I'm curious, what would happen without law?

290 million people killed in the past hundred years by Government. Is it really keeping things in order or is it simply an illusion. Why can't humanity be free? Why is the common man not capable of taking justice into his own hands if need be? And why have we always felt the need to to be ruled over by Kings and Queens when, in the long run, they end up historically committing just as much, if not more, vicious and barbaric crime than the people themselves are capable of on their own?

I'm sincerely curious, enlighten me.

reply to post by Vidpci


Two words;

Vigilantism and mob-ocracy.

If people have others to lead them (government) then they always have someone to blame other than themselves. Unfortunately, to try and break free of government rule now, we would have to remake the world. Even tribes had elders or some form of council that made laws and handed down punishment. If we could all dish out our own justice, then we have a blind world, an eye for an eye.

reply to post by Vidpci


Well, consider the US up until WW 1. There weren't nearly as many laws. And there wasn't nearly as much enforcement. Yet, somehow, we lived through it.

How did people cope in, say, 1870, when there might be one law enforcer in the county, maybe? There were definitely fewer people and less population density. But somehow, we lived through that, too. Not saying all law is bad. Maybe it's gone nuts.

On a tangent, there was Davy Crockett, in 1830, with that entire "I'll pitch in for a veteran but I'm not allocating tax money for a memorial" speech:

"Mr. Speaker, I have as much respect for the memory of the deceased, and as much sympathy for the sufferings of the living, as any man in this House. But we must not permit our respect for the dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as much of our own money as we please in charity; but as members of Congress we have no right to so appropriate a dollar of the public money. Some eloquent appeals have been made to us upon the ground that it is a debt due the deceased. Mr. Speaker, the deceased lived long after the close of the war; he was in office to the day of his death, and I have never heard that the government was in arrears to him. Every man in this House knows it is not a debt. We cannot, without the grossest corruption, appropriate this money as the payment of a debt. We have not the semblance of authority to appropriate it as a charity. Mr. Speaker, I have said we have the right to give as much money of our own as we please. I am the poorest man on this floor. I cannot vote for this bill, but I will give one week's pay to the object, and if every member of Congress will do the same, it will amount to more than the bills asks." - Congressman David Crockett of Tennessee

I wish we could return to this. It'll never happen in this government, though.

I like having laws purely for the fact that many people can't handle themselves or dish out justice when needed.

Most would struggle in a lawless society, so i like the fact that there are organizations looking after that side of things.

Do they always do the job right? Of course not, whether it's the government, police or the military, sometimes things don't go right, but i think a lot more would be killed without it.

CX.

reply to post by ADVISOR


that happens now, but the vigilantes have badges and fed backing, and the mobs have false media and propaganda.

reply to post by Vidpci


If there was no law, people would eventually make rules, which would be enforced by a selected group of them and then another selected group would be charged with making more rules and maintaining the old ones as well as providing civil services for which each person would pay his fair share....hence government

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Vidpci

 

If there was no law, people would eventually make rules, which would be enforced by a selected group of them and then another selected group would be charged with making more rules and maintaining the old ones as well as providing civil services for which each person would pay his fair share....hence government

So make a rule to not make rules?

Places like Somalia is what happens.

Originally posted by LeLeu
Places like Somalia is what happens.

Why didn't it happen here? Not saying it was all peaches and cream, either, just seemed to come out a bit differently. Same in, say, Australia.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


Touche

reply to post by Bedlam


Somalia and other places stem from a long time of corruption, war, extreme poverty ect.
But just because we come from more stable countries, it does'nt mean that we're immune. New Orleans very quickly turned to # with killings and rapes. Behind all of the tragedy there was something very interesting going on at a social level.

reply to post by Vidpci


i think freedom beats law when the law is corrupt. any body that may be on the fence, this guy knows what he is talking about

Something to consider is that other than traffic duty law enforcement is largely an investigative body who does NOT prevent crime. For the most part they show up after and make arrests and do investigations which is great but if they weren't there would it really make any difference in the way we police ourselves?

I think only the slightly more honest people are deterred by the massive police presence but those working outside the law don't give a hoot so again, who really protects us?

Most laws appear to me to be statutes designed to promote an environment conducive to making money and making people feel that they are safe. I think the majority of time laws and police do not protect people, people protect people.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


I see we are on the same page.

Good to know.

