AMERICA LAND OF THE FREE propaganda used to fool the people ?

Became a dictatorship the day the "executive order" came into being.

The US was set up with 3 branches to keep each other in check, but executive orders give the executive branch a way to skirt around the legislative and judicial branch. Allowing the one branch to make law more or less.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I disagree. We do not try and portray ourselves as the role model of human rights. We are not self proclaimed champions of human rights. The world just watches too many of our movies and TV shows (which your countries BUY, no pushing there) and takes them as "official" messages to the world from us. We are not going to save the planet. Captain planet like Captain America is fiction.

I did not use a straw man argument as a diversionary tactic either. I was trying to show the dishonest nature of threads like this where the focus is on the US and NOT the supposed issue at hand. I mentioned China because if the OP was worried about human rights violations he would have no problem showcasing other countries with REAL human rights nightmares....

The US may have problems with its foreign policies and their impact, but this is about human rights violations, RIGHT? NOT US hypocrisy....

If it is about both, or rather US hypocrisy then other examples of it are better suited to do so. Human rights are not a problem in the US. We have successful state of human rights in the US.

If the OP was to talk about US hypocrisy and mentioned our "liberation" of Iraq, OK. That was hypocritical. If he would mention Frances recent concern with Al-Qaeda in Africa all of a sudden, then OK. They dont give a crap about Somalia and company (target practice and combat experience)....it is dirty Africa to Europeans. That would also be hypocrisy.

This is just a loosely arranged argument that is trying to be critical about the US. There is no proposed solution. There is no source of the problem stated. Just blah blah blah about the imperfection of a country of humans......

So I am sorry. I disagree. I do so for thought out and well motivated reasons. Ignorance, as it were, is the state of IGNORING the facts willingly and perpetuating a lack of understanding and knowledge (my definition).

I have my reasons for doubting the sincerity of the OP, not his tenacity.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


I'll start off by saying this is a much better argument then you presented in your previous posts, so I'll try to address some of your major points individually.

I did not use a straw man argument as a diversionary tactic either. I was trying to show the dishonest nature of threads like this where the focus is on the US and NOT the supposed issue at hand. I mentioned China because if the OP was worried about human rights violations he would have no problem showcasing other countries with REAL human rights nightmares....

The problem with bringing up China is that nothing we say or do here in the States (or even Europe) is going to have much effect in changing the way China takes care of its people. You are right, China is a nightmare, everyone knows this, but what can we do to stop them short of overthrowing the government? I'm not trying to advocate violating national sovereignty and I'm sure the OP isn't either. This leaves the solution to try to be a beacon of human rights and hope that countries such as China take up our example. Yet as the OP points out we are failing at doing that. Who are we to denounce China's actions when we cannot even get our own house in order?

If the OP was to talk about US hypocrisy and mentioned our "liberation" of Iraq, OK. That was hypocritical. If he would mention Frances recent concern with Al-Qaeda in Africa all of a sudden, then OK. They dont give a crap about Somalia or company (target practice and combat experience)....it is dirty Africa to Europeans. That would also be hypocrisy.

But our human rights are hypocritical. Sure we made large strides in the right direction up through the 90's, however the way I see it, within the last 12 years we have seriously gone in the wrong direction. And in some cases we've even gone backwards. Yet we still try to present ourselves as a top first world country, when in reality we are dropping lower and lower each year.

This is just a loosely arranged argument that is trying to be critical about the US. There is no proposed solution. There is no source of the problem stated. Just blah blah blah about the imperfection of a country of humans......

Why does there have to be solutions? Maybe the OP is trying to educate us here on ATS because he lacks ideas to present as solutions and wants to see what we have to say on the matter. Maybe we can brainstorm solutions together.

I think the OP does a good job of showing our problems and one must know and acknowledge one's problems before he or she can fix them.

Welll how do you feel your freedoms are being infringed upon?

Its a thread designed to wake people up to its own system. America claiming to be Land of the Free is a very ignorant statement in todays world.

reply to post by Merinda


Patriot act and NDAA strip us of due process and right to a fair trial. Our privacy has been slowly eroded over the years due to NSA, Homeland Security, and the TSA. The federal government assumes more and more power each year that the states are supposed to manage. Now the government is trying to strip us of our guns.

Just because some of these denial of rights aren't effecting you or me doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Exactly its all passed under the disguise of Freedom, while its exactly the opposite thats happening. Its a manipulation of the word freedom.

In my humble opinion, freedom is not something granted to me by any government, constitution or law. And never has been. It is something that I have always had and that cannot be taken from me unless I give it away freely.

If I am imprisoned and still know in my heart who I really am, what is truth and what is real, am I not free?

If I believe that it is acceptable for others to lead me and that others are more able to guide my life for me, am I not a slave?

Then define freedom.
If it is by a measure of degrees then who has the most?
Your opinion will get the thread burned, use facts AS YOU UNDERSTAND THEM. I do.
A very difficult and complex proposal isn't it?
All the facts aren't known either,a great deal of secrecy is in play for control,but I'm sure that is intended.
To most Americans,evidently over the age of 35 America IS the best country,or was until the 80s when we were attacked by bankers. We will see what happens until then I will believe in the people of my country until death.

Originally posted by blaenau2000

Originally posted by Merlin Lawndart
Land of the free...home of the world's largest prison population.

Prisons that provide cheap labour for corporations..... Disgusting !

well, move then, if you don't like it....nobodys going to stop you

Originally posted by oasisjack
We were free once. Then greed and power swept through our system in the form of lobbying buying the rights of our population with hookers and luxuries. We are slowly being drowned by a heavy hand that sneaks in new laws and provisions while our eyes are fixated on false issues of left and right. The corruption is so wide spread you would be hard pressed to find an offical who is not completely owned by corporation or special interest. If we vote them out it is to no avail as the next official will be funded and their for prepaid by the same coporations and interests as the one he will replace.

I'm sorry to disagree, but this country never has been free. Governments by their very nature are forms of control. In my humble opinion, freedom is a personal, spiritual issue. Not about what rights some government grants me.

Think bigger...

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Singled out you say?
Are all countries being singled out when we bring up criticism about them?
Like the propaganda war on Iran. Why are we singling them out when many other countries have nukes?

How do we offer constructive criticism about our country when it is going the wrong direction on so many levels?
If you scold your child for something he did, do you think it valid if he said, "Well, Joey across the street did the same thing, Lets talk about Joey."

Of course not, the discussion should be about what is wrong and finding solutions for those problems.
Our country has lost many freedoms and is under attack daily and these problems should be pointed out, not only for American's, but also for those outside the country, because they will also put pressure on the corruption and the corruptible that need to change.


I want the whole world to know our problems so they too can put the pressure on, because change is sure not happening with what is going on.

reply to post by KingIcarus


We are not more free, and any informed person can vouch for this if they wish, by simply looking up the stats on the world's other countries. It just helps ones ego to spout propaganda and live in ignorance, than to seek the truth.

please tell me which nations do you consider free? also depends on what you consider "freedom".

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
please tell me which nations do you consider free? also depends on what you consider "freedom".

Whilst there are Nations, there will be NO freedom. Freedom means FREEDOM

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
please tell me which nations do you consider free? also depends on what you consider "freedom".

You can start here if you want an in depth look at what is considered.
www.freedomhouse.org...

Here is a PDF with the list of countries in the world as being free / not free / partial.

www.freedomhouse.org...

Again, to understand how they made this list, and what the qualifiers were, you will have to do some reading.

I would not consider America Free for example, if we were to just base it on having, Freedom of Speech"
The origins of this country and the freedom they spoke of had many qualifiers that we are now failing on.