Are you afraid of HELL yet? Just wait...

I know what you're thinking...

Oh no, not another Hell thread!! :bnghd:

Just wait...

IF you've read my threads you know I believe the idea of "hell" to be a means of control through the use of our natural FEAR of the unknown. Religions all across the world use Manipulation of the mind to induce fear from an early age, which keeps US separated and submissive to their God(s) and their will.

Now many people think I only wage my war against fear on the Christian world, so this thread has nothing to do with "the bible" but I will use it briefly to lead up to what im about to present you.

Hell is mentioned in a grand total of 54 passages in the bible, and in each instance what is written about it is extremely vague... but there is a book that gives a very detailed description of what is said to be in Hell...

I believe this book was likely excluded from the bible because it even scared the priests to death!

IF you think Christians Fear hell... Imagine how the Gnostics felt...

While (if?) you read this I want you to keep in mind that fear is your worst enemy...

And perhaps one might thank God that this book was not included in your bible...

A Vision of Heaven, and a Vision of Hell

The Apocalypse of Peter: The Akhmim Fragment

17 And the dwellers in that place were clad with the raiment of shining angels, and their raiment was like unto their land.

18 And angels ran round about them there. 19 And the glory of them that dwelt there was all equal, and with one voice they praised the Lord God, rejoicing in that place.

20 The Lord saith unto us: This is the place of your leaders (or, high priests), the righteous men.

21 And I saw also another place over against that one, very squalid; and it was a place of punishment, and they that were punished and the angels that punished them had their raiment dark, according to the air of the place. 22 And some there were there hanging by their tongues; and these were they that blasphemed the way of righteousness, and under them was laid fire flaming and tormenting them.

23 And there was a great lake full of flaming mire, wherein were certain men that turned away from righteousness; and angels, tormentors, were set over them.

24 And there were also others, women, hanged by their hair above that mire which boiled up; and these were they that adorned themselves for adultery.

And the men that were joined with them in the defilement of adultery were hanging by their feet, and had their heads hidden in the mire, and said: We believed not that we should come unto this place.

25 And I saw the murderers and them that were consenting to them cast into a strait place full of evil, creeping things, and smitten by those beasts, and so turning themselves about in that torment. And upon them were set worms like clouds of darkness. And the souls of them that were murdered stood and looked upon the torment of those murderers and said: O God, righteous is thy judgement.

26 And hard by that place I saw another strait place wherein the discharge and the stench of them that were in torment ran down, and there was as it were a lake there. And there sat women up to their necks in that liquor, and over against them many children which were born out of due time sat crying: and from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes: and these were they that conceived out of wedlock (?) and caused abortion.

27 And other men and women were being burned up to their middle and cast down in a dark place and scourged by evil spirits, and having their entrails devoured by worms that rested not. And these were they that had persecuted the righteous and delivered them up.

28 And near to them again were women and men gnawing their lips and in torment, and having iron heated in the fire set against their eyes. And these were they that did blaspheme and speak evil of the way of righteousness.

29 And over against these were yet others, men and women, gnawing their tongues and having flaming fire in their mouths. And these were the false witnesses.

30 And in another place were gravel-stones sharper than swords or any spit, heated with fire, and men and women clad in filthy rags rolled upon them in torment. [This is suggested by the LXX of two passages in Job: xli. 30, his bed is of sharp spits; viii. 17, on an heap of stones doth he rest, and shall live in the midst of gravel-stones.] And these were they that were rich and trusted in their riches, and had no pity upon orphans and widows but neglected the commandments of God.

31 And in another great lake full of foul matter (pus) and blood and boiling mire stood men and women up to their knees And these were they that lent money and demanded usury upon usury.

32 And other men and women being cast down from a great rock (precipice) fell (came) to the bottom, and again were driven by them that were set over them, to go up upon the rock, and thence were cast down to the bottom and had no rest from this torment. And these were they that did defile their bodies behaving as women: and the women that were with them were they that lay with one another as a man with a woman.

33 And beside that rock was a place full of much fire, and there stood men which with their own hands had made images for themselves instead of God, [And beside them other men and women] having rods of fire and smiting one another and never resting from this manner of torment....

