UK.. We Messed Up Letting The Government Take Our Guns..

Originally posted by ultimatelizardman
Firstly, how do you explain the high frequency of mass killings in China and Belgium, two countries (with vastly different populations) where obtaining a firearm is just as hard as in the UK?

Secondly, what gives you the right to tell others that they don't need a weapon for self-defense? Only the individual can decide on whether he needs to own a firearm for the purpose of self-defense, not "the majority" and certainly not the government.

firstly, i dont. this is about the uk and my many comments in this thread have been focussed on that. these countries are an entirely different kettle of fish and i wont comment on something i know so little about, it's an involved issue after all.

secondly, i am not telling people what they can and cant do, i have been expressing my feeling that i am happy with how things are here in relation to our gun laws and debating that issue. i think i have been clear on that, if not, hopefully this post emphasises that.

reply to post by EvanB


I totally agree and think its time to bring back responsible gun ownership in Britain. But of course that won't ever happen whilst we have a government controlled nanny state...

And for those who think Britain is 'safer' with citizens not being allowed to own a firearm, your in denial:

Originally posted by skalla
firstly, i dont. this is about the uk and my many comments in this thread have been focussed on that. these countries are an entirely different kettle of fish and i wont comment on something i know so little about, it's an involved issue after all.

secondly, i am not telling people what they can and cant do, i have been expressing my feeling that i am happy with how things are here in relation to our gun laws and debating that issue. i think i have been clear on that, if not, hopefully this post emphasises that.

In response to your first point: i was using other countries to try and make a point, namely that gun control has no effect whatsoever on the frequency of mass killings while it increases the frequency of most other crimes and significantly increases the severity of all crimes.

In response to your second point: by saying that you're happy with the current gun laws in your country you are implying that you are happy with the fact that other people are not being allowed to decide for themselves whether they need a firearm for their own protection and the protection of their loved-ones, ergo you are passively telling others what they should need.

Originally posted by ultimatelizardman

Originally posted by skalla
firstly, i dont. this is about the uk and my many comments in this thread have been focussed on that. these countries are an entirely different kettle of fish and i wont comment on something i know so little about, it's an involved issue after all.

secondly, i am not telling people what they can and cant do, i have been expressing my feeling that i am happy with how things are here in relation to our gun laws and debating that issue. i think i have been clear on that, if not, hopefully this post emphasises that.

In response to your first point: i was using other countries to try and make a point, namely that gun control has no effect whatsoever on the frequency of mass killings while it increases the frequency of most other crimes and significantly increases the severity of all crimes.

In response to your second point: by saying that you're happy with the current gun laws in your country you are implying that you are happy with the fact that other people are not being allowed to decide for themselves whether they need a firearm for their own protection and the protection of their loved-ones, ergo you are passively telling others what they should need.

edit on 16-1-2013 by ultimatelizardman because: (no reason given)

to suggest that i cannot express my feelings about the law in my own country is ludicrous, get a grip. this is a debate forum that i cannot express my feelings in?

i'm not going around in circles any further on this tonight, if you wish to make any sense in further posts i'll most likely be checking in at some point tomorrow, good night

Originally posted by skalla
to suggest that i cannot express my feelings about the law in my own country is ludicrous, get a grip. this is a debate forum that i cannot express my feelings in?

The problem i have here is that this particular law, like all strict gun-control laws, violates two innate human rights: the right to exert one's free will and the right to self-preservation.

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by mykingdomforthetruth
reply to post by misscurious

 

Youv'e obviously never had your faced kicked in by a mugger, I have been attacked with a baseball bat and again with a machete both cases were robbery and both cases i was lucky not to be killed and both cases i wish i was armed because i would have killed the #er dead.

i guess you dont give a # about it thou do you

In other words, you want to kill someone.

I hear ya.. don't yell man.. sheesh.

This reply right here is the sympathy you can expect when some guy kicks your face in while holding a machete. That seems to be the attitude over in Britain and the more irritated you are by it the more it encourages them. Lying in mass is just funny. Bigger is better. A thug beats you up, lol.

