Troop pay, VA Disability, and Social Security pay, threatened by debt-ceiling standoff

As a veteran who depends on disability payments as my main source of income this is angering to me. Why must they begin cuts with those who need it most. How about they start by withholding or cutting the salaries of the politicians who are responsible for this mess. Which is all of them in my opinion. Things are getting quite grim in this country and I would hate to see what would happen if this were to come to fruition. I'm sure they'll just raise it and continue the downward spiral which is out of control.

I also wonder this as well. Could they try to sneak gun legislation into the fiscal cliff nonsense in order to get it passed under the radar so to speak. I am no expert in politics so I will leave that one to more knowledgeable people.

www.marinecorpstimes.com...

Federal employees and military service members will not get paid if Congress does not raise the debt ceiling, President Obama said Monday.

The government also would not be able to honor its contracts with small-business owners, and Social Security checks and benefits for veterans would be delayed, Obama said during a news conference.

Obama reiterated his stance that he will not negotiate with Republicans — who are demanding spending cuts in exchange for raising the debt ceiling.

“We are not a deadbeat nation,” Obama said. “Republicans in Congress have two choices here. They can act responsibly and pay America’s bills, or they can act irresponsibly and put America through another economic crisis. But they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the American economy.”

The federal government reached its debt limit Dec. 31, but Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner said last month he could finagle another two months or so by taking so-called “extraordinary measures” before the debt ceiling would have to be raised. That implied Congress had more time to act and the government could keep running as-is until the end of February. However, the Bipartisan Policy Center think tank estimates the government could run out of money as early as Feb. 15.

hey

I guess its possible, but I really dont think so. You should know above all how many times this has been thrown out there as a scare tactic in the same sentence as "GOP" or "republicans"... The guy cries wolf too much. If it happens id be shocked. A few yrs ago when this was floated by Obama someone on here was whining for Obama's safety cause he was pissing off "trained killers" by being generous enough to give them a heads up so they can arrange finances for a possible suspension of veteran benefits. Anyway, didnt happen then either.. or any other time. Hell, I dont know how much more they can cut.. my husband is ex mil and we live near the base he works at with active.. many of the families make so little even being enlisted they qualify for food stamps. I agree.. there are plenty of places to cut ( maybe his vacations) before they start taking the food out of folks' mouths.

Hang in there.

These debt ceilings keep getting closer and closer together.

It is like taking out another credit card to keep paying the interest for the existing twenty.

It will not last too much longer and then, well, the whole mess will go down the poo poo hole. There won't even be enough water to flush.

I wonder what all the troops on deployment will do when they don't get paid and they have to worry about their loved ones back at home.

What will the politicians do when they don't get paid?

P

I did a search... there are NUMEROUS threads/news articles/videos on this being threatened for many different reasons.. threads all over ATS for 4 years now with different pay cut to vets and mil threats. Just do a search. This is threatened every time he wants something and he throws in partisanship in for good measure.

IE
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Among about 20 others....

they wont make these cuts, they know it would be the beginning of the end, i really see rioting in the streets over this
take a mans or womans food from them or their children, then the S will DEFINITELY HTF

Having paid attention to what all is going on, the following can be stated.

This is nothing new, it seems like more and more the federal government is using this as a scare tactic to try to get their own personal agenda passed. This has happened time and time again, threaten and make threats on the very people, to try to look good or their party look good.

Does anyone remember when the Tea party came into their own and forced an agenda on the congress? It is pretty much politics, and they are not holding back, rather they are going to drag their feet, hem, haw and use scare tactics, then come up with something at the very last moment. Should they decide that they are going down that rout, how long till the people really get up at arms?

reply to post by usmc0311


Look, I understand your personal stake in this but you are looking at it all wrong.

If you think that we as a nation can just continually keep raising the debt limit forever with no consequences you are dead wrong. If you think this is a problem that is going to go away you are dead wrong.