Two words:

Christiania, Denmark

Christiania, also known as Freetown Christiania (Danish: Fristaden Christiania) is a self-proclaimed autonomous neighbourhood of about 850 residents, covering 34 hectares (84 acres) in the borough of Christianshavn in the Danish capital Copenhagen. Civic authorities in Copenhagen regard Christiania as a large commune, but the area has a unique status in that it is regulated by a special law, the Christiania Law of 1989 which transfers parts of the supervision of the area from the municipality of Copenhagen to the state. It was closed by residents in April 2011, whilst discussions continued with the Danish government as to its future, but is now open again.[1] Christiania has been a source of controversy since its creation in a squatted military area in 1971. Its cannabis trade was tolerated by authorities until 2004. Since then, measures for normalising the legal status of the community have led to conflicts, and negotiations are ongoing. Among many Christiania residents, the community is known as staden ('the town'), short for fristaden ('the freetown').

Christania is by definition an Anarchistic society. There is no government, no law enforcement and no prisons (except for when the external Danish Government decides to intervene). Yet the people inside Christiania live a safe and happy life. Now there are guide lines they live by (actually called Common Law, but its enforced by the society and the monopoly on violence is not given to one group) :
No hard drugs
No violence
No weapons
No cars
No biker colours (or gang)
No bullet proof vests
No sale of fireworks
No use of explosives
No stolen goods

Mostly if you violate them, you will get kicked out of Christania by the society and in severe cases they will contain them and hand them over to the Danish police (In cases of Murder, Extreme theft, Rape etc) .

However, there is relatively low crime rates in Christania, and although its not a place you'd want to take your kids, then its certainly safe enough to.

Hence Anarchy does not in anyway shape and or form mean Chaos.
I despise that Anarchy has become Chaos, they have nothing to do with each other.

But yeah, just my 2 cents

Namaste.

Originally posted by Vidpci
290 million people killed in the past hundred years by Government. Is it really keeping things in order or is it simply an illusion. Why can't humanity be free? Why is the common man not capable of taking justice into his own hands if need be? And why have we always felt the need to to be ruled over by Kings and Queens when, in the long run, they end up historically committing just as much, if not more, vicious and barbaric crime than the people themselves are capable of on their own?

I'm sincerely curious, enlighten me.

There is a simple answer. Why are 7 billion souls on Earth today?

From the Book of Enoch:

1.1 These are the words of the blessing of Enoch; according to which he
blessed the chosen and righteous who must be present on the day of
distress, which is appointed, for the removal of all the wicked and impious.

Because we have been baptized into the water for one purpose. The righteous must be on Earth with the Wicked on the "Day of Distress." We are the witnesses. The next question is this: How many of the 7 billion souls are considered righteous? The answer is most of us. We find the answer to this clearly in the New Testament when Jesus identifies the wicked. They are locked in darkness and can be identified by three groups. 1) Builders (Masons) who reject the Chief Cornerstone (Giving / Christ). 2) Chief Priests / Experts in the Law. 3) Money Changers (Bankers).

From here, we find the next clue. You are asking about the law and why there is a need for it.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Simple logic and reason comes into play here. Why does faith in Christ allow for the law to be abolished? The answer comes from reflecting on the wicked mentioned above. What is the chief desire of those who steal from God? Selfishness and Pride. The mark of any "Beast" in the animal kingdom is selfishness. The mark mentioned in Revelation 13 is easily spotted if you know the right answer.

Revelation 13

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[e-or of mankind] That number is 666.

Carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons. It is the "Fruit of our knowledge" and the mark of mankind. Technology is that fruit. Carbon is the mark of the commerce system of trade for Babylon. Selfishness is the mark of the three groups controlling the Carbon.

Did God leave a clue?

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

---How many identifiers are mentioned when he says, "Mark This?" 18. 6+6+6.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9 But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

Who are the Wicked and why is baptism (immersion into the water of life) necessary?

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

The Pharisees and Saddusees are the "Leaders / Giants" locked in darkness. They will be baptized by fire. Those who seek the water (Love for others) will put out the fire with that love. Love fulfills the law with faith. Love keeps us from being a thief and overcomes the animal (beast) inside.

Where there is love, what law can be broken? It was our guardian until faith came.

reply to post by WiseThinker


I wouldn´t say Christitania is a good example, the community is very small there and contains basicly one city block and its old military barack, even in such a small community they do have somekind of "common" laws and rules... so to me it tells that even in such a small community you cannot operate without rules.

Well id be driving a better car

Originally posted by LeLeu
Places like Somalia is what happens.

Spot on mate.
With no law the people with morals will be over run by those who DGAF .