a former Evangelical "born again" explains why Protestantism isn't true

reply to post by truejew



newjew Polycarp lived before Tertullian, Polycarp was a student of John the Beloved Apostle. Polycarp was/is a priest, he confected the most Holy Eucharist. Explain how the first Christians were wrong, this means by you, the Apostles got it wrong.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville

You do not belong to ancient church nor the Catholic church, therefore you are indeed a Protestant by definition.

Incorrect. Protestants split off of the Catholic Church. The true Church existed before the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville

The trinity and the Catholic Church did not exist at the time of Polycarp? Prove it, present facts.

Tertullian, around 200 AD, was the first to use the word trinity and teach the theory of the trinity.

Oh?

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus explicitly commands his apostles to baptize in the name of the Trinity. This is where the Church received the Trinitarian formula. It wasn’t some pope’s idea. In Acts 2:38 the author is not presenting a liturgical formula. He is concerned with distinguishing Christ’s baptism from John the Baptist’s. The practice of the early Church was thoroughly Trinitarian.

You are correct in regards to Protestantism. However, Protestants are at least Christian. By that very definition, as other posters have said, you are not Christian.

What about the Church not existing at the time of Polycarp? Please answer the complete question.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by colbe


jigger, speak of "mindless", the word "spewing" is so overused on the Internet. Find another term, it makes me think of sickness and throwing up. You don't have to be harsh, you're smarter than that...

How long are you gong to pretend God's revelation isn't true? All the mystical and science tested, science
can't explain...point to Christ, to the Blessed Trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

One thing about the Blessed Trinity, God is simple and still the most complex, how fascinating for us to
think about and mysterious.

Sorry if you took that as harsh. I put no venom into it. I like the word spew, that's all. Sometimes I call writing irrational thoughts 'verbal vomit', but I'm not calling you crazy or anything. Just having some fun while chatting. But, why you didn't answer any of my points related to what you wrote.

Please, as honestly as you can, and without any need to feel defensive about it, what are your thoughts on this:

1. When you say god is going to act soon, you are saying what? That god is going to kill all of us? End Earth?

2. You want to go to heaven and be a mindless happy soul singing praise to this god throughout ALL of eternity?

3. Or, if you didn't get His message right while here on earth and you end up in hell, too late! You do realize this is the chance you're taking, right?

4. As a believer, you should be frightened out of your mind with this prospect. Why aren't you scared to death?

Jigger,

Colbe can answer in his own words, since after all these questions were directed at him, but if I may, I'd like to take a whack at it.

1. No one knows exactly when He will act, only what signs to look for. Christians (and many other non-Christians) believe that death is not to be feared, as it is only the beginning of the next stage of our immortal life. As far as ending the earth goes, it is only to create a new earth!

2. All Christians want to go to Heaven. MHO is we aren't mindless at all, but would desire to praise Him for the rest of eternity.

3. Yes, that is a chance all mankind takes! As Christians, we believe you only have one physical life, and you'd better get it right! As the bumper sticker I once saw says "If you're living like there's no God, you'd better be right." Point is, we are all held accountable for our actions; either in this life or the next.

4. As a believer, why would we be scared? For us it is an event of great joy!

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by colbe


jigger, speak of "mindless", the word "spewing" is so overused on the Internet. Find another term, it makes me think of sickness and throwing up. You don't have to be harsh, you're smarter than that...

How long are you gong to pretend God's revelation isn't true? All the mystical and science tested, science
can't explain...point to Christ, to the Blessed Trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

One thing about the Blessed Trinity, God is simple and still the most complex, how fascinating for us to
think about and mysterious.

Sorry if you took that as harsh. I put no venom into it. I like the word spew, that's all. Sometimes I call writing irrational thoughts 'verbal vomit', but I'm not calling you crazy or anything. Just having some fun while chatting. But, why you didn't answer any of my points related to what you wrote.

Please, as honestly as you can, and without any need to feel defensive about it, what are your thoughts on this:
1. When you say god is going to act soon, you are saying what? That god is going to kill all of us? End Earth?

2. You want to go to heaven and be a mindless happy soul singing praise to this god throughout ALL of eternity?

3. Or, if you didn't get His message right while here on earth and you end up in hell, too late! You do realize this is the chance you're taking, right?

4. As a believer, you should be frightened out of your mind with this prospect. Why aren't you scared to death?

Thank you for your kind reply.

I can answer your first question but your other three. Come on jigger, an adolescent asks these kind of
questions. Everything you've read of God comes down to "I am sending you to hell if you don't do as I say?"

No...

You need to read more, especially Catholic writings, there is the fullness. Search by typing in Catholic
Apologetics before you type in any subject about God. Read the footnotes of the English translation of the
first Bible, the Latin Vulgate. Word for word translation... www.drbo.org...

I can share, on question #2. If you believe in God in this life, in His ways instead of Satan (God knows what is best for us), you are happy here, it isn't a matter of going to Heaven and then, you're happy. The wildest thing, it doesn't matter the circumstance of your life, there is a joy in knowing who God is and that He loves us.

