What freemasonry is to me...

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And as your message is still in your outbox, I guess I couldn't have received it, now could I?
Fitz

When we send U2U's, a COPY of the sent message goes in the outbox ... so, yes, it was sent.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
And as your message is still in your outbox, I guess I couldn't have received it, now could I?
Fitz

When we send U2U's, a COPY of the sent message goes in the outbox ... so, yes, it was sent.

Wherever it might have been sent, it wasn't sent to my inbox. You might want to retry that

Fitz

Nonononono no
no private messagrs. I read you both.
Here and now.

A joke: there two atoms walking down the street,
then some electron incoming,
and one atom to another says, Look, how thisone is annoying.

continue now guys.
Regards

just for you chronos joking of course
actually, Fitz asked for it to be posted.
note mis-spelling "toens" sb "towns"

MY U2U to Fitz - posted on Fitz's request.

Cool! Thanks! The Texas one is bothering us most. (five separate areas in Texas asked ... but, only one KEEPS asking). Arkansas and Alaska too.

In Texas,
All small toens near these major cities - Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Corpus Christi. But, the worst one is Grimes County Texas that keeps asking.

reply to post by Trexter Ziam


I have no idea what u talking about.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I am more of a student of Freemasonry than any Mason I know locally. As for ATS, I can say the same.

Wow, if that ain't some arrogance for ya....While I wouldn't go that far, I would say I know a decent bit about Masonry, owning quite a few books from actual Masons, and researching it on my own; I would know a good lot more than most 'Anti-Masons'...

I find it ridiculous though for any person outside of Masonry, or mystery schools in general, to say they know more about it than the people who are actually Masons...Let me use an analogy here for ya, since we all love them so much....

If I've never been a Christian or gone to church, and I just make up whatever I want about it; could I say I know more about the Bible and Christianity, than the people who go to church and read the Bible??

Absolutely not; so your claim doesn't fly here either...

Originally posted by thelongjourney

(2) Yes, thats right, historically its true masonry had a racist past. Historically. There are a handful of lodges in the US south still like that, and I am ashamed of those lodges. World wide, 98% of lodges are not like that. Also, masonry has been around since the 1400s. Yes, we have a shameful racist past. Please show me one group with this history that was not racist?

I've mentioned this before, but ironically...

When South Africa was still under the apartheid government, clubs and societies were forbidden to allow both black and white members. Freemasonry somehow managed to get exempted from this rule, and was the only society in South Africa which was legally allowed, and had, membership of both black and white men during the apartheid era.

As far as I know, South Africa is the only country that has, in all of it's racist history, never excluded black men from Freemasonry.

Originally posted by thelongjourney

The requirements to be a mason are necessary, but not sufficient in my mind, to pass a unanimous vote of the lodge.

In my constitution, the list of necessary requirements is much longer:

In order to become a Mason, a candidate must:
- Be male
- Have a belief in a Supreme Being (The test is a 'yes' or 'no' answer to the question "Do you believe in a Supreme being?")
- Be over 21 years of age (Actual age may vary in some constitutions)
- Be naturally charitable
- Not be wanting to join for personal gain financially or career-wise.
- Join of one's own free will and accord, unbiased by the solicitation of friends or masons against one's own inclination (which means that nobody can ever be invited - you have to ask to join)
- Have a favorable opinion of the institution
- Have a general desire for knowledge
- Have no criminal record or current criminal charges against him
- Be proposed and seconded by two Brothers. (Even if you don't know any now, you will have to meet two by going to the Lodge and having a chat with the Brethren, so that they can get to know you. This is how one normally joins if you don't know any Masons personally.)

If any one of the above are missing, the person cannot become a Mason. Even so, these are only the necessary conditions, and even these may not be sufficient.

reply to post by VeritasAequitas

If I've never been a Christian or gone to church, and I just make up whatever I want about it; could I say I know more about the Bible and Christianity, than the people who go to church and read the Bible??

Absolutely not; so your claim doesn't fly here either...

The reason I made the statement is because pride causes blindness. Holding a theology like fundamental Christianity means putting God in a box. Freemasonry puts God into a temple built by men. I hold no theology that is set and I am open to any book that holds part of the light of God. Like I said before, light can only reveal what it hits. We are all sinners. I say that I know more than the average Mason because my mind is not locked into one mode of thinking. This is what truth can do for a person. Lower axioms can be resolved to smaller axioms above. Eventually, a person can get rid of all the lower forms of knowledge and exchange them for those above.

