Man shopping with Assault Rifle Strapped to his Back at Utah J.C. Penney

YOu can walk into a bank in Alaska with a loaded rifle and ski mask and the tellers don't bat an eye.

reply to post by kosmicjack


You really think that of yourselves.

What you describe sound like sensible human beings. However if you think that’s how you guys are coming off then you are not paying attention and you certainly aren’t listening. I will agree with this part of your assessment of the issue though.

Anyway...really what we have in this thread is opposing viewpoints that will never, ever agree.

I will not bother describing how the anti-gun lobby comes off. If you haven’t heard us the first thousand times one more will not help matters. But I will thank you because I see now debating will not change a single thing anymore, not after reading that self-assessment. I think I will just have fun with the threads now and imitate the opposition.

reply to post by kosmicjack

that would be a mistake if you did.
i copied your exact words and changed it from gun enthusiasts to anti-gun activists.
otherwise, you said it, not i.

I'm not suggesting, nor do I think the majority of Americans would suggest, that your 2nd Amendment rights be denied

need a refresher ?

They will not be convinced that no one is trying to deny them their 2nd Amendment rights

why would anyone need be convinced of that ... it's been an ongoing battle for well over 100yrs.

reply to post by dc4lifeskater


I practise the Second almost everyday. Open Carry.
Now my answer to why I open carry when I have a conceal lic.
It is more likely that someone who wants to do harm to others for whatever reason may have a bit of survival extinct, to where they take a look around and if not seeing a true threat to your completion of mission, that one may not take action to wit do to seeing someone in the Store or Surrounding area having brandishing a weapon.
They don't even look for a badge of authority to use this weapon to defend and protect. Such as thinking comes to mind such as " This Guy must be an off duty or plane clothes cop and that if I try to complete my mission I may fail my mission."
Most all crazies are not as crazy as you may think. They may have skills of waiting, waiting and waiting for the right moment or op to come round.

We have released trained killers in urban and anti-terror (anti-resistance actually)
Kinda could be compaed to the French resistance of WW2

We have released phyco (drugged Killers) in the Video World before War and in War and after War. Violence is deeply imbedded in an 18 year old boy who " Johny goes Marching to War" goes off to these endless Wars as a killer of innocent citizens of a land not theirs.
But when the same kinda kid is not professionally trained but trained in a no sense killing, killing becomes nothing also to him, meaning he has no feelings or sense of morals such as a soldier is taught.

Who knows when someone just might not try to kill a innocent and does and your present and you could of done as what Jesus the Christian God teaches in their scripture.. " No greater Love does one have then to lay down his life for another"

The question now is how much Love do you have?

So if carring my gun where I can legally carry gets me killed in the process of killing a Killer, then so be it.

Islam believes that get rewarded for killing an infidel. "That's an easy Out"
This makes it simple to apply. Thus appealing to sheeple and cattle.

Christianity believes that your reward comes from the amount of Love you have and if you are willing to prove it by doing so. Laying down your Life if need be to show Love for another, which in turn recieves the gift of Love.
Which is Eternal Life and that is LOVE> which is what the Christian God demands if your to be in his family.
Carry if you can and explain it like that and maybe some will really think you nuts. Out here they understand a bit better but still get confused.

So am I nuts?

reply to post by Grimpachi


Well, I would agree that the extremes on either side make for poor PR and little productive discourse. You seem reasonable, I hope you don't give up trying...

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Yeah but how often do you see someone needing more than 1 bat?

No fair, bat has unlimited swings...I think that it should be against the law to swing a bat at someone more than ten times...

reply to post by kosmicjack

so, your suggestion is what then, to give up and concede to the corruption?
thanks but no thanks ... i'd like to leave something worthwhile for the grandchildren.

one of the smartest people on ATS said once...to paraphrase, because I don't have permission to quote the conversation...the 2nd Amendment was meant to allow citizens to protect themselves from the tyranny of the Government. All of the guns in the world won't do that now...all that's left is the "right" to kill each other.

Guess we have different idea of 'smart'.

If he would have led North Vietnam, America might have experienced a different outcome there. Same if he was in Afghanistan during the soviet attempt to control it.

Not everyone has thrown in the towel.

reply to post by Honor93


Huh?

Both statements reflect the fact that neither myself nor - IMHO - the majority of people think your basic right to gun ownership should be impeded. That is to say, sure, own a reasonable gun for self-defense or sport.

Not unlimited, unchecked gun porn - but basic gun ownership rights.

reply to post by kosmicjack

You must concede though that the "1 thing" to which you are referring is a highly efficient and deadly killer, above all other things the average human may use. Therein lies the difference.

