wash themselves from this world.

Most of you modern protestants live quite western lives, totally immersed in western culture and its vices. You seem to think that this ok. You seem to think the typical American lifestyle is somehow approved of Jesus, like he is some sort of Cosmic Uncle Sam.

The whole point you are missing is that it is HARD to get into heaven. You don't ride on the coat-tails of Jesus. I am going to introduce a new concept to you - worthiness and justice. You cannot receive worthiness from someone else. Justice means that you receive what you earn. If you did not, then this would be quite unfair to the ones who earned their own way.

There must be another kind of place for those who do not attain the perfection Jesus spoke of. In fact, there must be many kinds of places, and many different mansions. We do not all belong in the same place, that would be an act of cruelty to some of us.

Be wise then, and quit insulting the saints with your silly protestant born-again fallacy. It is possible to be perfect. It is extremely hard. It is possible to become like Jesus was, at least in some degree. But for Americans it is extremely, extremely hard. I know it is, and I know that because of this you think it is impossible.

Arkaleus

This link answers your question:

www.gotquestions.org...

As for me, I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I adhere to the Holy Bible as the standard for all truth and rest on the finished work of Jesus Christ.

Arkaleus,

How can you ever hope to become perfect when you have already failed to meet the standard? To be perfect, as Christ was and is perfect, is to live the entirety of your life having never sinned. Arkaleus, it�s impossible for you to now meet God�s standard. No amount of good works will blot out the stain of your sin. You have two choices, you can pay the price yourself upon your death or you can turn to Jesus Christ, the decision is yours to make. A better analogy of Christ atonement would be the following story.

A girl stands before a judge for having violated several traffic laws. The judge orders her to pay the fine for her violations but she cannot. If she cannot afford to pay the penalty for her crime she will be forced to go to jail. However, the judge is also her father. He steps down from the bench, removes his robes and approaches her position behind the defendant�s desk. He then removes the money to pay the fine on her behalf. She is now free to go.

Each one of us has sinned and the only penalty for sin is death and eternal separation from God. God did not have to do anything to save us from ourselves but in his unequalled love for us he did. He sent his only Son down to this earth to live as one of us and die a horrible death so that a way would be made for us to be with him forever. Jesus Christ paid that price for everyone.

I�m not a perfect man. I need Jesus Christ.

Sin is when light is removed from you. God manifests in people through this light. Perfection is the fullness of this light, and the opening of the divine awareness in a person.

Jesus made it easier for this light to return to people. That is how He "saved' mankind. I have seen this light come and go. There is not some cosmic death penalty for jaywalking. That's is just the silliness of our understanding.

The process of perfection is the removal of the foul energies and matter of the world from your being. Becoming perfect is when the light of Christ and God is able to attach itself to you, and fill you. This is what salvation is. That has to happen while you live, because that is how it works.

You assume a great many things about me, and everyone else. That is your modern-born-again cop out. You think everyone is in the same state of darkness, yet this is impossible. For then we would all be the same being, with the same sins, and the same minds. Even you must admit that this is not the case. Therefore, each of us possesses a different nature, a different intellgience. Each of us possesses a different fullness, and even the saints are not equal among themselves.

I think you made sin a part of your faith, and this has limited you. You think there is this barrier between you and perfection. It is only in your mind. Sin is not what you think it is, because you are still caught in it, and cannot see anything outside of it.

Some of us have different perspectives. Light returns to a man, even if he has done things that you consider worthy of hell and death. Man's understandings and man's laws often are not similar to God's understanding. You deny His mercy and Spirit by saying that we are all in irretrievable sin and darkness. We are not.

Perhaps you should keep your own problems to yourself, instead of applying them to everyone else like you and those in your sect do.

Arkaleus

Originally posted by Herman
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then I will profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

7:22 is an example of the subtleties of pride.

Simply, they judge themselves worthy of entering heaven.

To put it into context a little bit:

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

What is "the will of my Father which is in heaven"?

Matthew 22:36-40
Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Love God.
Love your neighbour. (which is also loving God for it is his will)
All other rules are built upon this foundation.

This is why I speak of love, pride, and humility as often as I do.

Is a male orgasm a "sin?"

What is the penalty?

Curious what you have to say about that.

Arkaleus

Originally posted by Arkaleus
Is a male orgasm a "sin?"

What is the penalty?

Curious what you have to say about that.

Arkaleus

Lust is the illusion of pride that leads to the sin of which you speak.

Edit:

Matthew 5:27-28
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


[Edited on 28-10-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Originally posted by Arkaleus
It is impossible to get into heaven on your own merit?