This country is bankrupt, we are living on borrowed time, and the longer we pretend there is no problem the worse the depression that is now inevitable is going to be.

There are going to be massive entitlement cuts, nothing can stop that because what has been promised is IMPOSSIBLE to pay for. This is not a problem of 20 years from now either. It is a problem NOW. If we make it even two more years without entering a depression I will be shocked.

The best thing that can happen is for there to be some serious discussion about the problems we face. Ignoring them does not make them go away, it only allows them to grow larger.

this is a flat out lie.

the federal government brings in more than enough revenue, monthly, to pay the service on the national debt, and has more than enough left over to pay for s.s., the military, the v.a., and plenty more.

if these things are not paid for it is because obama did'nt pay them. it is his responsibility and his alone, to make sure these things are paid for.

s.s. medicare and medicaid are entitlements, not debts.

when will you people stop believing every word that comes from the imperial presidents mouth?

every word he spews is a lie lie lie...

the time for claiming ignorance is over. for there has been 4 years of blatant lying, and if you have not learned that he is a lying sack of *&%^, you are STUPID

reply to post by Advantage


I ran a better search and found some of the old stuff as well. It does seem like this is just one of the scare tactics they are using. I myself am not as worried as I am a resourcefull person and I will always find a way to provide for my family. It would just make things more difficult if it were to happen.

reply to post by proximo


Maybe you misunderstood me because I agree with you. The more I look at it the more it just seems they are delaying the inevitable. They should be looking for real answers but the real answers would evade their agendas I imagine.

Originally posted by usmc0311
reply to post by Advantage

 

I ran a better search and found some of the old stuff as well. It does seem like this is just one of the scare tactics they are using. I myself am not as worried as I am a resourcefull person and I will always find a way to provide for my family. It would just make things more difficult if it were to happen.

Good deal, didnt want you to worry unnecessarily. There is enough to worry about these days without statements made while one is playing politics with the public.

reply to post by bjax9er


I don't think anyone here believes what the President has to say is all truth. All politicians lie which is why I wanted to discuss this issue. And yes you are correct. People that believe every word from a politician are stupid. I would also venture to say those who blindly believe the media fit into that catagory as well.

HI fellow former grunt, I think Obummer is blowing smoke out his arse!

I am sorry I am not closer because I would help if the checks don't come. I don't have much brother but your welcome to share what I have.

If Obama does this and puts out welfare and food stamp money it will go very badly for him and democrats. Frankly, I would prefer to stop the madness now rather than a few years from now when the debt interest payments will be equal to the Pentagon war budget!

The facts remain the debt is impossible to pay off ... the only option is default on our terms and defend property with lives!

Economy, government collapse, stability of dollar and sovereignty of the citizens threatened by increasing debt.
Once the thing collapses NOBODY gets a check.

Originally posted by usmc0311
Why must they begin cuts with those who need it most.

Because it is scary to the plebs. It’s a threat that the Dem's and the Rep's (whoever happens to be in charge at the time blames the other) use every time and they never do it.

It's to get people all emotional and weepy about paying the Soldiers (and Marines ) what they earned.

I do not depend on my retirement per-se, because I invested well and saved and was able to buy a good piece of property and a business after retirement.

My retired 04 pay is pretty much gravy. I can tell you this though; I am utterly dependant on TriCare for my wife's medical issues. No way would anyone cover her (or me) with our issues for any amount that I could reasonably afford.

Anyway, I could have filed a VA claim and was even at one point processed for a medical discharge with a rating of 50% so I know I can at least get that from the VA. However, I haven't filed a claim nor do I intend to because frankly I don't need more money from the coffers. My retirement is plenty.

All that said every man has a breaking point and I have declared here on ATS and elsewhere that should for some reason the US government renege on its promise to provide me and my family healthcare as agreed 24 years of risking my life in their stupid wars (doing so with vigor and enthusiasm) or for reasons of "austerity measures" decide to increase my payments significantly for this service or to cut or stop delivering my retirement pay (in the manner agreed) they will get the very guerilla warfare they trained me to wage.

