Forcing a person to get a flu shot is no different than assult and battery!!!

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by MirajI don't get your pregnancy related argument, since pregnancy is not a communicable disease.

I don't know, my old lady caught it from me, twice. Apparently I'm a carrier.

Damn funny.

Holy crow! What a bunch of ignorance is being espoused in this thread!

It is most definitely an overstep of employers to mandate vaccination. Are they taking responsibility for and adverse reactions? Do they acknowledge that for the two weeks post vaccination, you are shedding the virus and therefore MORE likely to spread the very thing they claim they want to prevent. couple this with staggered vaccination dates, and they are creating an extended period of virus exposure for patients.

First, when you actually study the literature, there isn't anything that proves that flu vaccines prevent the flu. In fact, a report published in the BSEM (march 2011) on the Vaccination policy and Code of Practice of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization(JCvI) demonstrates the JCvI have made" continuous efforts to withhold critical data on severe adverse reactions and contradictions to vaccinations to both parents and healthcare providers". The entire vaccine industry is driven by the almighty dollar, the former Chief Vaccine Control Officer of the FDA, Dr. J. Anthony Morris, has publically stated, "there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza. The producers of these vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway."

The insert of Flulaval itself states " there have been no controlled trials that adequately demonstrate a decrease in influenza disease after vaccination with Flulaval".

Add this to the studies showing number of annual flu vaccines dramatically increased rates of developing dementia in seniors. I'm not going to take the risk of developing Alzheimer's because my employer is buying the big pharma KoolAid that everyone needs to get the flu vaccine.

In an ideal world with puppies, rainbows, and unicorns, the concept of vaccination is appealing, but the real world applications have not held up to scrutiny. Vaccines contain scary ingredients and adjuvants. Not just mercury in doses that violate EPA regulations, but formaldehyde, carcinogenic compounds, animal pus and viruses, etc. if vaccine manufacturers maintain that vaccines work and are so important, then why can't they make clean versions?

I could go on and on, but for sake of brevity, I will sign off here. I will leave you with this parting gift. I do not advocate vaccination. I do not vaccinate my family. I can't tell you. My choices are the same choices you need to make for yourself and your loved ones, but I will tell you what I tell my patients- study the information available to you. There is a lot of propaganda out there, look into what the vaccines contain. Look into the potential side effects. Look into the proportionate risks of getting the disease the vaccine is supposed to protect against. Look into the rates of disease amongst vaccinated individuals. Look at the vaccines own drug inserts. When you take it all into consideration, then you are in a position to make an educated decision for your own family. Mobutu until you do all of that, you are being dictated by ignorance, greed, and the almighty dollar _none of which give one iota about your and your family's best interests.

Its bull is what it is. The vaccine that is out is obviously doing such a good job that we are at nearly pandemic levels of the flu. Its also only 66% effective when tailored to the strain that is going around.

I don't care if you are healthcare provider or what, nobody should force you to take an injection against your will. Same with kids, they shouldnt be forced to have poison squirted in their veins just so they can go to school, or get a well check up from their fricken pediatrician.

As a nation we are a bunch of quivering squirming spineless people that zone out to foxnews/cnn/jerseyshore and ignore how personal rights and freedoms are stripped away. How much longer before forced RFID chips are in teachers/nurses and other public officials so we can be sure they are "vaccinated" and mental drug free.

Its always ok to watch another persons rights erode(smokers, womans abortion rights, sugar drinks) but when it becomes something you enjoy then it becomes a travesty. Any infringement on a person should be feared and hated by all.

Granted if they were hired with the understanding they had to take the vaccination, then its their own fault for working there if they have no intention of taking the vaccination. However if this is an example of a company trying to be politically correct and dropping it on the employees, then shame on them.

reply to post by rimjaja

It is most definitely an overstep of employers to mandate vaccination. Are they taking responsibility for and adverse reactions?

You are acting like you are important. You are not important profit is important. Sick wage slaves do not perform up to expectations so there is a loss of profit. This must not be allowed to happen. So you will take your shot whether you like it or not. Because after all you are just another cog in the machine a cog in this economy that can be easily replaced.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
If you don't want a vaccine, that's your right. It's also you're right to work elsewhere.

I'll say this though... If my elderly mother were a patient where she got the flu by a medical employee that was on some little crusade against vaccines? I'd insure she was well taken care of by the settlement on the law suit....and if she didn't survive the infection..I'd be retiring on what I did to the medical facility and that employee as personally as the law could make it for them.

Really.. When working around sick people? Follow the policies or find work elsewhere. It seems a simple thing to me.