Yes. You need Jesus. That's who's merit you need to get into heaven...unless you've never sinned.

How do you plan on getting into heaven on someone else's?

Jesus's merit.

So let me guess:

You must think that the male orgasm is something from Satan. You must think that it is wicked, nasty, evil, and something totally foul.

Surely I am not a foolish twit. I know exactly what you say it is, and exactly what you say while you are having one, and exactly how you feel about it.

Still hiding it, eh? I am going to poke you there, because I will not allow you hide behind your books, or Jesus. I submit that it is the core of your awareness of sin, guilt, and shame. I think that inwardly you desire it greatly, but outwardly deny it, just like a little child.

Little children, come away from this silliness. Grow in your Liberty, not in your shame.

I will ask you this, and be serious about it: What does God have to do with your orgasm? And what would you have it be? Does He rejoice in your laughter, but not in the joy of your entire being? What on earth made you so silly in your understanding?

Now we all know that the evil powers desire this too, but a wise person witholds it from them, lest they devour him. Yet it is something central to a person's being, do not lie to me and say it is something you do not know.
We all know this. But until you are free in your understanding of this mystery, you are a little child pulling his own members, hiding from those who would spy upon him.

This simple question is enough to see the fundamental deficiency of your creed. It is incomplete, flawed, and without any sort of real authority. Your bible book cannot teach you this, your preachers will run away from you, or deliver to the shame and ridiculous sins of his own understanding.

Why does this topic so agitate you? It is better to have a sweet climax in the joy of your own pleasure, and to dote upon the sweet fruits, than to flagellate the flesh and to circumsise it, crying as the hypocrits do in public, yet in their bedsheets lie the truth of the matter.

What is needed is wisdom concerning this part of our being. How it works, what it does, and how to perfect even this. I ask you this, brother, what is a perfect orgasm? If we go to heaven as perfect beings, how is this aspect of our being perfected? Do be honest and reply to this as I have asked.

Okay, I go to a Catholic School and there always judging and going "If you dont belive this you go to hell." "Zach, if you dont believe in God your gonna go to hell" "Zach, if you think abortion is okay then your gonna go to hell." But in reality, no one (in your religion) on Earth can tell yall what needs to be done to get into heaven.

You, Herman, telling us that we NEED Jesus to get into heaven, is beyond you.

Its funny how you say you started at the New Testament, I suggest reading the Old Testament (preferably Exodus) and seeing how utterly hateful and cruel your God is to people that have done no harm at all. Read it, hes a #ing asshole to the Israelites thats didnt do anything.

By the way, the Gospels werent written by the people they are named after, theyd be ancient at the time of writing. It was written from Oral Tradition passed from person to person, and finally put into Bookish form.

Whatever, Im sticking with my Entire Bible is a Metaphor idea. Any omnipotent God that wants us (whom he LOVES) to worship him always, or go to hell and be tortured for eternity, is really #ed up. Wow...some loving God, right?

Edit...after rereading this I see that I have rambled...*sniff* proud

[Edited on 28-10-2004 by dreamlandmafia]

Originally posted by Arkaleus
So let me guess:

You must think that the male orgasm is something from Satan. You must think that it is wicked, nasty, evil, and something totally foul.

Surely I am not a foolish twit. I know exactly what you say it is, and exactly what you say while you are having one, and exactly how you feel about it.

Still hiding it, eh? I am going to poke you there, because I will not allow you hide behind your books, or Jesus. I submit that it is the core of your awareness of sin, guilt, and shame. I think that inwardly you desire it greatly, but outwardly deny it, just like a little child.

Little children, come away from this silliness. Grow in your Liberty, not in your shame.

I will ask you this, and be serious about it: What does God have to do with your orgasm? And what would you have it be? Does He rejoice in your laughter, but not in the joy of your entire being? What on earth made you so silly in your understanding?

Now we all know that the evil powers desire this too, but a wise person witholds it from them, lest they devour him. Yet it is something central to a person's being, do not lie to me and say it is something you do not know.
We all know this. But until you are free in your understanding of this mystery, you are a little child pulling his own members, hiding from those who would spy upon him.

This simple question is enough to see the fundamental deficiency of your creed. It is incomplete, flawed, and without any sort of real authority. Your bible book cannot teach you this, your preachers will run away from you, or deliver to the shame and ridiculous sins of his own understanding.

Why does this topic so agitate you? It is better to have a sweet climax in the joy of your own pleasure, and to dote upon the sweet fruits, than to flagellate the flesh and to circumsise it, crying as the hypocrits do in public, yet in their bedsheets lie the truth of the matter.

