US gun debate: Obama unveils gun control proposals

Originally posted by xedocodex
For some reason, I don't think you hold them to the same standard.

First of all...the NRA is not the government and therefore cannot make/enforce law so there is no parallel.

Please show me an ad campaign or press opportunity that shows the leader of the NRA (to which I do not belong because they as a lobby group are what is worst in America) using a backdrop of children stating that we should not have more staunch gun control or legislation for the sake of our children.

There is a most recent ad that claims Obama is a hypocrite for having his kids go to a school with armed guards but doesn't want our regular schools to be armed compounds. Like the one's his own and the rest of our "leaders" children attend because our kids are not as important as theirs.

I see that as sensational and overly emotional but an accurate reflection of the facts.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


No, they DON'T need to make a law banning military style weapons.
Military style weapons ARE NOT just available to the public. The guns available to the public are not actual "assault" weapons. And these "assault" weapons owned by the public are rarely ever used in crimes.

Banning the "mean" looking guns is just guaging reaction and setting precedence to ban all guns later.
Especially if they make it where it's illegal to pass them down generations. A few decades down the road all of the "assault" weapons will have been confiscated and others banned.

Pretty much we the people need to be out in the street protesting.

reply to post by beezzer


Well we don't know the specifics and that is not okay. We need to know. How can we reject or approve of anything if we don't what exactly we are talking about.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

I don't really see that way, I see that he tweaked existing laws for the most part, and closing background check loopholes is something I fully support. What I'm concerned about is how they are going to define and scale mental health issues.

The only way to close the so-called "gun show loopholes" is through national gun registration. I don’t think anyone should participate in any sort of gun registration program until the US government discloses its spending on black projects. I mean, if they get to know what I have then I want to know what THEY have. The big difference being that I PAID FOR BOTH!!

Show and tell time, boys!! You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

Until then....forget it!

I just heard on the radio that the New York gun bill was written and passedso hastily that they forgot to exempt cops and active duty military personnel. So cops will have to carry pistols limited to a 7 round magazine capacity.

I hope that the US Congress thinks about their bill a bit more than New York did.

reply to post by seabag


I didn't hear anything said about registering guns, is that really the only way? Aren't they essentially registered anyway? I'm not a gun owner so I really have no idea if I'm correct or not but doesn't each gun have a serial number and a provenance that is supposed to always be in possession of the owner? I'm totally with you on the black budget. lol

Originally posted by Tw0Sides

Originally posted by seabag

Gloating about the demise of your rights!

I would expect nothing less from the Obama crowd!

Still Smarting about that "Landslide" thing you Guarantee not Panning Out I see.

But more on Topic, The "right to live' is what this is all about.

Why dont you send your 'cute" pictures to the Families of the 26, with a note explaining why your guns are more important than their Lives.

Have a Nice Day bud.

How are his (or her) guns even linked to the "Families of the 26"? He didn't shoot them, I didn't shoot them, nobody here was the person to pull the trigger on those people. I don't see any logic in your question.

reply to post by Kali74


There are states and municipalities that register guns, but any guns that are not under the NFA rules are not registered by the feds. The paperwork is held by the FFL holder when a sale is made by them. If the feds seize that paperwork, then they can trace the guns.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by seabag

 

I didn't hear anything said about registering guns, is that really the only way? Aren't they essentially registered anyway? I'm not a gun owner so I really have no idea if I'm correct or not but doesn't each gun have a serial number and a provenance that is supposed to always be in possession of the owner? I'm totally with you on the black budget. lol

No, there is no federal gun registration. The only way to track private party sale is through registration. This way you have to fill out forms when you sell to a private party.

Gun registration is populating a list for future confiscation.

reply to post by Indigo5


That's how it reads to me as well but I would rather see some clear restrictions and guidelines on the cop side before I can say how I feel about it.

reply to post by seabag


I get your hesitation about lists, mostly they are bad but we are talking about property not people. Cars are registered, that's gone okay so far. Can you elaborate?

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by seabag

 

I get your hesitation about lists, mostly they are bad but we are talking about property not people. Cars are registered, that's gone okay so far. Can you elaborate?

There is no federal car registry, cars aren't used for self defense against a tyrannical government, and there's no expectation that there will be a national car confiscation soon.

And it IS about people. They will have a list of every gun you own. The serial numbers will be tied to your name. I don't want them (or anyone) to know what I have. I've already heard of media types wanting to publish the lists!! That's a violation of my privacy.

reply to post by butcherguy


that is the most funny thing ive heard come out of all of this crazyness so for now cops can only have 7 round mags?

The bill moved so fast, some mistakes were made and will have to be corrected in separate legislation in the weeks ahead, lawmakers acknowledge. One problem: Police agencies were not exempted from the restrictions on bullets. Read more: www.nydailynews.com...

from this anti gun source www.nydailynews.com... thats priceless hopefully this will stop them from trying to rush through any more laws with out letting people read them any more


and wait didnt they just ban a bunch of assault weapons in ny? so if the cops weren't exempted from the mag count does that mean the cops cant legally use their "assault weapons" until they update the law?

reply to post by seabag


That media business is ridiculous, they shouldn't have done that.
Why is a national registry the only way though?

reply to post by Kali74
If you go buy a gun at a retail establishment or from a private dealer who sticks to the letter of the law you have to fill out paperwork and they run a background check on you before they give you possession of the gun. The gun is thereby recorded as being your property. A lot of people buy guns from private sellers with no background checks and no paperwork, therefore the gun is not registered to you unless you go out of your way to get and fill out the proper paperwork and submit it yourself- which most people do not do.

If such a law is passed requiring private sellers to do background checks and submit proper paperwork there is really no way to enforce such a law- unless some idiot "tattles" about it.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by seabag

 

That media business is ridiculous, they shouldn't have done that.
Why is a national registry the only way though?

How else can you track the sales if you don't know who has what?

The "gun show loophole" phrase is a buzzword to get people on board; it sounds innocent enough. As I stated, the real reason (IMO) is so they can populate a list of guns (and gun owners) so they know where to go when the confiscation comes.

I firmly beleive that within 2 years Obama will say, "The new legislation hasn't worked as good as we thought it would. Now we need to confiscate all the 'assault weapons'. We know who has them and you have 90 days to surrender them or a warrant will be issued."

NO LIST = NO WAY to enforce CONFISCATION

Double

Post

reply to post by Kali74


That's a pretty big difference a car doesn't say much about someone and you probably aren't considered a threat based on it.

Oh, unless you put a giant spoiler on a cavalier then you should definitely be under surveillance.

There needs to be a National Gun Registry to be able to track guns used in crimes and illegal sales.

When you buy a gun, you get registered to that gun. If you lose it, you report it stolen, if you don't and it is used in a crime, you are held responsible.

Originally posted by xedocodex
There needs to be a National Gun Registry to be able to track guns used in crimes and illegal sales.

When you buy a gun, you get registered to that gun. If you lose it, you report it stolen, if you don't and it is used in a crime, you are held responsible.

You can report guns stolen now...without registration.

You can also get a signed bill of sale when you do a private party sale to cover your butt.

Are you a gun owner? Do you want your name on a list at the ATF, DHS or anywhere else? Do you want to be a target for anti-gun nutters for simply exercising your 2nd amendment rights? I sure as hell don't!