Your first question, I was talking about the prophesied Great Warning. Protestants hear it called the
"awakening" in prophecy (private revelation). Read Revelation 6:15-17.

Here's a wonderful explanation and so much history, showing the saints from history speak of this Great
Warning, it is soon. When the world is at it's worst AND another sign, when Communism comes again.

www.revelacionesmarianas.com...


God bless you,

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by colbe


jigger, speak of "mindless", the word "spewing" is so overused on the Internet. Find another term, it makes me think of sickness and throwing up. You don't have to be harsh, you're smarter than that...

How long are you gong to pretend God's revelation isn't true? All the mystical and science tested, science
can't explain...point to Christ, to the Blessed Trinity, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

One thing about the Blessed Trinity, God is simple and still the most complex, how fascinating for us to
think about and mysterious.

Sorry if you took that as harsh. I put no venom into it. I like the word spew, that's all. Sometimes I call writing irrational thoughts 'verbal vomit', but I'm not calling you crazy or anything. Just having some fun while chatting. But, why you didn't answer any of my points related to what you wrote.

Please, as honestly as you can, and without any need to feel defensive about it, what are your thoughts on this:

1. When you say god is going to act soon, you are saying what? That god is going to kill all of us? End Earth?

2. You want to go to heaven and be a mindless happy soul singing praise to this god throughout ALL of eternity?

3. Or, if you didn't get His message right while here on earth and you end up in hell, too late! You do realize this is the chance you're taking, right?

4. As a believer, you should be frightened out of your mind with this prospect. Why aren't you scared to death?

Jigger,

Colbe can answer in his own words, since after all these questions were directed at him, but if I may, I'd like to take a whack at it.

1. No one knows exactly when He will act, only what signs to look for. Christians (and many other non-Christians) believe that death is not to be feared, as it is only the beginning of the next stage of our immortal life. As far as ending the earth goes, it is only to create a new earth!

2. All Christians want to go to Heaven. MHO is we aren't mindless at all, but would desire to praise Him for the rest of eternity.

3. Yes, that is a chance all mankind takes! As Christians, we believe you only have one physical life, and you'd better get it right! As the bumper sticker I once saw says "If you're living like there's no God, you'd better be right." Point is, we are all held accountable for our actions; either in this life or the next.

4. As a believer, why would we be scared?

For us it is an event of great joy!

I just saw this post, a wonderful explanation for you jigger.

Isidore, you are sooo.. kind, I wish there were a little ATS hugging figure I could post.



thank you,


colbe

Originally posted by IsidoreOfSeville
Tertullian, around 200 AD, was the first to use the word trinity and teach the theory of the trinity.

Oh?

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus explicitly commands his apostles to baptize in the name of the Trinity.

Since he'll be along shortly to state it, I'll pre-empt Truejew -- his cult uses a different version of The Gospel of Matthew which does not have 28:19 in it. Well, actually it does, but the whole verse is just the word "Go".

This alternate version of Matthew that they use is claimed to be the "Hebrew Gospel of Matthew", which they claim is the original text, though all evidence is that it is a forgery, created by Jews in the 14th Century to serve as a basis to argue against Christianity.

He'll also claim that "many modern scholars say that Matthew 28:19 was added after the fact", which isn't true (illegitimate "scholars", such as the Jesus Seminar, do not qualify,) and every Bible ever found (apart from forgeries like his) have that text in them.

reply to post by colbe

I can answer your first question but your other three. Come on jigger, an adolescent asks these kind of questions.

Ahhh, you opened the can of worms there, my friend. Speaking of adolescents, you believe that there is an ALL-knowing, ALL-powerful, inVISible being who created the WHOLE universe, who lives in another dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, and who was never born and will never die.

I will say nothing further because if you don't see this belief as totally absurd, then there's no reason to continue this chat.

reply to post by adjensen


Perhaps.

Originally posted by truejew
Jesus was a man whose Spirit was God. His Spirit humbled Himself to be as a man.

Philippians 2:5-8 (KJV)
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Reading the replies today, newjew, listen to adjensen and Isidore. They better explain the faith than I do. I like to share the messages from Heaven, even the current Protestant messages. God would know, He is helping everyone, prophecy (private revelation) is more explicit. We can better understand God's revelation and the spiritual times we're in... Under my name, colbe, check my list of threads.

A comment on the Blessed Trinity, Christians believe in the Trinity. Why are you going with a few who say no? The verses you refer to are about Our Lord humbling Himself and doesn't change the Truth, Jesus Christ has two natures, He is fully God AND fully man. We can't comprehend the Incarnation or the Trinity totally, we take it on faith.

See...the footnote: www.drbo.org...


Phil 2:6-10
[6] Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. [8] He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. [9] For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names: [10] That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth:

7 ~ Emptied himself: made himself as of no account.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by colbe

 

I can answer your first question but your other three. Come on jigger, an adolescent asks these kind of questions.

Ahhh, you opened the can of worms there, my friend. Speaking of adolescents, you believe that there is an ALL-knowing, ALL-powerful, inVISible being who created the WHOLE universe, who lives in another dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, and who was never born and will never die.
I will say nothing further because if you don't see this belief as totally absurd, then there's no reason to continue this chat.

edit on 1/25/2013 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

Yes! I loved the way you said it, the underlined. You left something out because of your disbelief, God is ALL-loving, He is the source of love and happiness. You just need faith and to be more childlike. Before you fall to sleep tonight, ask God the Father to give you faith, He will do it. Speak to Him.

