People advocating or warning of a new American Revolution or Civil War...Who are your enemies?

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by xedocodex

 

That is for me anybody that wants to undermind and change our constitutional rights, as we are a nation rule by a constiution, in any other nation will be any body that tries to undermind the peoples rights that has been established in any particular nation for the protection of the freedoms of their citizens.

Plain and simple.

So you believe you have the individual right to deem someone an enemy if they advocate a law that you don't agree with?

Tell me, does the Constitution say that the bill of rights are exempt from amendment? If so, that must be in a different Constitution than I have read.

So again, I don't understand who your enemies are besides anyone that disagrees with you.

reply to post by 11235813213455


I've been biting on that worm and stealing the bait for years now, decade even. If any thing was of concern, I would know. There is nothing to be worried about, freedom of speech, or not, it is not illegal to talk about American History.

If that day comes, I will drive my 20 ft holiday camper to the WH lawn, and protest with every veteran buddy I have and can find. Until were heard, or acted against. But, I fear for those who would dare...

So after a page of replies, no one has come out to say exactly who the enemy is.

The most common response seems to be, the enemy is who that individual deems the enemy because they don't like their beliefs.

And that doesn't seem like a very American way of thinking.

reply to post by xedocodex


I'm hoping your playing devils advocate here, and I appreciate your perspective. But I also, hope you know what I mean. In the sense; that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

these sheep believe everything they read on the internet

a violent revolution is impossible, and you can't get people off of their phones long enough to protest

so no, it will be more of the same unfortunatley

Originally posted by ADVISOR
reply to post by xedocodex

 

I'm hoping your playing devils advocate here, and I appreciate your perspective. But I also, hope you know what I mean. In the sense; that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

No, I am not playing devil's advocate and I strongly support strict gun control. Does that make me a "domestic enemy" to you? Do I not have the right to express my opinion and petition my politicians to pass laws that I think are important? Does the polititian become an enemy because he listens to his constituents? Does the President become an "enemy" because he signs a bill that was passed by our elected politicians? Does the President become an "enemy" because he uses his executive power to better enforce our current laws? Does a police officer or any other officer become an "enemy" because he enforces the current laws?

Just because you take an oath, it doesn't give you the right or ability to deem anyone you would like an "enemy" because they don't agree with you.

reply to post by xedocodex


No, as a matter of fact it does not.

It make you one of my most valued allies.

Because I want to listen to your stance.

It is just there are those, who are on the opposite side of the fence, whom are way more radical. And that is why I try to stay as moderate as I can.

Give, such isn't easy, I like to think I'm half way there...

reply to post by xedocodex


No, my friend, many here has done a great job answring your question, But if your purpose is to instigate posters to get a particular answer, then I am gladly to tell you that people in ATS are smarter than you think

Is only one enemy in any nation and that enemy is the one that try to take the nations extablished freedoms of their citizens.

To point out and quote my signature;

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.-Thomas Jefferson

You see, it is not, the people that worries me or to whom I perceive to be a threat.
As it is the government, that which abuses the position in which they were elected, by those whom they should represent.

Originally posted by xedocodex
So after a page of replies, no one has come out to say exactly who the enemy is.

The most common response seems to be, the enemy is who that individual deems the enemy because they don't like their beliefs.

And that doesn't seem like a very American way of thinking.

No, you're just wearing your little worm hook blinders to the replies you've received. You appear to arbitrarily toss any reply that that is based on Patriotism. You are not using both your eyes to read replies. You are attempting to negate replies with your own self induced blindness. You, my friend, have the problem of non-acceptance of another persons point of view.

Des

reply to post by xedocodex


Don't you just love how Contelpro tries to get people to violate the law by saying things which could be construed as threats against individuals or organizations? Bless their little hearts, they try so hard.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by xedocodex

 

No, my friend, many here has done a great job answring your question, But if your purpose is to instigate posters to get a particular answer, then I am gladly to tell you that people in ATS are smarter than you think

Is only one enemy in any nation and that enemy is the one that try to take the nations extablished freedoms of their citizens.

No, my goal is to advance a discussion.

I'll pose it to you as I did to Advisor, but in a bit of a different way.

Am I your enemy?
Would I be your enemy if I was a strong advocate for gun control?
Would I be your enemy if I was a strong advocate to amend the Constitution to make gun ownershipt more prohibitive?
Would I be your enemy if I was a politician and did the same?
Would I be your enemy if I was the President and sign into a law gun control?
Woudl I be your enemy if I was a police officer that enforced the new gun control law?

Or let's take it from another angle. Let's say that a revolution does break out, open revolution and the driving force behind it is gun control.

I am your neighbor, and you know that by talking to me before the Revolution started, that I was pro-gun control. Because as Americans we are free to express ourselves without fear of retaliation. Does that make me and my family enemies and targets for your Revolution? If it does, then how is your Revolution any better than what you claim to be revolting against?


Speaking in vagueness like "anyone who is against the constitution is my enemy" is nice rhetoric, but it doesn't really match well with reality.

reply to post by xedocodex


let me back step and say that a Civil war in the US is unlikely as most Americans tend to support constitutional rights. We as human and citizens may differ on opinions but a war against our neighbors on the rights that offer freedoms to all of us is unlikely.

That is why advocating a warning of a new American Revolution is propaganda and a civil war unlikely.

reply to post by xedocodex

No, my goal is to advance a discussion.