How exactly would you ever prove your mother contracted a flu bug from an unvaccinated employee? And what if your mother contracted the flu from a vaccinatated employee,who's immunue system was WEAKENED by a coherced flu shot causing them to get sick would you still sue, How about if your mother contracted one of the many reported fatal infections associated with hospital stays in general and died. Would you sue? How about if your mom was one of the over 100,000 people that die form legally prescribed drugs. Would you sue? Could you even sue? And last how about if your coworker or spouse died from shock from a reaction to a coherced vaccine? Would you sue? I think these snake oil salesman have bought enough legislators that you wouldn't be able to sue if they kill you with their poisons. Something to think about. Tell your mom to get plenty of rest, lots of sunshine for Vit D, omega 3s, plenty of pure water, keep the stress low, exercise and she will likely do fine, and of course stay away from medical mafia snake oil salesman, if they kill you with their poisons you'll have no recourse in a court of law.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by Violater1

 

Unfortuantley when you were born you mother forcefully vaccinated you with the immunitys gained through her blood.

Of course this is never 100% many babies get sick directly after birth because the natural vaccination they recieved didnt cover every virus.

Dont let logic or facts get in the way of your doomtarding, carry on.

And you should research the subject more instead of blindly believing that vaccines are safe.
It is funny how most people on ATS agrees that pharma industry is corrupt, but yet at the same time defend vaccine industry run by these very same corrupted people.
All you have to do is check the OFFICIAL studies themselves that are FUNDED by BIG PHARMA THEMSELVES and then you will realize that they are only safe because they cheat.
With gardasil study they even went so far that they injected the control group with a cocktail of adjuvants containing mercury, alluminium hydroxide and so on.
There are also plenty of studies out there that admits that thimerosol and alluminium hydroxide causes brain damage or measurable cognitive changes in so called safe doses they give us throghout the childhood.

Here is just one example of many: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Lasting neuropathological changes in rat brain after intermittent neonatal administration of thimerosal.

Abstract

Thimerosal, an organomercurial added as a preservative to some vaccines, is a suspected iatrogenic factor, possibly contributing to paediatric neurodevelopmental disorders including autism. We examined the effects of early postnatal administration of thimerosal (four i.m. injections, 12 or 240 μg THIM-Hg/kg, on postnatal days 7, 9, 11 and 15) on brain pathology in Wistar rats. Numerous neuropathological changes were observed in young adult rats which were treated postnatally with thimerosal. They included: ischaemic degeneration of neurons and "dark" neurons in the prefrontal and temporal cortex, the hippocampus and the cerebellum, pathological changes of the blood vessels in the temporal cortex, diminished synaptophysin reaction in the hippocampus, atrophy of astroglia in the hippocampus and cerebellum, and positive caspase-3 reaction in Bergmann astroglia. These findings document neurotoxic effects of thimerosal, at doses equivalent to those used in infant vaccines or higher, in developing rat brain, suggesting likely involvement of this mercurial in neurodevelopmental disorders.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


My first thought was to agree with you, but upon further thought I changed my opinion. The thing is, that you may still get the flu even if you get the vaccination. So unless it is an absolute magic bullet, there really is no reason to require workers to be vaccinated. To me the best thing would be for the hospital to require everyone who starts getting sick to actually stay home! This won't happen though, because the hospital needs it's workers so they wouldn't really stay on top of making sure that policy would be followed.

I'm important.(In my world.). And my profit is measured in terms of health and wellbeing. Quality of life. Not just now but in the long term future. So I choose not to vaccinate.

Let those that choose to vaccinate, vaccinate.

I don't even mind paying for their care when they lose their faculties earlier in life, whether it can be linked to their personal choices throughout life or not, (Yes I'm talking about vaccinations, though I'm not allowed to make the link as no long term studies have been undertaken to prove/disprove that last statement ) because let's face it. I don't have a choice. I don't get to choose whether I should pay for medical care needed by people who have made bad personal choices.

Let those that choose not to vaccinate have that choice.

After all the pro-vaccinators are taking their shots and are protecting themselves from the diseases non-vaccinators are spreading. (And if they're right, sureley they're protecting the non-vaccinated at the same time by stopping the infection getting to non-vaccinated people by forming a human firewall

So what's their beef with the non-vaccinators? Maybe they just can't handle the notion that some people are making a choice they don't agree with and because disease is the subject they're scared to death they themselves have got it wrong and have detrimentally effected their short/long term health and will suffer debilitating and quite often long, drawn out, painful deaths later in life?

Your health is your greatest asset.
Your health is your responsibility.
Do not waive the decision making to the state. The state has very little vested interest in you. You are probably the only one that rates you so highly.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Violater1

 

Somehow I just can’t wrap my head around the reasoning for this rant. By your same reasoning your next rant could be applied to those in the medical field having to wash their hands. Sorry no dice on this topic you are way off base and if you had your way it would put others’ lives in jeopardy.