Do it jigger, if you speak to God, you have prayed. It's really true, the more you pray, the more you want to pray.

We are all prodigal sons, God the Father will run to you and throw His arms around you.



Promise me, you'll pray every day from now on...okay?

colbe

See you all later...

reply to post by jiggerj

Originally posted by jiggerj
Speaking of adolescents, you believe that there is an ALL-knowing, ALL-powerful, inVISible being who created the WHOLE universe, who lives in another dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, and who was never born and will never die.

Let's set aside the "lives in another dimension called heaven" part, because I think that's an oversimplification, but aside from that, can you explain to me how the rest of it is irrational? You don't believe it, that's fine, and you don't personally see any evidence of it, which is also fine. But how is it irrational (by definition, impossible to be true)?

I only ask because mine is a reasoned faith, not a revealed one, so I apparently missed the boat on why it's utterly impossible to contemplate. There's a reason that the lowest number of atheists in the scientific community are in the fields of physics and maths.

reply to post by colbe

You just need faith and to be more childlike.

You said it all right there.

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Originally posted by jiggerj
Speaking of adolescents, you believe that there is an ALL-knowing, ALL-powerful, inVISible being who created the WHOLE universe, who lives in another dimension called heaven, who is perfect in every way, and who was never born and will never die.

Let's set aside the "lives in another dimension called heaven" part, because I think that's an oversimplification, but aside from that, can you explain to me how the rest of it is irrational? You don't believe it, that's fine, and you don't personally see any evidence of it, which is also fine. But how is it irrational (by definition, impossible to be true)?

I only ask because mine is a reasoned faith, not a revealed one, so I apparently missed the boat on why it's utterly impossible to contemplate. There's a reason that the lowest number of atheists in the scientific community are in the fields of physics and maths.

How can it be anything BUT irrational? As for evidence, LOOK at the world, Ad. Where do you see the hand of this god in anything? Over six billion religious people go around saying love, love, love, but we're on the verge of a world war. Where's the love? Where's the god? Over five thousand years of religious orientation and we're still doing what humans do - war, hate, fear, intolerance, greed, ignorance, domination, selfishness, crime, murder, rape, hunger, poverty, arrogance, pride... Humans have not changed at all, not one bit. There's no god behind this - only a species of animal called human.

Originally posted by adjensen There's a reason that the lowest number of atheists in the scientific community are in the fields of physics and maths.

I'm not seeing this. Not specific fields but, here:

reply to post by jiggerj


Wait a second, did you really just say "God says we're supposed to love each other, we don't and the world sucks as a result"?

How is that God's fault?

As for the statistics, I don't remember the original study that I saw, but here is another one:

We found the highest percentage of belief among NAS mathematicians (14.3% in God, 15.0% in immortality). Biological scientists had the lowest rate of belief (5.5% in God, 7.1% in immortality), with physicists and astronomers slightly higher (7.5% in God, 7.5% in immortality). (Source)

I'm not saying that physicists and mathematicians aren't atheists, just that they have a lower rate, and that there's a reason for it, the same reason that I'm not an atheist.

That's a rational reason, I'm just asking why you think that it's irrational to even consider it, as your post stated.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by colbe

 

You just need faith and to be more childlike.

You said it all right there.

Hi, not exactly jigger,
you left off my advise to pray, this is an "act"....a WORK. The only place in Scripture you see the term "faith alone" is in James 2:24 which shows the heresy of 'faith alone" is not from God.

Drat Martin Luther and his heresy. Other heresies have come from "faith alone", our brothers and sisters hang on to "faith alone" like their mother's wedding ring.


James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Wait a second, did you really just say "God says we're supposed to love each other, we don't and the world sucks as a result"?

Don't think so. I thought I getting at how, through the belief in a god, over six billion people have been teaching and preaching love. The point is, there are 7 billion people, so if 90% of them are religious, who is destroying the planet?

reply to post by adjensen

I'm not saying that physicists and mathematicians aren't atheists, just that they have a lower rate, and that there's a reason for it, the same reason that I'm not an atheist. That's a rational reason, I'm just asking why you think that it's irrational to even consider it, as your post stated.

First off, my statement of an all-knowing, mystical magical being is right up there with stories of Alice in Wonderland and Wizard of Oz. Why don't you believe these stories, too? If you find them to be purely fictional, then what part of your rational mind can separate the god story from the others? It is completely irrational to believe in a white rabbit carrying a pocket watch, magic ruby slippers, or a man walking on water. All of these stories are literary nonsense.

Originally posted by colbe

Hi, not exactly jigger,
you left off my advise to pray,
James 2:24
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?

Yes, if you get out of the bible and into man's history you will see by his works that there is no god. People have been praying and preaching for over five thousand years. Is the world better off today for all this praying? If you think, yes, then either you haven't watched the news for the last fifty years, or you and I must be living in different worlds.