I am maybe a little long in the tooth to HALO into D.C. and conduct a raid but I can still train organize and pretty much feed and equip a Platoon (+) with my personal assets. A retired SF Major can create some havoc in an area with a Platoon of G’s.

This is all contingent on my daughter having reached the age of majority so I have no dependents hanging on my cooperation.

What will I have to lose...

If it actually comes to not paying the service members - we will know the endgame is afoot and it is time to take to the hills. That is how they will control the Soldiers and Marines by making their families safety and feeding contingent upon some kind of handouts or vouchers in exchange for following the questionable orders that will surely follow.

Originally posted by Golf66

All that said every man has a breaking point and I have declared here on ATS and elsewhere that should for some reason the US government renege on its promise to provide me and my family healthcare as agreed 24 years of risking my life in their stupid wars (doing so with vigor and enthusiasm) or for reasons of "austerity measures" decide to increase my payments significantly for this service or to cut or stop delivering my retirement pay (in the manner agreed) they will get the very guerilla warfare they trained me to wage.



If it actually comes to not paying the service members - we will know the endgame is afoot and it is time to take to the hills. That is how they will control the Soldiers and Marines by making their families safety and feeding contingent upon some kind of handouts or vouchers in exchange for following the questionable orders that will surely follow.

You know Golf.. you're not the only one to mention something like this..

As far as going Halo.. one of the husbands buddies that spent Christmas with us mentioned this with the threats of the govt turning their backs..... and then got into the WHY's combat vets ( of which he and the husband both are) are on watchlists as potential terrorists.. for doing their job as commanded.

hmmmm..

The solution to this is let the government print money without borrowing it. In fact this is what all governments should be doing. Instead we let private banks control and expand the money supply. Cut off their ability to create leverage and this will not be inflationary in a growing nation. A growing nation needs more and more money each year. Otherwise you have more and more people fighting over the same amount of money which automatically decreases the standard of living for everyone. Create that money through debt which has the additional cost of interest and the process of standard of living deterioration increases its pace, which is what we are seeing now.

The problem is controlling the amount of new money printed. Tap it out at 3% a year and it could work without being inflationary.

This is the out of the box solution that we need that no one ever considers.

Originally posted by Advantage
As far as going Halo.. one of the husbands buddies that spent Christmas with us mentioned this with the threats of the govt turning their backs..... and then got into the WHY's combat vets ( of which he and the husband both are) are on watchlists as potential terrorists.. for doing their job as commanded.

hmmmm..

That is why I am not afraid to post my mind here. I know I am on a few dozen watch lists. I am not afraid; I know they haven't the ability or the resources or the desire to come hunt someone like me down. It takes like a 100:1 ratio to pull off a mission like that, intell, surveillance, advance work etc...

There are simply not enough people to do it.

It is also why I know this is all bluster for the plebs. The last group they want to piss off are the people who know how to fight back.

I do know there are those who think the military will not follow orders and confiscate weapons and round people up. I know that a good percentage will do just that for the reasons I stated.

By the time anything like this is to take place the economy will already have collapsed which will make the families of the military largely and effectively defacto hostages to their vouchers, rations and handouts which the general public will not be getting. This will be a huge motivator for the servicemen to comply with constitutionally questionable things. Jews readily rounded up other Jews in the ghettos for the Nazis and turned in their neighbors and such for food or promises of safety for their families.

Who really can blame them... I'd kill my neighbor right now if it meant my kid living and or eating another day and sleep tight knowing it. Wouldn't you?

The only thing that will make the servicemen defect or go AWOL is to protect/feed their own families. It is why the military basically encourages younger enlisted people to get married with monetary incentives - control.