Well try wrapping your head around this. Ever seen someone in a respirator who lost the ability to breathe on their own from effects of a flu shot? How about someone who was paralyzed and bed ridden losing all use of their legs for nearly 2 months from effects of a flu shot. I have. There is absolutely NO valid reason these shots have to be made with such toxic ingredients, it's assinine and DANGEROUS and at times FATAL. Show me the last time someone you knew was paralyzed for life from washing their hands and then maybe we can talk about your silly analogy.

Originally posted by NiteNGale2

Originally posted by Raxoxane
reply to post by NiteNGale2

 

But would wearing masks,and putting on disposable gloves between tending to different patients,not be as effective,or more? Im just thinking that any nurse or doc could be incubating Anything,like meningitis,chickenpox(i was 24 when i first got it),the common cold,mumps,other sicknesses.Thats just as risky around already sick people.

Yes. There is what is called the prodromal period when a person is ill but not showing any symptoms. That is a very real risk. People can infect others even if they feel and appear healthy. Nursing students have to provide inoculation records or medical records showing treatment for the major communicable diseases that aren't often seen nowadays because of successful vaccination programs. Blood tests can be used to show if antibodies are present for those whose records are lacking or are able to relate information about having a specific communicable illness. The flu strains vary and mutate year to year so there are years when the vaccine isn't as effective as one would hope.

Masks and gloves are a very important part of preventing infection. But, they are generally used when a patient has an infection that highly communicable or of a bacterial variety that is resistant to antibiotics. Masks, gloves, plastic gowns, foot covers and face shields may be used to protect the staff from the patients infection...

Gosh. I realized that blathering about precautions. And, that isn't the point.

The point is, you did mention illnesses that just aren't that common in the average healthy adult population that is the health-care field in the US. Possible but just not likely.

Flu is very, very likely though. I do have the right to say that I'm willing to accept the personal risk to my health by refusing the flu vaccine but I sure as heck don't have the right to force the consequences of my decision onto a patient.

edit on 13-1-2013 by NiteNGale2 because: wrong word!

You are wrong. I have provided a medical dictionary quotation as well as a link.
medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...
"Prodrome - A symptom or group of symptoms that appears shortly before an acute attack of illness. The term comes from a Greek word that means "running ahead of."
Here are more references to provide you a more through education.
www.mansfield.ohio-state.edu...
www2.raritanval.edu... ml
If you feel sick, Then Don't Go To Work!!
Again you are wrong. You usurp your authority as a healthcare worker by attempting to be a spokesperson for the rest in the health field by stating, “

Responsible and prudent nurses will willingly get vaccinated.

Do Not speak for me. If I want to provide the public with incompetent, erroneous or reckless disinformation, I'll be deficient enough to do it myself, thank-you.
Furthermore, are you aware of the CDC statement about Mercury
in vaccines?
Here is a quote from the CDC website, with the link.
"Thimerosal, a mercury-containing antibacterial compound, has been used as a preservative in vaccines… some states have enacted legislation banning the administration of vaccines containing mercury"
www.cdc.gov...
However you are correct about one thing.

Gosh. I realized that blathering about precautions.

Quit blathering and get your facts straight.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I was in an doctors office recently and there was a sign saying any employee that could not get a flu shot would be wearing a mask on their fsce to avoid contracting the flu from patients
it's a simple solution
would you object to that ? is that some form of abuse ?

Yes I will object to that.
Will cashiers at the grocery store, shopping malls and restaurants be forced to wear gloves and masks as well? Or worse, forced to get injections? I'd bet you that there are more flu infected people running around Walmart than healthcare workers in the hospital.

Trying to point out the inherent dangers and risks (both acute and chronic) of these vaccines to people taught to blindly follow and never ask the right questions is like trying to point out to the same that someones lucky rabbits foot may not be all that usefull in reality, the lemmings just keep clinging to them and heading right on over the cliff. Those that hold onto these susperstitions simply won't be swayed until they finally witness for themselves or someone they love a severe or catastrophic reaction to a vaccine. Then it's often too late (though there appears to be great strides in helping vaccine damaged children recover as long as the medical mafia and it's henchmen doesn't try to intervene)

I just don't understand how a parent who cares for a child, who would read every label on their childs baby food and would never allow their child to consume something that listed mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, Triton, etc. on the ingredient list, would seem to turn their brains off when the same toxic ingedients are directly INJECTED rather than orally consumed. It is this incredible naive blind trust for 'authority', NOT based in science at all, that is so dangerous and as chronic diseases continue to climb over time as shot after shot after shot is added to each childs 'must have' schedule, our heath care bills are going to escalate out of control.

It's amazing to me how people believe the vaccination scam still! Do your research people it's not that hard, what kind of upside down world am I living in when people think that putting a combination of poisons into your body is a good idea. This crap is getting nuts, I was at my grocery store the other day and they were offering 10% off your grocery's if you got the flu vaccination, WTF! I homeschool my kids now partly because they want to fill their little body's full of this crap, I mean honestly why does my kid have to get the chickenpox vaccination to go to school? Because there is a chance that there would be a shingles outbreak attached to the chickenpox they say....OMFG!