I'll pose it to you as I did to Advisor, but in a bit of a different way.

Am I your enemy?
Would I be your enemy if I was a strong advocate for gun control?
Would I be your enemy if I was a strong advocate to amend the Constitution to make gun ownershipt more prohibitive?
Would I be your enemy if I was a politician and did the same?
Would I be your enemy if I was the President and sign into a law gun control?
Woudl I be your enemy if I was a police officer that enforced the new gun control law?

Or let's take it from another angle. Let's say that a revolution does break out, open revolution and the driving force behind it is gun control.

I am your neighbor, and you know that by talking to me before the Revolution started, that I was pro-gun control. Does that make me and my family enemies and targets for your Revolution?


Speaking in vagueness like "anyone who is against the constitution is my enemy" is nice rhetoric, but it doesn't really match well with reality.

Now you are begging????!!!!!!!

I think you need to tell your bosses (at whatever alphabet agency you work for) that you need some more training!

People have answered your questions already! Now you want specifics????? WOW!!!

Originally posted by xedocodex

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by xedocodex

 

No, my friend, many here has done a great job answring your question, But if your purpose is to instigate posters to get a particular answer, then I am gladly to tell you that people in ATS are smarter than you think

Is only one enemy in any nation and that enemy is the one that try to take the nations extablished freedoms of their citizens.

No, my goal is to advance a discussion.

I'll pose it to you as I did to Advisor, but in a bit of a different way.

Am I your enemy?
Would I be your enemy if I was a strong advocate for gun control?
Would I be your enemy if I was a strong advocate to amend the Constitution to make gun ownershipt more prohibitive?
Would I be your enemy if I was a politician and did the same?
Would I be your enemy if I was the President and sign into a law gun control?
Woudl I be your enemy if I was a police officer that enforced the new gun control law?

Or let's take it from another angle. Let's say that a revolution does break out, open revolution and the driving force behind it is gun control.

I am your neighbor, and you know that by talking to me before the Revolution started, that I was pro-gun control. Because as Americans we are free to express ourselves without fear of retaliation. Does that make me and my family enemies and targets for your Revolution? If it does, then how is your Revolution any better than what you claim to be revolting against?


Speaking in vagueness like "anyone who is against the constitution is my enemy" is nice rhetoric, but it doesn't really match well with reality.

edit on 14-1-2013 by xedocodex because: (no reason given)

You deny baiting for a specific response in one breath, and then do nothing but that in the next.

You are as transparent as water on pavement, and your tactics here are about as deep.

You are not interested in discussion. Discussion implies a willingness to learn. You are only interested in a brawl with people whose ideologies disagree with your own, and attempting (badly) to bait those people into saying something that you can paint as "crazy", or "violent", possibly incriminating, or some combination of all three.

I hope they close this thread.

reply to post by Destinyone

No, you're just wearing your little worm hook blinders to the replies you've received. You appear to arbitrarily toss any reply that that is based on Patriotism. You are not using both your eyes to read replies. You are attempting to negate replies with your own self induced blindness. You, my friend, have the problem of non-acceptance of another persons point of view.

It's true that I am pretty much dismissing replies that use "patriotism" or "the constitution" as their basis for their reply.

I do this because it is empty rhetoric. I can claim that I am pro-gun control because I am patriotic and our gun culture is killing our nation, and that I want to use the means provided to us by the Constitution to pass laws to correct mistakes made by the founders (wouldn't be the first time we had to correct their short sightedness).

So what makes my claims of patriotism and use of the Constitution any more valid then yours? In short, it doesn't, but then again, I'm not using those claims to justify killing fellow Americans.

By the very freedom we enjoy and the means provided by our very own Constitution to ammend it and add laws, it is pretty damn hard to claim someone is going against the Constitution by expressing their opinions and wanting to Constitutional make changes based on those opinions.

On the other hand, claiming that you want to start killing fellow Americans if those Constitutional methods are used to change our laws...that IS in fact going against the Constitution.

So who exactly is the patriot? The one wanting to use the Constitution to correct a problem within our society or the one wanting to start a revolution over people using the Constitution as it was intended?

By definition, aren't the enemies in a revolution the Government of varying stages?

Either State or Federal, a revolution would probably be very short lived. I doubt that many troops would side with the American people in such a revolution, at least in the beginning.

As far as a civil war, if this were ever to happen in today's environment, it would be rich vs poor or liberal ideology vs far right ideology.

Very, very hard to figure out who the targets would be in either situation.

Personally, I'm amazed this thread is still up. The T&Cs of ATS prohibit making threats, and prohibit discussion of illegal activities. This thread is nothing short of asking members to make direct threats by naming individuals allegedly being "targeted". Clearly this is a trolling attempt, and not very well thought out in regards to the forum rules.

I've heard people voice concerns over possible "civil war" type scenarios in my daily life around the city, but I've never seen anyone make a threat against anyone, or any agency in particular in regards to such.

Originally posted by redhorse
For the record:

Troll thread.

My two cents.

Amazing how the gun nuts cry troll when someone asks a perfectly reasonable and logical question. Anyone would think they are just trying to label people with anything they can think of as a way to deflect from the topic.

reply to post by Kryties


There is nothing reasonable or logical about asking people to break forum rules, and break laws by posting direct threats against the lives of "named" individuals and/or groups/agencies.