I will concede the right weapon in the hands of the right person can be effective

was deeply struck by something that one of the smartest people on ATS said once...to paraphrase, because I don't have permission to quote the conversation...the 2nd Amendment was meant to allow citizens to protect themselves from the tyranny of the Government. All of the guns in the world won't do that now...all that's left is the "right" to kill each other. So it's all for nothing...what's the real point of it?

A gun in the right place at the right time could have stopped Hitler people with defeatest attitudes are easily defeated.

It's just a tool to divide and subjugate further.

That is the truth.

If the government wants to act against us - it will. We have allowed it to become bigger than us. We have done it to ourselves.

Yet they voted for more of the same honestly I saw darwinism at work.

Originally posted by kosmicjack

The intended purpose of a hammer is as a tool, not to harm another human being. It can, but that's not the purpose. I could kill someone with a Big Mac too if I tried hard enough, so the argument is silly and specious.

Isn't a gun a tool also? People use it to hunt, to deter violence, Use it in many sports, and yes like the hammer to kill... I didn't buy a single gun to kill people...I bet most gun owners are the same as me. Once again hammers kill more people than ARs, so either this killing machine really sucks not being able to hang with the common hammer in killing, or just maybe it's main purpose is something other than to kill people...hmmm

They will not be convinced that no one is trying to deny them their 2nd Amendment rights, just simply looking for common sense measures to manage their rights along side public safety.

So what would be common sense measures and not politically driven measures. Stuff like banning ARs and 10 mag limits are politically driven with zero common sense apart of it. Throw me a bone here and give me a few common sense measures and we might agree...


BTW I could put forth a good argument that Big Macs kill a hell of a lot more people than guns ever will....

reply to post by sonnny1


This economy and this world doesn't make any sense. So I don't know.. Cup O tea! Utah thread.

I don't understand. People and the high quality of life clean, and technology and guns.
I hear arizona is a good place to live. I was at your friend the otter, oh haha, the author. He do the snortin and throw it right on the sidewalk, pistol holdin member of the NRA I'm sure he does know.

reply to post by kosmicjack

exactly, huh ?

first you claim i took extreme liberty with your commentary and said something other than you intended.

now, you claim they say the same thing ??
which is it ?

saying the right shouldn't be impeded, then, advocating for the most draconian measures available isn't quite acting in one's own belief is it ?

then you go on to say ... sure, own a reasonable gun ... well, that goes right back to the word 'reasonable' ... by what standard ??

the 2nd isn't about "basic gun ownership rights" and that's the problem.

Each to his own nowadays, nuh uh, and you can see how that is going out of hand and control.

Canned foods you are meaning right? When this collapses that is what he will be stocking up on, and you don't want to be in his way with that strapped on rifle.
ABC sunday starts with.. Loony walking into Payless shoe store, with a rifle and gets shot in the face with pepper spray, by.. old lady, But he was wrong and didn't have any bullets in the gun, so he takes it and uses it as a mallet and bashes the old laides head. He thought he'd never seen payback (dark

Originally posted by kosmicjack
Not unlimited, unchecked gun porn - but basic gun ownership rights.

That is the big question here, what is too much? What pushes the limit as to what should be considered extreme.

I talked about this before in another post. The most obvious problem here is handguns not ARs. You limit mags to 10 and the 100 million guns that can't even hold 10 are still out there killing people. You limit to 10 and I just go get a .45, or 10mm, or .500 all that hold under 10 rounds, so all this does is move everyone up to bigger guns that do a hell of a lot more damage.

People buy ARs because of the commonality they have with both hardware and bullet sizes, and once again that bullet is smaller, less powerful than its counterparts that use other rounds, but hey they got a wooden stock and so they are ok. My .223 14.5 inch AR with a red dot is nothing to a .338 with a high power scope made to pick things off at 1000 yards plus.


As it has been posted before..gun violence is down 40% from two decades ago, so I fail to see the unchecked gun porn you suggest. There are still problems that need fixing, but most of those problems have laws and systems in place that either are not followed or the system is not working. Enforce the laws already on the books and fix the systems already in place and we would gain a good deal of what you are looking for.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I guess you have never been to a DFAC in A-Stan. Or dealt with the Army in the field......

What he did was not bad by comparison.

Out of the five random movies we own Payback is the second best one in our "collection"

so he takes it and uses it as a mallet and bashes the old laides head. He thought he'd never seen payback

edit on 19-1-2013 by MarkScheppy because: add

Out of the five random movies we own Payback is the second best one in our "collection"