They know that living paycheck to paycheck and having kids to feed makes one more likely to reenlist. They also know that one will be more compliant for fear of losing pay and benefits for the family.

An 18-19 year old kid is a wildcard he might obey and then if he hasn't much to lose he might head home to find and protect his sisters and mom; however, a 20 something with a wife and a kid who knows the military will make sure they are fed and safe as long as he complies with commands is a simple thing to predict.

Sadly the surest way for any insurgent group to entice servicemenbers to do the right thing is to compromise that safety and or surety of sustenance which leads me to believe our military families and government employees (who will be getting some kind of compensation in whatever becomes currency even if it’s an MRE) in general will be prime targets for such attacks.

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
The solution to this is let the government print money without borrowing it. In fact this is what all governments should be doing. Instead we let private banks control and expand the money supply. Cut off their ability to create leverage and this will not be inflationary in a growing nation. A growing nation needs more and more money each year. Otherwise you have more and more people fighting over the same amount of money which automatically decreases the standard of living for everyone. Create that money through debt which has the additional cost of interest and the process of standard of living deterioration increases its pace, which is what we are seeing now.

The problem is controlling the amount of new money printed. Tap it out at 3% a year and it could work without being inflationary.

This is the out of the box solution that we need that no one ever considers.

ahh yes many governments have tried this "solution" and those governments don't exist anymore.
the reason we borrow it, is so that it has some value.
not saying that are fed system is good or perfect. this is why we will forever be in debt.
but you cant just print money with nothing behind it.
unless you want to pay for a loaf of bread with a wheelbarrow full of benjamins.

Originally posted by Golf66

Originally posted by Advantage
As far as going Halo.. one of the husbands buddies that spent Christmas with us mentioned this with the threats of the govt turning their backs..... and then got into the WHY's combat vets ( of which he and the husband both are) are on watchlists as potential terrorists.. for doing their job as commanded.

hmmmm..

That is why I am not afraid to post my mind here. I know I am on a few dozen watch lists. I am not afraid; I know they haven't the ability or the resources or the desire to come hunt someone like me down. It takes like a 100:1 ratio to pull off a mission like that, intell, surveillance, advance work etc...

There are simply not enough people to do it.

It is also why I know this is all bluster for the plebs. The last group they want to piss off are the people who know how to fight back.

I do know there are those who think the military will not follow orders and confiscate weapons and round people up. I know that a good percentage will do just that for the reasons I stated.

By the time anything like this is to take place the economy will already have collapsed which will make the families of the military largely and effectively defacto hostages to their vouchers, rations and handouts which the general public will not be getting. This will be a huge motivator for the servicemen to comply with constitutionally questionable things. Jews readily rounded up other Jews in the ghettos for the Nazis and turned in their neighbors and such for food or promises of safety for their families.

Who really can blame them... I'd kill my neighbor right now if it meant my kid living and or eating another day and sleep tight knowing it. Wouldn't you?

The only thing that will make the servicemen defect or go AWOL is to protect/feed their own families. It is why the military basically encourages younger enlisted people to get married with monetary incentives - control.

They know that living paycheck to paycheck and having kids to feed makes one more likely to reenlist. They also know that one will be more compliant for fear of losing pay and benefits for the family.

An 18-19 year old kid is a wildcard he might obey and then if he hasn't much to lose he might head home to find and protect his sisters and mom; however, a 20 something with a wife and a kid who knows the military will make sure they are fed and safe as long as he complies with commands is a simple thing to predict.

Sadly the surest way for any insurgent group to entice servicemenbers to do the right thing is to compromise that safety and or surety of sustenance which leads me to believe our military families and government employees (who will be getting some kind of compensation in whatever becomes currency even if it’s an MRE) in general will be prime targets for such attacks.

Quoted for truth.
Absolutely. Ive said damned near the same on here.. among other things. No one believes though.. and refuse to listen to those who are older, been there, know the folks, and know the score. They want to maintain the hysterics.