Man shopping with Assault Rifle Strapped to his Back at Utah J.C. Penney

In my opinion, I would rather see people openly carry what they have! What I mean is, should he be meaning to take an action with it, you have a minor chance of seeing it coming. Now, if you were a mouthy sort, as I am, and ya got on the nerves of anyone else in the store, how would you know who has guns in their car outside and who does not? I fear greater what is not seen, but is assumed. In short, I guess it means to me that honesty is the best policy.

I want to make it clear that I am completely pro 2nd amendment, but I think this guy is doing more to hurt the cause than to help it. I know if I were there with my kids I'd be freaking out.

I get the statement he's trying to make, but the fact is you don't need to be armed for battle to go shopping. A pistol would be fine, but this is serving no purpose other than scaring people. Think about it...anyone that's already anti-gun, and any mothers that are still shaken up from Sandy Hook are only going to be turned off to guns by seeing this.

Wrabbit had a point too when he said that soldiers are trained to use extreme caution with these weapons. I was issued an M16 in basic training (I broke my hip before it was all over, so I'm free now) and you got your ass jumped all over if that muzzle was pointed at anything other than a target or the ground. They're not meant to be taken on a casual trip to the department store. Save it for the revolution.


To clarify one more time, I am pro 2nd amendment, and I'm only telling you how I'd feel if I saw this guy in the mall.

This guy is a dumb ass, and a menace. He's only trying to provoke people.

Let's say you are walking into the mall with your kids, and you also happen to carry a concealed firearm. Now, you see this guy coming toward you with an AR15 - how are you supposed to know if this guy is sane and abiding the law, OR another James Holmes getting ready to light the place up? If I were to cross paths with this guy, I would consider it my civic duty to draw my weapon on him and detain him until police got there to determine his intentions. Of course it would also be very easy for that to escalate tensions...

Again, this idiot is just trying to provoke a reaction. NOT helping the situation with gun violence at all.

Originally posted by LeLeu


is'nt the US the greatest democracy in the world?

Yep.

Even with our failures.

Originally posted by LeLeu
Some of you suffer serious paranoia

And some of you are too blind to understand the History of the United States, and the World.

Governments kill too. Sometimes their OWN people.......Millions of them.

Now be honest, how would you feel if he was an American
born & raised liberal black Muslim with an AR-15 and a carry license
in a mall, in Utah? What do you think would happen to him when he walked in?

Look at the picture. Any police officers with a comment on this particular incident?

I know that many people here on ATS equate the police as the tools that will knock down doors when the government passes laws dictating that guns of one type or another are illegal and as such, must be removed. Similar to prohibition, when law enforcement entered businesses and homes to remove stockpiles of then illegal liquor. Some people resisted, and both citizens and police officers were injured and killed.

Laws against possession on certain firearms already exist, and these guns are taken when law enforcement is aware of their location, and suspects are arrested. Of course, the same thing happens when officers enforce laws regarding other illegal physical items like drugs, stolen property, etc.

Officers enforce laws that they may disagree with every day; from seatbelts to marijuana and abortion protestors to posession of fully automatic weapons - they arrest people that violate the laws related to these issues, even though personally they strongly disagree with them.

Why? Because they took an oath to do exactly that - enforce the law without favor or prejudice, regardless of their personal feelings or opinion.

Why? Are they like the Nazis, who enforced law, even though they knew the laws were murderous and against all human concept of compassion or reality? NO - they are not Nazis - automotons that blindly follow dictates made a madman. The difference is the way America works. They enforce the laws because:

We elect people by voting. (Lots of people are unhappy because the person we backed did not win.) Those that are elected then represent our vote then passing laws using a majority vote in the legislatures from city hall on up to the Senate. Those laws are then judged as to their adherence to the Constitution by the courts. (Lots of us read the Constitution differently than the Courts, so we are again unhappy). However, the result is a law that has been created and vetted by people we voted for, and is therefore a result we the voters created.