What is needed is wisdom concerning this part of our being. How it works, what it does, and how to perfect even this. I ask you this, brother, what is a perfect orgasm? If we go to heaven as perfect beings, how is this aspect of our being perfected? Do be honest and reply to this as I have asked.

W-W-W-W-WHAT!?!?!??! Why on earth did you decide that this topic was suddenly about orgasms!?!?!? It feels good, so it must be ok in God's eye? What about stealing? That feel really good! We don't do it, because it's not the right thing to do. And if we did steal, we could repent and be forgiven! If you want to talk about orgasms, I don't think any male here above 15 is gonna deny that they've had an orgasm. That's part of human nature. Does that mean it's ok to look at porn and have sex with woman who you don't know very well? No. A lot of things that are human nature are seen as bad in the bible. We have to at least attempt to overcome them, or pray for forgiveness. Arkaleus, what DO you believe in!? You claim to believe in Jesus sometimes, but you seem to call many of his teaching flawed.

Dreamlandmafia:

You bring up valid points. I've often considered them myself, even posted about them. The difference is that I'm still seeking answers. I still have faith. I believe that there are answers somewhere out there to all these questions that I have.

I brought this up because it is the soft spot of most western male Christians.

They don't understand the male orgasm, they were never taught about it, and they are quite silly about it. Women cloud this understanding, because they are obsessed with it to the point of madness. Can it be separated from their madness, and reduced to its basic understanding?

They way western culture treats sexuality and this aspect of our bodies and minds is about 1/2 a notch above the animal kingdom.

I stick "Christians" with this point because it usually sends them running, they don't know how to handle it because there aren't any bible quotes on it. The bible doesn't teach us how to correctly orgasm. It doesn't teach us of the powers of this event, how it is preyed upon by evil, manipulated in us by unseen forces, and we are left to their mercy.

It is silly to think that we will not experience these forces in our lives.

My tough point is this: What is the the perfection of the climax? What happens to this force once a being is perfected? I have heard many, many different ideas in all the books I have read. Some say that we must never again enjoy the orgasm, that we must forever swear it off to gain any kind of spiritual power. I have experienced many things, and some conflict with one another.

My experience is that it is just like any other powerful force that emanates from the body. I have seen good come from it, and evil come from it. So how does it relate to God, and perfection? It seems silly, and useless to ignore it, or to think that it is something people in heaven just seem to "forget" about.

So lets address this issue: (no pun intended!) What is the male orgasm? Desensitize yourself to it. You were conditioned from childhood to lie about this, so you need to get over it. What does the orgasm have to do with the powers of the soul, love, and the path to perfection. It cannot be evil by its nature, but perhaps it can be manipulated.

It seems important. What do you have to say about it?

Ha, a refreshing change from the diatribe. I've already given you a college course in gnostic thought as it is. Now lets look at ourselves, without flinching.

Arkaleus

[Edited on 28-10-2004 by Arkaleus]

"Liquor and fornication must be banished from the bosom of Gnostic homes. However, we must not be fanatics. Whosoever is incapable of handling one drink at a social gathering is as weak as someone who cannot control his liquor and gets drunk. Fornication is something entirely different. Fornication is unforgivable. Whosoever ejaculates the seminal liquor is a fornicator. Thus, for those who reach orgasm, for fornicators, the abyss and Second Death await."

Orgasm?

:shk:

There are three classes of Tantrism: white, black and grey. In White Tantrism, ejaculation of the semen is prohibited; in Black Tantrism, ejaculation of the semen is obligatory; in Grey Tantrism, ejaculation of the semen is not considered important .In the long term, Grey Tantrism is transformed into Black Tantrism. In White Tantrism, the serpent ascends along the length of the medulla of the spinal cord. In Black Tantrism, the serpent descends, projecting itself down from the coccyx towards the atomic infernos of man, becoming Satan's tail.

Normally, the Hindu yogi sits in the style of Buddha, cross-legged, and the yogini sits on his legs with her legs encircling the yogi's body and crossed behind him. Then they connect sexually, with the pair withdrawing before orgasm to avoid seminal ejaculation.

The best asana (sacred posture) for the Maithuna is the normal one: breast against breast, face-to-face, solar plexus against solar plexus in order to form a perfect androgyne; later, the man and woman withdraw from the sexual act before orgasm and seminal ejaculation.

And of course, the single person has to remain in Brahmacharya until they find their spouse.


Pranayama(breath control) is needed for one to be able to control the most powerful Sexual Energy.



Of course fanatics will object, thinking that they can enter Heaven as fornicators; just because they believe.....

:shk:




Peace