Sincere question about Evolution.

While i am not 100% sure what to believe, i do have one question that has never been answered to my satisfaction. We all know animals have instincts that humans do not possess. Like if a Tsunami is coming animals will head to high ground. Humans will just stand there dumbfounded as to the cause until the wave is in sight. Animals sense earthquakes, etc, before they happen. Humans still have their base instincts but do not have, nor it appears ever did have the instincts inherent in animals. If we evolved from animals, why do we not possess those same abilities? I am not talking about enhanced sense of smell. etc. Is this instinct that animals possess essentially the enlightenment man seeks? It is an extremely valuable instinct that animals possess. I can see no scenario that would cause man to lose such a valuable instinct, if man ever possessed it to start with. This is a sticking point in the theory of evolution in my mind. Anybody have an answer that makes sense?

This is not an attack on the Theory of Evolution. It is a sincere question that i would like to get a sincere answer to.

we give up some abilities to enhance others, it is a trade off that all animals and humans do.

we also double guess ourselves and fail to listen to our gut instinct.

reply to post by munkey66


Sorry, it is too valuable an instinct to ever give up. Given that our brain is capable of more than any animals brain, i just don't see how that could be. I do appreciate the reply though and will ponder your answer. You could be correct. I remain a sceptic however.

Good question
This is my take:
1) We ARE animals
2) Each species has different abilities. A handful of species can sense environmental variations that may indicate an earthquake, tsunami, etc. Many many species can't, Humans are one of those.
3)Human's "class skill" is Brainy Adaptability. Our science and technology ARE natural, and a logical progression of our inner working. That is how the human animal prognosticate and deal with natural disasters.

Cheers.

First of all, as far as I know, Animals detecting disasters before man is not a scientific fact per se.

However, documented cases of such events happening are suspected to simply happen because of certain species' superior senses (touch, hearing and smell, in this case).
Of course, some cases could of course be by chance, or a misinterpreted story in hind-sight by a witnessing man (especially if he/she is aware of this 'fact') that the animals did indeed seem to be nervous before it (whatever it was) happened.

It's an interesting thought,, and true that humans don't have instincts. We have 'drives', instead.

Somewhere along the way instincts were discarded in favor of logic and reasoning ability, which actually serve us much better than instinct.

For example, if a hurricane is coming, perhaps an animal will sense it hours before. Humans know days before, sometimes even weeks before due to our superior intelligence, and all the inventions forthcoming from said intelligence, that have given us the ability to make such determinations.

Intelligence over instinct any day!!!

But as far as your actual query, I think it was just bred out because it was not needed, like the hair all over the body was no longer needed. : )

Originally posted by jimmiec
Sorry, it is too valuable an instinct to ever give up.

First of all, we can't choose on what to keep and what not to keep, unless we keep ourselves in a breeding program.

Second, no, it is not too valuable of an "instinct" (even though it's likely about senses) to give up.
You are proof of that being the case. Look at where you are, and where the rest of the animals aren't.

Given that our brain is capable of more than any animals brain, i just don't see how that could be.

The brain is not doing the work here, but the number of "receptors" in our bodies.

Less receptors, less redundant information to process in our brains, more brainpower for useful things.

supposedly we had those abilities and many more until some 'gods' came to earth and altered our DNA.
wespenre.com...

there is a whole lot of material [controversial] to study here if you want an alternative to the evolution/ creation theories. [hint; it involves space aliens]

evolution is all about trade offs, a peacock gave up flight for a heavy tail that serves no other purpose than to attract a mate, you would think flight would be more important.
Humans risk choking for the ability to speak, its all about the position of our voicebox.

While i am not 100% sure what to believe, i do have one question that has never been answered to my satisfaction.

Lets see if you want to accept the answers given

We all know animals have instincts that humans do not possess.

We are all different.

Like if a Tsunami is coming animals will head to high ground.

No they don’t. They die if caught out by the wave just like we do

Humans will just stand there dumbfounded as to the cause until the wave is in sight.

They do if they ignore the signs or if they have no high ground to run to. No aniaml knows the cause of the wave. Humans not only understand the causes but can build models to prove it.

Animals sense earthquakes, etc, before they happen.

Some people claim to have the same 'sense'

Humans still have their base instincts but do not have, nor it appears ever did have the instincts inherent in animals.

What like the feeling you are being watched or thinking about someone just before they call you. A chick instinctively calls for food, a human baby instinctively suckles.

If we evolved from animals, why do we not possess those same abilities?

We do.

I am not talking about enhanced sense of smell. etc. Is this instinct that animals possess essentially the enlightenment man seeks?

Until you can show these instincts in animals exist and do not exist in humans then your question is mute

It is an extremely valuable instinct that animals possess.

It would be if it prevented them being hunted or stopped them walking out in front of cars. Why does instinct not prevent hedge hogs being flattened on the road? His instinct is to roll into a spiky ball when threatened.