Which means the laws now exist because a majority of "us" put it on the books. We hire people to enforce those laws without favor. Those people, are sometimes injured and killed trying to do the job of enforcing the laws, and therefore trained in methods to try to keep everyone alive and well during the process of enforcing the laws we created.

Most of the methods that officers use doing their job are based on history of other officers actions while enforcing laws. (Many law enforcement agencies are clamoring for the currently unreleased details of the Aurora mass murders so that they can develop training for their officers that will keep people alive if they are unfortunate enough to respond to an "active shooter" incident that is similar to it.) Keeping everyone alive means you have to learn from others that do the job.


Look at the picture. Many of you see a patriot, or a man standing up for his rights, or an example for us all, and might shake his hand for and say thanks.

Now - put on a uniform, gun belt, vest, and a badge. Go to briefing, where you have already heard many other incidents described where a shooter has killed multiple people. In fact, you used to only carry a pump shotgun in your unit's gun rack - now, because of large amount of bad people that are well armed with a semi-auto rifle equipped with a large magazine of high velocity bullets and a high-power scope, you also slide a "long gun" into the rack in order to sort of level the odds if a bad thing happens. Of you go, alone in the patrol car.

You receive a radio report of a "man with a gun - possible assault weapon". (I know, I know, its not REALLY - get real) Other units respond to back you; again, history tells you that any "gun" call increases the probability of your death. People point you towards the cash registers in the store at the incident location. Back-up is still 5 out. Columbine changed your training about this type of call; in the past, you followed policy by hunkering down and waiting for plenty of help to arrive before anyone goes in. Thats exactly what the cops did at that school, and kids died that did not have to. So, right now, your updated training - if there is a gun, especially a long gun, mandates that you make contact right now, taking that risk to try to save lives. Fortunately, you brought your long gun too. You turn the corner and look towards the counter.

Look at the picture.

Thinking about "gun rights' right now? Hard to think about them under a sweaty vest.

Regardless of your stance on the issue, remember that the pepole that enforce your law - even if you don't like it - (we voted for the people that passed that law) - are there in the real world, facing a person with an assault weapon. Stuff your enraged ego away for a minute and really put yourself in his/her shoes.

Look at the picture...

Originally posted by alienreality
No civilian can legally "take action" against a bank robber.. If you aren't police, you can't take the law into your own hands.. By taking action, you could end up being charged..

Your whole point is false. The right to arrest people isn't "police only". Civillians have just as much right to arrest a person committing a felony such as bank robbery. For misdemeanors it varies a little.

Beautiful. As Prime Minister I would invite this man for dinner and demand the queen make him a knight in my personal legislature with her highness.

I spent a lot of time in Arizona with my career and there is a lot of open carry there as well as in Utah
it's just something people are kinda used to seeing a pistol on someone hip
the rifle not so much but hey I get the guys point.

I truly believe that a fear of firearms is really just a lack of knowledge

I have enough knowledge of guns to know that they are very dangerous and are far, far more likely to injure or kill your friends and family than anyone else.

Oh, and having an assault rifle won't keep the feds from catching you if they want to, so the whole argument is bogus.

I say let's enact our democratic right, under our major democratic senate to be civil disobedient citizens.

Ayn Rand sates:
"Civil disobedience may be justifiable in some cases, when and if an individual disobeys
a law in order to bring an issue to court, as a test case. Such an action involves respect for legality,
and a protest directed only at a particular law which the individual seeks an opportunity to be unjust.
The same is true for a group of individuals when and if the risks involved are their own."

Originally posted by CB328

I truly believe that a fear of firearms is really just a lack of knowledge

I have enough knowledge of guns to know that they are very dangerous and are far, far more likely to injure or kill your friends and family than anyone else.

Oh, and having an assault rifle won't keep the feds from catching you if they want to, so the whole argument is bogus.

You should really do some research before you put your foot in your mouth like that. Gun related deaths are not even in the top 100 of causes of death. They are only 1.5 percent of deaths over all. You are hundreds of times more likely to die at the hands of a doctor or in car accident. So you thinking you know is a joke you are just repeating false rhetoric.

