On religion, transcendence, and aliens

Having been asked to view this video of Adi Da Samraj: Whole Body Spirituality , as best I could I watched the first ten minutes twice.

Right from the start, this man said, "There must be this literal biological or biophysical transformation of the body-mind." Once I heard this I knew that anything this man had to say, it would mean nothing to me. It's as if this man spoke a different language, or that he was speaking utter nonsense (hold on, I will clarify this statement in a minute). I'm not saying that others wouldn't make some sense out of it. I'm saying that maybe it's just me because I am not in this game, and I'll try to explain what I mean.

In today's world it's all about money. We give our kids an allowance. We look for higher paying jobs. We feel elated if we win money, and feel like failures when we lose money. We need money to survive, to pay our bills, to go on vacations... Money, money, money...

Now, an intelligent alien race comes here to live with us on this planet. This race has always had its needs provided, so that the rewards from working come from playing an important role in their society. When we talk to these aliens we say things like:

You can't make money if you don't spend money.
You can take that to the bank.
He's laughing all the way to the bank.
A penny earned is a penny saved.
Neither lender nor borrower be.
A penny for your thoughts.
He's worth his weight in gold.
Right now I'm broke, but I hope to be rich some day.

Now, we know that money isn't real; it's a game that somebody made up a long time ago. But, seeing as we are now born and raised in this game, money has become very real to us. When we talk about money (as in the statements above), it makes perfect sense to us, while the aliens would be going out of their minds trying to figure out what in the hell we're saying. We would sound utterly insane to them.

This is the same with those that have immersed themselves in the metaphysical: religious beliefs, transcendence, spirituality... The believers in such things slowly opened their minds to what isn't real, and the longer they studied such states of being, the more concrete these beliefs became, until these beliefs transformed into something very real to them, leaving the rest of us looking at them as though they were talking utter nonsense. They completely understand what they are talking about, just as we understand the concept of money, but to those that aren't in that particular game, it's all just gobbledygook.

So, just as we will never break away from the concept of money (that isn't real) and work simply for the betterment of mankind, then I doubt we will ever get the believers in the metaphysical to see the falseness of their claims. And, we will never grasp what in the hell they're talking about.

This is just my two cents worth.

reply to post by jiggerj


With money one can at least buy some food to eat. In spirituality, nothing is gained nor cashed in.

It seems to me that spirituality is a hedonistic quest for self-satisfaction. Sometimes it is necessary to lie to oneself and find faith in the metaphysical in order to attain any sort of that kind of deluded happiness. I agree that, like money, spirituality is an illusory trap; a trap that one puts oneself into to avoid facing facts.

reply to post by jiggerj

reply to post by BlueMule


I love his saying, It's all retch and no vomit. You never really get there.

That can be said of sooo many things.

What is this money is not real nonsense? Money, like everything else, is as real as you want it to be. It might not be 'real' to you but it certainly is to many others. There's no right or wrong here as in there is nothing wrong in not wanting to make money real in your life, its up to yourself. If someone wants God to be real in their life then what is that to you? you are free not to but why knock those who do? Believe it or not this world is more than big enough for all of us to find what we are looking for so long as we make room for each other.

Originally posted by Shema


What is this money is not real nonsense? Money, like everything else, is as real as you want it to be. It might not be 'real' to you but it certainly is to many others. There's no right or wrong here as in there is nothing wrong in not wanting to make money real in your life, its up to yourself. If someone wants God to be real in their life then what is that to you? you are free not to but why knock those who do? Believe it or not this world is more than big enough for all of us to find what we are looking for so long as we make room for each other.

You are exactly right to think that money is as real as you want it to be. This doesn't change the fact that it ISN'T real. As for the rest of your discussion, I've been through these arguments many times here. I just don't want to write them all over again. If you really want to know why we need to 'knock those who do' then how about this: Religion Poisons Everything

reply to post by jiggerj


I presume from what you said that you know what is real. We ourselves determine what is and isn't real. Reality isn't something that is carved into concrete. I suspect that you are anti religion because you don't think it is 'real' . Okay but to many other people it is. Who exactly are you to say they are poisoning the world? Critical debate and analysis is one thing but to incite one side against another is dangerous and cowardly.

Myself? I'm not even a religious person although I do know that an omnipotent being, a God as we call him, does indeed exist. Knowing this is enough for me but if I didn't know for certain then possibly, probably, I would be as strung up and indisposed as you come across as being so I do not lack empathy towards you its just that I think you are leaning far too far in the one direction when what really matters in ones life is balance, harmony and symmetry for sound health mentally, emotionally and spiritually.

reply to post by Shema

Who exactly are you to say they are poisoning the world?