This is just silly.....As long as you are not a criminal or a loony, you can legally own a gun in the UK.

Just join a shooting club, get some training and then apply for a license for the weapon(s) that you wish to use.

Semi-auto rifles over .22 cal and handguns are completely off the cards, but then our biggest carnivores are the fox and the badger and we never had Cowboys (or Indians).....Other than that the world's your Saiga!

Originally posted by squarehead666
This is just silly.....As long as you are not a criminal or a loony, you can legally own a gun in the UK.

Just join a shooting club, get some training and then apply for a license for the weapon(s) that you wish to use.

Semi-auto rifles over .22 cal and handguns are completely off the cards, but then our biggest carnivores are the fox and the badger and we never had Cowboys (or Indians).....Other than that the world's your Saiga!

So, in other words you can't own anything that is appropriate for self defense or would challenge the government's ability to exert force upon the populace. Gotcha.

reply to post by EvanB


May be that the UK cannot own guns legally or what not, but like history says, "Governments that grow too big and with a big head thinking that they own everything, will be given everything if the people will simply comply."

But like all big governments, "The bigger they are, the harder they fall." I believe it'll be something if it fell, but at the same time, those with weak minds will not only crack, but will go berserk.

Those that fight against gun ownership, not only are a sheeple, but they are asleep, along with they are willing to fight for a system that lives off of their well being, A.K.A. the parasite relationship, government/bankers suck the sleeping ones dry and keep them asleep so that they don't feel "pain."

reply to post by angrysniper

You don't know much about guns do you.....Except maybe on Counterstrike?

Read the last word in my post.

People seem to be missing the point of societies 'greater conditioning'.

British people haven't had firearms in a long time, as such we're not used to owning or using them. You can't change the law and suddenly tell people that owning a gun is okay, can you imagine the ramifications of that? The youth in the UK is borderline feral. I say that living in a quaint village, near Liverpool. The youth here are HORRIBLE. Truly horrible. So are the 'teens' and early twenties, sometimes early 30's. They're called 'chavs' and are equivalent to Americas 'rednecks'. Ours are three times as numerous.

Even without the presence of the feral youth we are still left with a problem. That being that everyone would WANT to use their new toy. They'd actively make situations to use their weapons, thinking it'll bring them that feeling of 'freedom' they've been denied for so long. They'd be shooting cans off of walls and seeing how many cd's a bullet goes through.

I hate to say it but the British people are ashamedly addicted to being oppressively ruled. We thrive on moaning and doing nothing about it. Like the rest of the world really. Or maybe it's just us on these kinds of information quests. We come to a realisation, though it takes a while, that after the optimism we know - deep down - that no one's going to act. No one. We know that it'll get worse and worse and we just can't stop it.

Every time the 'people' organise it breaks down through lack of cohesion, we can't orgnise because everyone is too busy being an 'individual' that they can't come to a common goal.

Come on guys it's over. I HATE to say it, but it is OVER. Our optimism is wasted now, we may as well figure what we'll do when the 'power that is' brings the system down. The people are NOT going to wake up and the more we ask them too, the further they'll push us away....

End.

Evan man, you live in the UK, you all have gardens...catch my drift? Illegal guns are easy to come by, get one.

Anyone found entering your home at 03.00 in the morning?

Shoot the #er, then bury him. Case closed.

If there are more than one, just make sure you don't miss any of them. Don't take the matter to the authorities, they are too #ing stupid to know how to deal with it.

Originally posted by angrysniper

Originally posted by squarehead666
This is just silly.....As long as you are not a criminal or a loony, you can legally own a gun in the UK.

Just join a shooting club, get some training and then apply for a license for the weapon(s) that you wish to use.

Semi-auto rifles over .22 cal and handguns are completely off the cards, but then our biggest carnivores are the fox and the badger and we never had Cowboys (or Indians).....Other than that the world's your Saiga!

So, in other words you can't own anything that is appropriate for self defense or would challenge the government's ability to exert force upon the populace. Gotcha.