Originally posted by streetfightingman
I say let's enact our democratic right, under our major democratic senate to be civil disobedient citizens.

Ayn Rand sates:
"Civil disobedience may be justifiable in some cases, when and if an individual disobeys
a law in order to bring an issue to court, as a test case. Such an action involves respect for legality,
and a protest directed only at a particular law which the individual seeks an opportunity to be unjust.
The same is true for a group of individuals when and if the risks involved are their own."

Yes we have democratic rights but don’t forget we live in a republic.

Point 1...

I am ex military too. This guy is ill disciplined and an accident waiting to happen.

Point 2.....

If he was seriously intending to protect anyone in such closed surrounding. And not hit bystanders. He would not use that weapon anyway.


I fully support the right to bear arms. But an IQ tests should come with a license.

Originally posted by alienreality
No civilian can legally "take action" against a bank robber.. If you aren't police, you can't take the law into your own hands.. By taking action, you could end up being charged..

CITIZEN ARREST – WHEN, WHERE, HOW AND WHY

“Actually citizens have more powers of arrest than police,”... “If you are an adult, and you witness a crime, your duty is to make an arrest. You need to be the eye-witness. You cannot act on hearsay. But if you see a crime being committed, you are obligated to make an arrest during the crime or soon after.”

“A police officer cannot make an arrest outside his limited jurisdiction,” Von Luebbert explained. “And they can be sued for false arrest.” As a citizen, you can arrest anyone, anywhere in America, and again — it is your duty as a citizen to make the arrest. You can call the police for help, but you do not need to ask for help.”

www.greeleygazette.com...

reply to post by opthetan

Why? Because they took an oath to do exactly that - enforce the law without favor or prejudice, regardless of their personal feelings or opinion.

No they didn't they took an oath to uphold the constitution. They are not obligated to enforce unconstitutional laws. and it is well settled Supreme Court case laws that anything passed that is unconstitutional is as if it was never passed.

Officers a responsible for their actions even during their job. We did not vote for these laws politicians voted them in and we are not obligated to follow unconstitutional and unjust laws. That would be like saying if the passed a law legalizing rape and saying we have to obey because they passed it. That would never fly. That is an extreme example but less extreme unconstitutional laws should be no less ignored and and shunned bu the people and officers alike.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by pryingopen3rdeye

 

Whats to prevent someone from smacking this guy over the head when hes not looking and taking his weapon?

Would only take one solid hit and you get a free gun and maybe some ammo too.

just another hypothetical you drew up from imagination, once again wait till post action to pass judgement, dont judge based off imagination and fear, innocent until proven guilty vs guilty until proven innocent

Originally posted by Speckle
its not 1776 , bro
in fact u can shove the 2nd amendment down your pie hole.. its not helping anyone but self serving paranoid delusionists

edit on 18-1-2013 by Speckle because: (no reason given)

you opinion is based on fear, so whos the one thats paranoid? rhetorical

Professionals DO NOT behave this way.In fact this scares us.Anytime someone leaves the magazine in that is a live weapon.I have no choice but to cover the idiot with great care by any means neccessary.
It is provacative and as such it is a fear tactic. I don't need this to prove a thing about guns.
Not to mention you are walking around with a "shoot me" sign on from concealed carry point of view.

Originally posted by LeLeu
reply to post by hawkiye

 

The only whack jobs are those who want to disarm us and only allow government officers to have firearms so we can be like North Korea...

Dude, Australia and other countries have had firearm bands in place for many years now, and we're totally fine. Nobody has invaded us, our government has'nt locked us away into camps and we're certainly not like North Korea.

Good for you however if your government decides to go North Korea on you then you are SOL aren't you? Gee its not like governments didn't disarm their citizens and murder 250 million of them the last century. Thanks we'll keep our guns rather the trust the government will always remain resonably benevolent.

Also I hear the black market gun trade in Australia is doing quite well...