I take it you don't want to watch any debates between scholars that know a LOT more than you or I could ever learn on our own. That's fine, you can believe anything you want, but I'm not going to debate this over and over one person at a time. By the by, if you had watched the clip you'd see that I didn't coin the phrase: Religion poisons everything.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Shema

 

Who exactly are you to say they are poisoning the world?

I take it you don't want to watch any debates between scholars that know a LOT more than you or I could ever learn on our own. That's fine, you can believe anything you want, but I'm not going to debate this over and over one person at a time. By the by, if you had watched the clip you'd see that I didn't coin the phrase: Religion poisons everything.

As you wish except I don't know why you would introduce a subject when you don't want to talk about it. Or is just me you don't want to talk to? Sure, I'm just a nobody. Go back to your scholars.

Originally posted by Shema

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Shema

 

Who exactly are you to say they are poisoning the world?

I take it you don't want to watch any debates between scholars that know a LOT more than you or I could ever learn on our own. That's fine, you can believe anything you want, but I'm not going to debate this over and over one person at a time. By the by, if you had watched the clip you'd see that I didn't coin the phrase: Religion poisons everything.

As you wish except I don't know why you would introduce a subject when you don't want to talk about it. Or is just me you don't want to talk to? Sure, I'm just a nobody. Go back to your scholars.

Well, you want to argue that money is real, instead of a concept that man made up. So, debating with you would be splitting hairs on even the most trivial of ideas. I'm too tired for that.

reply to post by jiggerj

They completely understand what they are talking about, just as we understand the concept of money, but to those that aren't in that particular game, it's all just gobbledygook.

If its language of believers that you don't understand then both you and the believer need to work to come to understanding.

For most who believe in Christ or a metaphysical idea, there belief came from a unique experiences. These experience are hard sometimes hard to communicate. If you present your ideas stripped of the experience then you get what your frustrated with, shallow cliches that sound like one has been brainwashed to believe the idea. It's the same in reverse jig, You preset just as shallow cliche arguments too for your unbelief. The bible is full of fairy tails, if there is a loving god then....Why doesn't god just.... if he is all powerful. You don't genuinely care or need an answer to any of your questions, your fine as long as all you have are questions.

The gobbledygook that you don't understand is not because your not in the same game, its because your have your fingers in your ears.

reply to post by jiggerj


Riiight, so you only want to talk about what you believe. That is not debate. But I shall weary you no longer.

Suggestion: Find somewhere in your life where you can chill out.

reply to post by Observationalist

You don't genuinely care or need an answer to any of your questions, your fine as long as all you have are questions. The gobbledygook that you don't understand is not because your not in the same game, its because your have your fingers in your ears.

This is not true at all. Blow me away with some evidence or mind-blowing logic and I'm right there. What we have today is a bunch of people saying they've experienced god in some way, but when shown indisputable reasoning that what they experienced is perfectly natural, they choose to still believe in a miracle that never happened.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Blow me away with some evidence or mind-blowing logic and I'm right there.

First, you could blow me away with evidence that says your logic is applicable to God. And then blow me away with logic that says evidence in the classic empirical sense is reasonable to expect in the case of God.

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by jiggerj

Blow me away with some evidence or mind-blowing logic and I'm right there.

First, you could blow me away with evidence that says your logic is applicable to God. And then blow me away with logic that says evidence in the classic empirical sense is reasonable to expect in the case of God.

edit on 15-1-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Well, that's a pretty amazing god you have there. He wants you to know him, but this all-powerful guy couldn't leave ONE TINY piece of evidence to show everyone that he's real. You gotta guess. You gotta have 'faith'. Gotta trust that what you guess about him is right. Because in this little game if you don't get it right, you go to hell. Yeah, he loves you THAT much.

Come on!

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by BlueMule

Originally posted by jiggerj

Blow me away with some evidence or mind-blowing logic and I'm right there.

First, you could blow me away with evidence that says your logic is applicable to God. And then blow me away with logic that says evidence in the classic empirical sense is reasonable to expect in the case of God.

edit on 15-1-2013 by BlueMule because: (no reason given)

Well, that's a pretty amazing god you have there. He wants you to know him, but this all-powerful guy couldn't leave ONE TINY piece of evidence to show everyone that he's real. You gotta guess. You gotta have 'faith'. Gotta trust that what you guess about him is right. Because in this little game if you don't get it right, you go to hell. Yeah, he loves you THAT much.

Come on!

Well, that's a pretty amazing straw-man you have there. When you've defeated it, let me know.