34 And yet others near unto them, men and women, burning and turning themselves about and roasted as in a pan. And these were they that forsook the way of God.

Suddenly the lake of Fire isn't looking so bad...

The author of this book forgot one thing though.... Torture of the flesh requires a physical body...

That which is born of flesh is flesh... That which is born of spirit is spirit... ~JC

reply to post by Akragon

Suddenly the lake of Fire isn't looking so bad...

The author of this book forgot one thing though.... Torture of the flesh requires a physical body...

That which is born of flesh is flesh... That which is born of spirit is spirit... ~JC

You are quoting John 3. Jesus was telling Nicodemus about Baptism into the water of life. Baptism is the immersion into a body. What will be left of Earth after it is fully corrupted? Who will be left in the empty tomb when the true Rock (Church) is rolled away? Remember, Jesus said, "You must be born again." Some escape to the Spirit body and some remain. Who remains?

Matthew 3

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with[c] the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

How will the body be left in the fire?

Revelation 9

4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

What is the Seal of God and how does this differ from the Mark of the Beast (Animal in Humans)? The mark of the beast is Selfishness and is the mark of mankind (Carbon - 6 protons, 6 electrons, 6 neutrons). The mark of mankind is also the mark of our fruit, which drives our selfishness and commerce system. How do I know selfishness is the central mark of the beast instead of the Seal of approval from God?

Mark This!!!!

2 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents (6), ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control (6), brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God (6)— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6+6+6 is 18. There are 18 markers of selfishness here. Mark This!

What does the Bible say about the body seeking death and the Earth on Fire? It's tied to the baptism of water that puts out fire. There are some that will choose fire. Either way, we are all baptized. Water puts out fire.

Isaiah 26

19 But your dead will live, Lord;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.
20 Go, my people, enter your rooms
and shut the doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until his wrath has passed by.
21 See, the Lord is coming out of his dwelling
to punish the people of the earth for their sins.
The earth will disclose the blood shed on it;
the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

reply to post by Akragon


I agree with you on viewing Hell as Fear

As long as we live our life good, valuing others, be kind to others, etc.
Also dare to apologize to people we hurt.
There would be less fear or regret when we face 'death'.

But if we live our life badly, hurting people, murdering people, etc
There would be fear and regret in heart when we face 'death'
And all of these will be tormenting us in the 'afterlife'

The author of this book forgot one thing though.... Torture of the flesh requires a physical body...

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus seemed to think the soul and body could be in hell together. Of course, he uses the word destroy in this verse, which says to me, death. But many Christians take that to mean eternal destruction and torment.

Meh, it's all about perspective, I guess.

Originally posted by Klassified

The author of this book forgot one thing though.... Torture of the flesh requires a physical body...

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus seemed to think the soul and body could be in hell together. Of course, he uses the word destroy in this verse, which says to me, death. But many Christians take that to mean eternal destruction and torment.

Meh, it's all about perspective, I guess.

Its very much about perspective... Belief is very powerful!

I've considered the possibility that the soul can remain Trapped in the body after death... And I do believe that realisation of the spirit is important in this life as well...

That is actually the verse that caused me to think on this matter... Destroy the body and soul in Gehenna... which was an actual place just outside the walls of Jerusalem. To me this sounds just like what Enochwasright is saying... For whatever reason some souls can not escape the body at death...

Originally posted by Klassified

The author of this book forgot one thing though.... Torture of the flesh requires a physical body...

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus seemed to think the soul and body could be in hell together. Of course, he uses the word destroy in this verse, which says to me, death. But many Christians take that to mean eternal destruction and torment.

Meh, it's all about perspective, I guess.

What is being described is a hell specifically designed/devised individually to suit every soul that subscribes to it; and believe it or not you are the orchestrater of such a place; so if you want to face off an army of Giant Sta-Puff marshmallow Men you will; I guarantee it. That is the humor in the horror; you believe it, you manifest it after you've died dead gone done did it. Think happy thoughts; no man eating lions, lava flows, perpetual pecking out the liver by vultures every 4:00PM EST. Best case senario? All of the Pawn Shop Owners Ever get to have their own planet yet no wares available to chisel over; no customers in distress- So what are they to do??

reply to post by Klassified


Matthew 10:28

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation.
This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

When living in this world (or any other worlds, if they do exist), we borrow body and soul from this world. The less we value our body and soul, the easier it is for our spirit to escape from the prison

Interesting thoughts from all three of you. I like different angles and takes on topics such as this.