Indeed, I am not sure how effective it would be to say to someone that has ill intent breaking into your house "Excuse me, sir......can you possibly put your dire intentions on hold for a little while. I need to go down to my gun club to go retrieve my firearm. If you can possibly wait to resume your activities until I get back it would very much be appreciated, Thank you."

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by SpearMint
Except the guns still exist there (for reasons I've mentioned many times) so your point is not valid. You seem to be mistaking late gun laws in a small portion of the country that is already drowned in guns for properly implemented gun control.

And that is the point that I've been making all along. Guns still exist there in the hands of criminals in spite of them being banned. All bans do, be they bans of drugs or guns, is remove them from the people who obey the law.

Which is exactly why I say the US government should allow already owned guns, ban the selling of guns and destroy guns when they can (confiscated guns etc.). When things are on par with the UK (an example) then bring in much stricter gun laws. Things will slowly get better, in time. That's better than just standing there rambling about freedom and the constitution while things get worse under the illusion that citizens owning 270,000,000 guns is a good thing and it's some kind of liberty. That's what's happening right now whether you acknowledge it or not.

edit on 16-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

No it isn't...that is just your flawed opinion. How would things get better? In both the UK and Australia, crime has gotten worse, not better over time. Disarming the law abiding people has not helped your violent crime or murder one whit.

You mean our low crime rate has gotten slightly worse, for all you know it could be a lot worse than it is now if we had guns. It hasn't gotten worse because we don't have guns.

Edit: Never mind, it's actually gotten better.

reply to post by SpearMint


Except you don't have a low crime rate. But why rely on statistics when you can spew nonsense?

So how are you supposed to defend yourself or your family from violent criminals in the U.K. ???

Seriously, I'm just wondering...

Do you call the police? How are you supposed to do that if someone is beating you mercilessly with a club, brick, bat, frying pan, waffle maker, etc.???

The average response time for police in America is about 8-12 minutes that's plenty of time to be beaten and robbed and for the offender to make his/her escape.


apbweb.com...

www.nypost.com...

reply to post by Nicks87


You are not supposed to, according to the proponents of the'evil inanimate objects' theology. I mean seriously, why would you want to defend yourself?

reply to post by Nicks87



Hope they don't hit you hard enough to wake up the neighbours?

It's seen as a 'shame' to be beaten down in Britain. You're apparently meant to be able to 'take it' and then, here's the good part, NOT 'grass' on the thug.

Usually they'll remember your face and unlike the US they'll get you if you do report them. I've seen that happen countless times.

I say unlke the states purely because in Britain, even in Cities it's much, MUCH smaller than the US is. So you tend to see the same people a lot.

Originally posted by ototheb85
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

No its not up to us its up to the government! so abide by the law like a upstanding Citizen!! owning guns it wrong! plain and simple.. you need to grow up! how about this I want to own a coc aine farm is that OK with illegal immigrants working for me??

is that an OK thing to decide for myself?

edit on 16-1-2013 by ototheb85 because: (no reason given)

What the hell sort of an analogy is this?...

Owning firearms does not equal to owning a coc aine farm, or exploiting people...

First you need to learn to make a concise, and intelligent argument if you want to be taken seriously. So far all you have shown is not only complete ignorance, but how extremely naive people like you are.

If the government tells you there is a law that wants to compel you to jump from a 2,000 foot cliff you will do it because "it is up to the government"?...

There have been plenty of governments which have FORCED people to do their will, just like you want, from Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, castro, etc, etc... They all have one thing in common, appart from being leftwing, they all have FORCED people to do the will of the government...

So we know with what sort of people, and governments YOU would side with...

The sort of mentality of people like you is the reason why so many dictatorships have appeared all over the world...

Originally posted by D377MC
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Except you don't have a low crime rate. But why rely on statistics when you can spew nonsense?

All along I've been talking about firearm homicides, which is low.

Anyway, violent crime is lower now in the UK than it was before they took the guns away and it's still decreasing a lot.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


See above, the UK had a high rate when guns were allowed, bringing up violent crime statistics doesn't help your argument at all.