They call conspiracy theorist's "nut jobs" "wackos", yet most people parrot this crap about vaccinations without doing any homework of their own, to me that's crazy. As far as the flu vaccination and hospitals, I think this article puts a few holes in that argument.
link

This is my LAST year to get a flu shot.

I took one every year for nearly 20 years. Then bam! Last year about 24 hours after getting the flu shot, I was sick as a dog with the flu.

I had pneumonia in Sept and was in the hospital. So I decided to wait until I was sure I was well to get a flu shot. Thinking last year was a fluke. He___!! NO!!

Four days ago I got the flu shot. Then BAM! Next day a cough, following morning I felt so bad I actually briefly thought about ending it all. Today, I'd feel better if I'd been hit by a mac truck.

No more flu shots for this old lady!

Originally posted by jaws1975
It's amazing to me how people believe the vaccination scam still! Do your research people it's not that hard, what kind of upside down world am I living in when people think that putting a combination of poisons into your body is a good idea. This crap is getting nuts, I was at my grocery store the other day and they were offering 10% off your grocery's if you got the flu vaccination

Doesn't take long to research either. A few minutes researching on google and gems like this can be found: www.whale.to... Enough citations there to shut any pro-vax/poison person up.

In relation to OP: agree 100%. It's not right to force people to accept poison jabs.

reply to post by juleol


There is at most 52 micrograms of mercury in a can of tuna.

vaccines for hepititis B contain 12 micrograms of mercury.

TUNA CAUSES AUTISM!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

nope.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by juleol

 

There is at most 52 micrograms of mercury in a can of tuna.

vaccines for hepititis B contain 12 micrograms of mercury.

TUNA CAUSES AUTISM!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

nope.

I understand why you would think this and the MSM has been pushing this meme, but think about this, you don't INJECT your Tuna juice do you??? When something is injected it bypasses many of the routes of breakdown and elimination something taken orally goes through. IV injection and oral does studies often produce different results. Plus does your Tuna also carry an aluminum compound, how about some formaldehyde and a surfactant to enable it to cross the blood brain barrier should you choose to inject it? Not saying mercury in Tuna is good, it likely also contributes to a toxic overload, if eaten often, and if the body cannot properly handle it, but remember there is also a warning for pregnant mothers to not eat more than a can a week (or so). That should tell you something. Maybe they should have a warning label on the can as well : Not to be injected internally.

reply to post by Violater1


I agree and with the real numbers being seriously under rreported because much of this flu hit during the Christmas holiday, most people never went to the DR but stayed home and doctored themselves. Imagine if they did have the real numbers, they would have made it mandatory vaccines for every American even though the vaccines would not have helped in any way.

I think that some of the complications that generally came with the flu were being pretreated with heavy antibiotics which just may have had adverse reaction when mixed with the virus which could have in some instances caused the deaths. Renal failure being the number one I suspect.

Lets just see what they recombine from this years 2 strains... I would rather fight it with my own immunity than to have to rely on a vaccine next.

well the supreme court just ruled that in a dui stop the police cant take your blood forcefully as its protected by the 4th amendment so could not the inverse of this be true that instead of taking something out of your body being illegal would not putting something in against your wishes also be a violation? or are they too different to compare?

Originally posted by Ellie Sagan
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

My first thought was to agree with you, but upon further thought I changed my opinion. The thing is, that you may still get the flu even if you get the vaccination. So unless it is an absolute magic bullet, there really is no reason to require workers to be vaccinated. To me the best thing would be for the hospital to require everyone who starts getting sick to actually stay home! This won't happen though, because the hospital needs it's workers so they wouldn't really stay on top of making sure that policy would be followed.

Flu Vaccination isn't a magic bullet, no. Definitely not. This year's flu apparently pulled a fast one for being a strain different than was planned for when the vaccine making started last year for it, right? That's my understanding of the issue making this year so bad anyway. I never take a shot so I guess nothing much about this year changes for me.

I don't think it has to be 100% proven effective to be required as a common sense prophylactic measure, given it's the best one there is. If it's something to fight, then by all means, I'd love to see those within the medical profession work together and prove it's ineffective or better yet, prove there is something actively wrong with it.

However, I wanted to add another bit of my logic on this, if it might make a difference. If we allow health professionals to make independent decisions about what they believe they'll do or not do in protection for it's effectiveness? Where does that lead? What about the other shots or the series given before going overseas to some areas of the world? Is every individual qualified to determine what they can risk spreading by their own judgement of preventative measures?

(It's a big thing in this area because of the large number of medical centers/facilities potentially dealing with it)