For whatever reason some souls can not escape the body at death...

Now there's a scary thought. Sounds like a vintage horror movie where the vampire gets chained in a coffin for a hundred years alone with his own thoughts to keep him company. ie. Barnabas Collins.

What is being described is a hell specifically designed/devised individually to suit every soul that subscribes to it; and believe it or not you are the orchestrater of such a place

There's gonna be some really unhappy people when they figure that one out then.
I'm an atheist/agnostic, wonder where that leaves me? Guess I better get to creating my after life.

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation. This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

Now there's an interesting take. Sounds a bit like destroying the ego, doesn't it?

Originally posted by dodol
reply to post by Klassified

 

Matthew 10:28

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation.
This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

When living in this world (or any other worlds, if they do exist), we borrow body and soul from this world. The less we value our body and soul, the easier it is for our spirit to escape from the prison

edit on 10-1-2013 by dodol because: Not clear enough

Spirit liberation? You cannot destroy your soul because you do not own it; yes, you are an "individual" (meaning having separate experience) yet you do not own it to kill it. It belongs to the creator of it and that is not you. Your body was a gift for you to experience life-you decided which body and the parents of to enter into this 3D. You do not remember any of your contracts prior to birth (and your test was to discover this). It takes a supermind to figure out the purpose of being in this life you lead and hopefully can remember the lessons you are supposed to rectify/carry out and see to a completion. Your continual Reincarnation must stop for this wheel of stuck ugliness must seize.

reply to post by Klassified

Now there's a scary thought. Sounds like a vintage horror movie where the vampire gets chained in a coffin for a hundred years alone with his own thoughts to keep him company. ie. Barnabas Collins.

More thoughts on that verse...

Imagine being trapped in your body, having no control over it because it has ceased to function... Yet you're still conscious... Theres nothing but darkess because you can't open your eyes, you can't breath because you don't realise its not necessary as a spirit... Perhaps you were not such a pleasant person in life so theres no one to care for your body and give it a proper burial, so your body is tossed into Gehenna where they disposed of garbage and the bodies of the dead by burning them. The entire time this happens you're conscious within the confines of your own carcass.

You believe this is the end, and you give up hope... Thus, this lack of hope and belief in your own death destroys your own soul... In Gehenna

reply to post by vethumanbeing


If you notice my post, the way I described 'destroying' is a non-literal.

The 'destroying' in that context is: to cut ties to body and soul

Originally posted by dodol
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

If you notice my post, the way I described 'destroying' is a non-literal.

The 'destroying' in that context is: to cut ties to body and soul

Literal non-lirical better. A Bach fugue. I wonder where how the cut happens. Someone must know oh I don't think so as they would be in pergatory or the heaven of the 70 virgins place and able to tell us. The only destruction going on is of the flesh I guess oops (not so formaldihyde embalming fluids=no dignity).

To destroy the body or is happenning now it destroys itself through dis-ease is to release the grander soul?
Please expand?

Originally posted by dodol
reply to post by Klassified

 

Matthew 10:28

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation.
This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

When living in this world (or any other worlds, if they do exist), we borrow body and soul from this world. The less we value our body and soul, the easier it is for our spirit to escape from the prison

edit on 10-1-2013 by dodol because: Not clear enough

You should include your quote so as not to have to reply to an ambiguous answer.
We borrow the body, not the soul. The less we value the body the better off one is as it is a vehicle for your individualized soul to reside in. The body is a prison yes but you agreed to occupy it for a certain length of time and so are responsible for its upkeep and should take care of it as in this is the temple in which you reside.
Again you do not have ownership of your soul, you only have the individualization of it; as in you put your life experiences to it, Its yours but only as individualized. It belongs to your creator ultimately. Every thought every deed every everything you are is imprinted upon this peice of electromagnetic energy.

Originally posted by Klassified
Interesting thoughts from all three of you. I like different angles and takes on topics such as this.