I can see no scenario that would cause man to lose such a valuable instinct, if man ever possessed it to start with.

I just gave you an example. Our intelligence means we devise different tactics to deal with different environments. We do not roll up into a tight ball like the hedgehog for every threat.

This is a sticking point in the theory of evolution in my mind. Anybody have an answer that makes sense?

The questions you ask are not sticking points involving evolution.

This is not an attack on the Theory of Evolution. It is a sincere question that i would like to get a sincere answer to.

Sincere answers given

Thanks for the replies. I will not try to debunk them. I will ponder them. I would like to hear more theories though.

Evolution is driven by natural selection.

Natural selection is the process by which an individual with an advantageous adaptation has a greater survival rate than an individual without said adaptation. The individual then goes on to reproduce, passing on his adaptation to the next generation.

When natural selection happens over many generations and changes the allele frequency* in a population, it is called evolution.

*an allele is an expression of a gene, so blue eyes are an allele, brown eyes are an allele etc

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I have to clarify your misunderstanding of evolution before I continue - it always comes across as minor, pedantic, nitpicky etc but I assure you it's the most important concept you need to grasp in order to understand the theory of evolution:
Humans did not evolve from monkeys (or animals), rather, both humans and monkeys are descendants of a common ancestor which evolved in different ways to produce different species.

It's easiest to think of evolution like a freeway, you can come off the freeway at any point.



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Now as for why we don't have natural disaster awareness any more, it's a tricky one. As far as I know, there are no studies on the issue so this is purely speculation.

If there are only a few closely related species which can detect natural disasters (I don't know) then I would suggest that at some point their common ancestor developed the ability, and it remained prevalent in the population due to the obvious survival benefits it brings - however, since that common ancestor had already branched off from the main trunk, it wasn't related to us and we never developed the ability.

Alternatively, if it's a widespread thing in all species except us, I'd argue that it has a reduced advantage in humans due to the development of our 3rd brains - we began building weapons and shelter, which were a much greater selection advantage than natural disaster awareness. As time has passed, the allele for natural disaster awareness has become irrelevant and been diluted in the population.

I would like to hear more opinions, if any, on infrasound and humans lack of sensing it as well as why animals have it and retain it.

What Dispo said.


Plus here's a simplified example of natural selection.

Why do giraffes have long necks?" Pre-giraffes(shorter necked) would eat leaves from bushes and the bushes eventually got taller(also based on natural selection). The tallest pre-giraffes were able to eat more giving them a greater chance of surviving. The survivors lived to mate more and the chances of their taller genes passing on were greater.

We have adapted in other ways and like said before there are many trade offs. Giraffes are large which deters predators (not entirely) but their calves are easier to kill due to their awkward neck size.

Birds may fly before a storm hits....they are made up differently.

Do monkeys know when a earthquake is coming? I have never heard of apes running away well before a tsunami or some nat disaster happens...different species, different senses.

But we do have latant atrophied skills...just not needed in modern society much...barometric pressure can be sensed if your attuned in enough. Living in florida, I can sense when its about to rain well before clouds come rolling in just from a change in atmosphere. Been in enough rainstorms to know the beginning effects, pressure systems, etc..not scientifically, just knowing based on many years of being exposed to the same patterns...I don't run though because I know how to deal with it..

reply to post by jimmiec


These instincts that you seem to give the label "magic" that allow animals to sense earthquakes is a result of super hearing that most predators and prey have developed, and constantly being close to the ground.

As humans, we are not constantly under the threat of being hunted and eaten... so our senses decline with absence of use. Our cognitive abilites are what allows us to survive and as such they have evolved beyond all other species.

There are many ways that humans can detect natural disasters before they happen. Alot of this is dependant on technology. Which is the avenue of advancement we took.

there's plenty of sources out there but i'll give you this video. it explains the evolution of hearing.

reply to post by jimmiec


OP you forget the fact that EACH animals that are alive today, came thru evolution just as man did, they have the same status, they are still high on the tree, just a different branch.

So we didn't lose out those abilities, we never had them to begin with. Our branch focused on increasing our mental capacity.

Well i can see that once we started using tools we might have had less need for some senses. We still hunted and those would be very valuable senses to have. I understand evolution in the big picture. I am at a bit of an impasse when it comes to the loss of infrasound in particular as it relates to hunter/gatherer/survival in the every day life of man for tens of thousands of years. I can see a farming community losing such a thing, hunters/gatherers should not lose it. I will admit i thought pretty much all animals had infrasound abilities. Maybe that is a wrong assumption.

reply to post by jimmiec


We don't lose things because we don't use them, the advantage it provided was less relevant as time went by so the alleles which were responsible for the instinct were diluted in the population - but they still exist if they ever did in the first place.

That might explain people who can sense natural disasters and premonitions etc.