"Entanglement" as a possible means of FTL communications? OR, why SETI hasn't found anything yet.

Yes, Iv'e read a lot of science reports as to why entanglement or "spooky" communication between two particles at speeds at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light, possibly instantaneous, cannot be used as a communications method but still wonder if we have exhausted the subject definitively given our limited knowlege of the phenomenon. In any case, just for fun, I like to imagine it is possible and might explain SETI's apparant lack of luck encountering any (well, almost none) intelligent communications of extra-solar civilizations. Any comments welcomed.....

reply to post by csgt428


But SETI did find something.

The Wow! signal was a strong narrowband radio signal detected by Jerry R. Ehman on August 15, 1977, while working on a SETI project at the Big Ear radio telescope of The Ohio State University then located at Ohio Wesleyan University's Perkins Observatory, Delaware, Ohio.[1] The signal bore expected hallmarks of potential non-terrestrial and non-Solar System origin. It lasted for the full 72-second duration that Big Ear observed it, but has not been detected again. The signal has been the subject of significant media attention.

Wiki link

I'm no expert but its apperently an alphanumeric code "6EQUJ5" no one knows what it means.
BTW they call it the "WOW Signal" because because in the margin of the page Ehman pened in the word
"WOW"

O.k.

Entanglement is indeed a way to comunicate faster than light... however you would have no choice but to send one entangled packet at light speed first before you could start to flip those bits.

So SETI hasn't detected anything because no entangled particle that we would know to look for is likely to have come this way.

Entangled communication however would be a great way to have live internet on a mars base or something such as that.

But communicating with ET through this method... very very unlikely,. unless they first brought the particles here of course.

Korg.

Exactly. They would first need to "be here", which, if the unfolding drama of leaked and declassified documents (majestic) can be taken seriously....They are! The speed of light problem may or may not apply if Lazar is telling the truth about warping space with a strong gravitational field allowing travel at a much faster rate between solar systems than conventional linear means. In fact, such an ability would negate the need to use entanglment as a means of communication at all I suppose.... plus of course, the difficulty or down right immpossibility of intercepting such particles on our part. Hmmm, well so much for that idea......Thanx for the input

Sci-Fi discusses such communication done through "booeys" in space. You cannot have random calling through entangled particles...you must sync the particles first, then bring the entangled particle twin to where you want to have communication.

Meaning, if you wanted to talk to someone a bajillion light years away in realtime, you would have to literally travel there once to set up the receiver so to speak.

And ya, Seti wouldn't find that. Such a device could be as small as a ipod just floating anywhere in space.

Ultimately, seti is seeking out just beginning their electronics age using frequencies we were using or could use..but we are even slowly outgrowing these signals...barely a 100 year span. So, I don't think there will be much success in seti overall.

I think all our hope in finding habited planets out there will come from advancing our telescopes and the like, getting sharper and sharper images of planets around stars. Maybe then we will spot something clearly indicating civilizations (albeit potentially from hundreds to millions of years ago given we are seeing only the past when looking at the stars and not what is now)

Aliens wouldnt communicate by radio but by telepathy.

Originally posted by csgt428
Exactly. They would first need to "be here", which, if the unfolding drama of leaked and declassified documents (majestic) can be taken seriously....They are! The speed of light problem may or may not apply if Lazar is telling the truth about warping space with a strong gravitational field allowing travel at a much faster rate between solar systems than conventional linear means. In fact, such an ability would negate the need to use entanglment as a means of communication at all I suppose.... plus of course, the difficulty or down right immpossibility of intercepting such particles on our part. Hmmm, well so much for that idea......Thanx for the input

Lazar is not telling the truth..he was debunked overall..however, what made his story compelling is that he took a lot of very solid theories and incorporated them into his story..so no..his truth or dishonesty does not make or break "space warping" or anything else..careful...put your faith into any one man and his word and your bound to have a disappointment. focus on what they say and the details..ignore the story in favor of the reality so to speak...and the reality is, a lot of what he mentions is indeed real.

There was a guy on ATS for a few days that went by the name of astroengineer. He didn't stay long, didn't like the limelight I guess..but he started his own little blog. He had some intriguing accounts at nasa working on the spirit and some hidden quantum communication going on there he uncovered. wasn't anything profoundly wild..no talks about martians or anything..just a program and attachment that was outside specs that lead to a bit of a rabbit hole

Originally posted by jemoeder
Aliens wouldnt communicate by radio but by telepathy.

What makes you say that?

A good sci-fi understanding of it (quantum relays for dummys)

Originally posted by jemoeder
Aliens wouldnt communicate by radio but by telepathy.

Assuming they have telepathic abilities is at least equally as presumptuous as assuming they use radio.

Originally posted by csgt428
Yes, Iv'e read a lot of science reports as to why entanglement or "spooky" communication between two particles at speeds at least 10,000 times faster than the speed of light, possibly instantaneous, cannot be used as a communications method ....

I snipped the rest so it could be replaced with this -

..................yet

Many years back it was said to be impossible to sail the ocean without falling off the edge....

When the electron was discovered it was said there never would be a need for it, let alone a means to exploit it...

When the computer was created they said there was never a need for more than 5 in the whole world.


My problem with scientific discovery comes in when something is said to be impossible... As if the theory prior to the discovery supported that nonsense...


A little over 100 years ago they said man would never fly...