For whatever reason some souls can not escape the body at death...

Now there's a scary thought.

Sounds like a vintage horror movie where the vampire gets chained in a coffin for a hundred years alone with his own thoughts to keep him company. ie. Barnabas Collins.

What is being described is a hell specifically designed/devised individually to suit every soul that subscribes to it; and believe it or not you are the orchestrater of such a place

There's gonna be some really unhappy people when they figure that one out then.

I'm an atheist/agnostic, wonder where that leaves me? Guess I better get to creating my after life.

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation. This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

Now there's an interesting take. Sounds a bit like destroying the ego, doesn't it?

edit on 1/10/2013 by Klassified because: (no reason given)

You have no idea how popular culture mocks us. Barnabas Collins, The Munsters, The Addams Family; the good guys Walt Disney; 33rd degree Freemason, the bad guys, I'd rather not say. Destruction of ego? it happens everyday you turn on CNN. I still have a hard time understanding the truth of Hollywood making pictures of humans acting out that we pay money to be entertained by our idiotic antics. Kind of like we humans are the Zoo animals being paid for and fed to be clowns/jesters for OURSELVES? or OTHERS. The Snake eating its tail. Guess who pays the bill in the end- we do at 12.00 dollars a ticket to look into our own mirror/ widescreen dolby sound.

Walt was aware of his role; you cannot say Bambi was anything but a FEAR movie directed to children-many of his animations were, but the intent was to warn the post war children of impending chaos to come. A very smart and very aware individual leaving his (please listen to what I am trying to do in the footprint of 'The Wizard of OZ'
behold you are in danger humankind).

reply to post by Akragon



There is no place worse than this.
This is hell. Where else are animals and people set ablaze,
babies killed and mothers made to watch?

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Akragon

 

There is no place worse than this.
This is hell. Where else are animals and people set ablaze,
babies killed and mothers made to watch?

This is only because you can watch it real time. You should have seen the Spanish Inquistion; the Holocaust;
Witnessed the detonation of 'Fat Boy'; At Los Alamos NM Robert Oppenheimer "Behold, Now I become the Destoyer of Worlds"). Priceless.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by dodol
reply to post by Klassified

 

Matthew 10:28

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation.
This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

When living in this world (or any other worlds, if they do exist), we borrow body and soul from this world. The less we value our body and soul, the easier it is for our spirit to escape from the prison

edit on 10-1-2013 by dodol because: Not clear enough

You should include your quote so as not to have to reply to an ambiguous answer.
We borrow the body, not the soul. The less we value the body the better off one is as it is a vehicle for your individualized soul to reside in. The body is a prison yes but you agreed to occupy it for a certain length of time and so are responsible for its upkeep and should take care of it as in this is the temple in which you reside.
Again you do not have ownership of your soul, you only have the individualization of it; as in you put your life experiences to it, Its yours but only as individualized. It belongs to your creator ultimately. Every thought every deed every everything you are is imprinted upon this peice of electromagnetic energy.

To me, soul is where things like fear, faith, beliefs, comes from. Because the soul tends to make us believe that 'the creator' give us the soul.

In other words, 'the creator' is just a product created by our souls in form of faith, fear, and belief.

We believe 'the creator' exist. (beliefs)
We fear 'the creator' will punish us if we don't pay tithes. (fear)
Only by believing in 'the creator', we can be saved (faith)

If anyone can easily terminate 'the creator', they would be one step closer to their spirit liberation.

That's why IMHO, it's necessary to cut ties to soul as well

Originally posted by dodol

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by dodol
reply to post by Klassified

 

Matthew 10:28

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation.
This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

When living in this world (or any other worlds, if they do exist), we borrow body and soul from this world. The less we value our body and soul, the easier it is for our spirit to escape from the prison

edit on 10-1-2013 by dodol because: Not clear enough

To me, soul is where things like fear, faith, beliefs, comes from. Because the soul tends to make us believe that 'the creator' give us the soul.

In other words, 'the creator' is just a product created by our souls in form of faith, fear, and belief.