An example I have used before is of a train engineer and a friend who argue whether or not the train whistle changes pitch. The train engineer knows the Doppler Effect, yet the friend refuses to listen to reason. His frame of reference and locked mindset keep him from seeing the larger picture.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

I say that I know more than the average Mason because my mind is not locked into one mode of thinking.

Masonry isn't a religion, and they accept anybody from any walk of beliefs: Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Christians, and so forth; all they ask is you believe in a Supreme Being....That doesn't sound so dogmatic to me...

Meanwhile Christianity, fundamental or not, is like screw everyone who doesn't believe as we do, because you are all wrong and going to hell....So lets all be arrogant with our holier than thou attitude, and cram our arrogance down your throats...

That is the problem I have with Christianity....That is why I am a Theosophist....I don't restrict myself to one mode of thinking as you put it; there is no religion higher than truth, and truth exists in many forms my brother.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I say that I know more than the average Mason because my mind is not locked into one mode of thinking.

Masonry isn't a religion, and they accept anybody from any walk of beliefs: Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Christians, and so forth; all they ask is you believe in a Supreme Being....That doesn't sound so dogmatic to me...

Meanwhile Christianity, fundamental or not, is like screw everyone who doesn't believe as we do, because you are all wrong and going to hell....So lets all be arrogant with our holier than thou attitude, and cram our arrogance down your throats...

That is the problem I have with Christianity....That is why I am a Theosophist....I don't restrict myself to one mode of thinking as you put it; there is no religion higher than truth, and truth exists in many forms my brother.

edit on 19-1-2013 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

One of the higher axioms that we could use to render the conversation moot is this: No image in the material world can represent God accurately. This is why Paul said this:

1 Corinthians 10

14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

The only truth to retain life is the Word. It's not lost.

Originally posted by Saurus

As far as I know, South Africa is the only country that has, in all of it's racist history, never excluded black men from Freemasonry.

Interesting unstated challenge. I'll have to dig and see whether we in Soviet Canuckistan can challenge your assertion. OTTOMH, I would think possibly not though it's a grey enough area as to be able to go either way. I seem to recall that some of the inhabitants of the Buxton Settlement were Masons and I'd have to dig for that time frame.

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Here's the full story about Freemasonry under apartheid, including scans of District Grand Lodge communications and news clippings (although it doesn't claim that South Africa was the only country).

Enjoy!

A snippet:

It is a little known fact that during Apartheid in South Africa there was only one organization permitted to fraternize or socialize with Colored people. This organization is Freemasonry. The author talked with R.W. Bro. Morris Levin, Past Deputy Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of South Africa and a 33° Freemason who was in charge of the lengthy and sometimes candid negotiations which led to this unique breakthrough.

Link: www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

Masonry is quite a mystery it really depends on what lodge you belong to they all seem to have ups and downs but overall are out to do good

The problem with masonry in alot of lodges is the religious right has appeared to taken over in florida those involved in occult activities are not allowed to join certain lodges Im considering joining a prince hall lodge but have lost faith in others thus far

reply to post by TheblackMagickian777


Occult means hidden. It's not something evil.

reply to post by thelongjourney

I like reading up on the history of it a lot but i never know when im stepping on toes asking a question or not,i think the idea of brotherhood is something that was born in me and after reading i think only ten pages of a book i was sold on it.I so nearly walked into a Gorey Co Wexford lodge the other day but since asking a question that peed one or two of you off on another forum.I held off.
very cool ideals for being there for your brothers till the end.

reply to post by TheblackMagickian777

What happened in Florida is not indicative of what happens with the rest of the Grand Lodges and I doubt each Lodge in Florida agrees with the edict.

reply to post by network dude


To be more precise, occult science is the study of how forces and mechanisms in the unseen influence and dictate the performance and reality of the seen.

How the microcosm affects the macrocosm...

As below, so above....

What causes water to be wet? What is liquid? What is temperature? These are the kinds of questions that occult studies attempt to address...For instance, why does the color red appeal to your reptilian brain? Why does the color yellow make you hungry?

Others would simply like to go with the facade of, "We measured this glass of water, it's cold. We know everything about water now "

reply to post by Saurus


Currently learning 2nd degree tools for traditional history, full version that is :-) its a bit of a tongue twister in places though. I think in the NW of England we enjoy keeping the esoteric.

If your ever in my neck of the woods on a first Tuesday give me a holler.