Since then we have not only flown, but have been into space and went to the moon.. All within a realitively short period in time.

As Werner von Braun said...

reply to post by Korg Trinity

It might make more sense to physically carry the halves of entangled pairs aboard a slower-than-light spacecraft. You wouldn't need communications till you had someone to communicate with, after all.

Two science-fiction novels that have already made use of that possibility are Peter F. Hamilton's The Reality Dysfunction and Peter Watts' Blindsight. Watts actually gives some thought (not much) to the practical issues involved.

I can't tell you anything about FTL communications. But I can tell you that SETI is pantomime theater for idiots. They're not seriously looking; and, if they were, they're looking in the wrong way in the wrong places. I hope ET are fans of 1950s movies, because that's the only way SETI will find anything....

Sorry to burst all your bubbles of fantasy but Einstein's Relativity Theory does not allow faster than light signalling, whilst a recent remarkable experiment by a group of Austrian physicists:
phys.org...
has proved that quantum entanglement cannot have a causal explanation in terms of signals travelling slower than light. Whether a test photon was observed as a particle or as a wave was made to depend on how another photon entangled with it was observed. Despite the two photons being separated by a distance that could not have been traversed in time by a slower-than-light signal before the second photon was observed after the first one was observed as either a particle or a wave, it was found that the second photon was observed as a particle whenever the first one was recorded as a particle and as a wave whenever the first one was observed as one.

Entanglement is a QUANTUM phenomenon. Entangled states do not communicate in a causal way (that's way Einstein had a serious problem with it). One cannot understand their entanglement in terms of any transmission of information across space-time. Experiments now rule out a transmission speed less than the speed of light, whilst a speed greater than this is forbidden because it does not lead to the same order for all inertial observers of which measurement affected which measurement on the two entangled objects.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Sci-Fi discusses such communication done through "booeys" in space. You cannot have random calling through entangled particles...you must sync the particles first, then bring the entangled particle twin to where you want to have communication.

Meaning, if you wanted to talk to someone a bajillion light years away in realtime, you would have to literally travel there once to set up the receiver so to speak.

And ya, Seti wouldn't find that. Such a device could be as small as a ipod just floating anywhere in space.

Ultimately, seti is seeking out just beginning their electronics age using frequencies we were using or could use..but we are even slowly outgrowing these signals...barely a 100 year span. So, I don't think there will be much success in seti overall.

I think all our hope in finding habited planets out there will come from advancing our telescopes and the like, getting sharper and sharper images of planets around stars. Maybe then we will spot something clearly indicating civilizations (albeit potentially from hundreds to millions of years ago given we are seeing only the past when looking at the stars and not what is now)

I need to figure out how to quote what I want.... not the whole thing. Not used to this site....

Yes, you would need to get the entangled particle to wherever you wanted to communicate from and then somehow....(this is the part they don't know how to do yet and may never)..... cause it to "flip" at your command in order to send a coherent message. This would supposedly violate the laws of quantum mechanics as we know them......now ....If I am understanding correctly the explanations as to why it will never work?

reply to post by csgt428


It is far more likely that using basic Radio in some form of Sub-Space Carrier Wave would be far easier to accomplish. It would not be easy at all but easier than say fully understanding the UFT or Unified Field Theory.

The UFT would have to be understood to some point for the creation or penetration of Space/Time to access Sub-Space or Space/Times connection to One Dimensionality. But to be able to use Entanglement would mean also a complete understanding of Quantum Mechanics which is a TALL ORDER. LOL!

Split Infinity

I've been investigating this communication. It doesn't necessarily have to be extraterrestrial. I find everything I ask is explainable but way above my head. Upon investigation I also find I am steered to go to certain sites on the net to learn about it. Weird. This communication is between different people here on earth, some with great knowledge. I think that the third eye people are using collective consciousness to access answers. This is a threat to governments.

reply to post by Xcathdra


So true, so true. When I first heard about entanglement I was overjoyed at the thought. It was depressing to me to think that communicating and traveling in the universe had the speed of light limitations......I wanted to BE out there exploring and it seemed like a crack in the armour so to speak.

We have only begun our journey and the arrogance of many "scientists" and others who pupport to be part of that journey of discovery is appalling.

reply to post by csgt428


The Speed of Light Limitation you speak of only pertains to travel through normal Space/Time. In order to get around this some out of town visitors have found a way to travel using a form of Gravitic Drive.

What this drive does is allow the traveler and craft to access a state of One Dimensionality which is the same thing as what a large amount of Matter such as a celestial body does...Fold Space.

All points of position and Time in our Universe are the same point in a One Dimensional State. This is so because even though our Space/Time and all that is in it exists in a minimum 10 or 11 Dimensional state...all of these states are partially governed by each other dimensional state.

So if one has the tech. to generate a massive cascade of Energy by using a Matter/Antimatter reaction which accesses our Divergent Universal States connection to all other Divergent Universal States then an enormous amount of Energy Cascade will represent the Mass that will Fold Space.

Thus when Folding Space/Time you are not using a form of Propulsion nor are you traveling in normal Space/Time...you simply are accessing a navigated point of position in the Universe and then causing all points of position to be the same point One Dimensionaly. Thus you travel without moving.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Sounds like it might be a bit difficult to navigate to a desired destination if all points become one?

I am open to the idea of extra dimensions though...... and suspect that gravity is a (?) which connects them all.