We believe 'the creator' exist. (beliefs)
We 'fear' the creator will punish us if we don't pay tithes. (fear)
Only by believing in 'the creator', we can be saved (faith)

If anyone can easily terminate 'the creator', they would be one step closer to their spirit liberation.

That's why IMHO, it's necessary to cut ties to soul as well

No No No. If you can explain why and how you exist in your body now I'm listening. It is not a matter of belief in a creator. Its simply a fact, and if you created yourself explain how you accomplished it, because Science would like to know and/or you could become a mutigazillionaire knowing that truth. You might ask your higher self how to disconnect from that which you fear, it will probably tell you something like this "What ?! You Want To Cut Your Own Throat?". It is your own human experience gives you the thought of Fear or whatever risides in that mind of yours. You have to own it and do not blame anyone or anything other than yourself for it you were given a Gift called life and you disregard the MaJick of it.

edit on 10-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by dodol

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by dodol
reply to post by Klassified

 

Matthew 10:28

Sounds to me, like spirit liberation.
This is like a hint to tell us that no matter where we are, even if the place is hell, we all can escape from body and soul, by 'destroying' it.

When living in this world (or any other worlds, if they do exist), we borrow body and soul from this world. The less we value our body and soul, the easier it is for our spirit to escape from the prison

edit on 10-1-2013 by dodol because: Not clear enough

To me, soul is where things like fear, faith, beliefs, comes from. Because the soul tends to make us believe that 'the creator' give us the soul.

In other words, 'the creator' is just a product created by our souls in form of faith, fear, and belief.

We believe 'the creator' exist. (beliefs)
We 'fear' the creator will punish us if we don't pay tithes. (fear)
Only by believing in 'the creator', we can be saved (faith)

If anyone can easily terminate 'the creator', they would be one step closer to their spirit liberation.

That's why IMHO, it's necessary to cut ties to soul as well

No No No. If you can explain why and how you exist in your body now I'm listening. It is not a matter of belief in a creator. Its simply a fact, and if you created yourself explain how you accomplished it, because Science would like to know and/or you could become a mutigazillionaire knowing that truth. You might ask your higher self how to disconnect from that which you fear, it will probably tell you something like this "What ?! You Want To Cut Your Own Throat?". It is your own human experience gives you the thought of Fear or whatever risides in that mind of yours. You have to own it and do not blame anyone or anything other than yourself for it you were given a Gift called life and you disregard the MaJick of it.

edit on 10-1-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

I can't explain it, because I dunno.
So for the origin of universe and life, it is wiser for me to leave it to science and others to figure out.
Because maybe only in afterlife, we all will know and learn the answers to all Whys that are still left unanswered

So it is best for me to live my current life in the right way as best as I could.

And I don't blame anyone about my life. And I don't disregard Life.
Life is about experiencing and learning how to live our life the right way

But to me. this life is just another reality that I voluntarily to participate in. No creator

edit on 11-1-2013 by dodol because: (no reason given)

No No No. If you can explain why and how you exist in your body now I'm listening. It is not a matter of belief in a creator. Its simply a fact, and if you created yourself explain how you accomplished it, because Science would like to know and/or you could become a mutigazillionaire knowing that truth. You might ask your higher self how to disconnect from that which you fear, it will probably tell you something like this "What ?! You Want To Cut Your Own Throat?". It is your own human experience gives you the thought of Fear or whatever risides in that mind of yours. You have to own it and do not blame anyone or anything other than yourself for it you were given a Gift called life and you disregard the MaJick of it.




I can't explain it, because I dunno.
So for the origin of universe and life, it is wiser for me to leave it to science and others to figure out.
Because maybe only in afterlife, we all will know and learn the answers to all Whys that are still left unanswered
So it is best for me to live my current life in the right way as best as I could.

And I don't blame anyone about my life. And I don't disregard Life.
Life is about experiencing and learning how to live our life the right way

But to me. this life is just another reality that I voluntarily to participate in. No creator


Oh you think you can get off that easily. No blame certainly not yourself. What other reality other than this one do you participate in? The one in which there actually is a Creator (meaning the other one) Why wiser to leave anything to anything other than yourself? No whys at all everything is standing right before you in your mirror; what is the problem with taking a really good look? I am going to do it You are a Coward.