Vitamin C - What You Don't Know May Kill You AND Why The USDA is Wrong

reply to post by muzzleflash
Now, while supplements may be unnecessary in many cases, it has been proven without a doubt that Vitamin C, administered in its most effective method, boosts the immune system to the point where a human body is able to fight off diseases, many of them man made maladies.

You can choose to ignore or believe it but let me tell you this, my wife has been taking Liposomal Vitamin C and ever since she took it, her monthly stomach cramps have absolutely disappeared. She had been experiencing stomach pains ever since she was a teenager. Since I have been taking it, I have not had a cold or upper respiratory ailment and I usually get seasonal allergies or colds.

Coincidence? Placebo effect? Maybe or maybe not. It doesn't matter. People believe what they want to believe anyway.

I got proof and that is all that matters to me.

reply to post by muzzleflash
BTW, I changed my mind. I am NOT going to tell you what the video says. Take some time away from arguing with folks on here and watch the video. Come back and maybe we can discourse some more.

reply to post by Jaellma


I said clearly " if you are sick try it, its pretty safe", and " I agree 100% on use as medicine", paraphrased.

I only disagree on required amounts for healthy people, like me.

You are totally misreading the gist of my posts.

reply to post by muzzleflash
And what about my wife, who is healthy but had experienced monthly menstrual cramps for years up until she ingested liquid Lipo C?

Had she been sick all these years???

My point is Lipid C/intravenous Vit C has benefits for both seemingly healthy and sick people.

If we can agree on this I think a more salient question to ask would be "what exactly is healthy?" If we can agree on some yet to be-defined range or level, this debate may have bigger wheels to run on.

reply to post by muzzleflash


While I think it's good you challenge any claims on this thread (and we should, regardless of whether the claim is certified or not), you need to practice what you preach and provide counter facts as I know I would be interested to see the other (scientific) side of the coin (so to speak).

Too much is beyond body absorbtion capacity.
After that its waste.

True for most things that are ingested and taken into the body however this is not entirely true. Athletes, especially body builders require higher doses of Vitamin C (3 times at least) compared to the average person and this seems reasonable when they also start to develop higher requirements of protein and carbohydrates (as well as other supplements provided by food and powders, pills etc).

I personally can vouch for such a large intake as I have experience of body building and power lifting where I found I needed larger doses of almost everything to have an effect (and I believe this is due to the increase in muscle tissue and energy use via the mitochondria in our cells).

These muscular people and athletes tend to become more efficient at digesting, storing and using nutrients, i.e. less goes to waste because their bodies have learn't to make the most of the controlled food intake they receive.

" Increasing absorbtion rates" through methods offered are controversial and there is as much claiming the opposite.

Again as I stated, athletes develop the ability to both absorb nutrients more effectively than non athletic people but they can also handle larger doses.

Why are many body building and training supplements designed and developed to be absorbed and used at higher doses if your statement is true?

I just find all of this unreasonable.

Educate yourself, do some varied training and read up about how to supplement your body through a good diet and what effect the training and the food have over a period of time.

And there is no such thing as optimum health. There is heathy and sick, and Im not sick.

I disagree. There is an optimum health level and the majority of western civilisations are nowhere near it due to the poor fast-food diet we live on.

We become so used to being at a moderate level of health that we deem it to be optimum (in our minds) or we say things like "I am fine" because we have not experienced anything better so have no reference point to compare with.

Many athletes reach a stage of development where they are not only at a high performance level physically, they are much more efficient as chemical engines i.e. absorbing and using food/supplements, having a much better cellular engine (or one that has been tuned). The result is that they tend to have an optimum level of health when compared to the majority of non-active people.

Equally, you have non-active people who are also at an optimum level of health due to having a good balanced organic diet, keeping busy and walking to maintain a good metabolic level and usually not having a need or relying on pharmaceutical drugs to preserve their health.

I rarely take pharma medicine and/or supplements as 1: I find I am very sensitive them now (due to avoiding them as much as possible) and 2: because I rely on my body to fight any illnesses and I do this by giving it some ammunition in the form of a good healthy diet (regular food, just prepared properly) and moderate level of exercise.

The human body is capable of some amazing things but it requires some tuning and I can personally say that my level of health is far greater than most people I know and more importantly at my later age in life, I am still able to perform as well as a young adult in sport and life.

Good health to you my friend, peace

reply to post by Jaellma


I agree this actually is an issue with translation and semantics.

I will define my use of the term " healthy " :

No infections, diseases, disorders, pains, etc.

Under this definition, I consider menstrual cramps unhealthy.
Worth investigating for treatment.

Now consider this, my wife doesnt ever complain of cramps, saying they are very minor ( i just asked her).
We dont take supplements.

But we do get our vit c , from produce.

reply to post by old_god


I agree I should post counter facts but I cant copy paste good at the moment I am on a touch screen droid and its super annoying and difficult.

Maybe Ill go dig up the older threads and pull out links and better arguements after my wife gets off the PC.

I loathe not being able to copy paste within reason.
Also I loathe the way the cursor is near impossible to move around to correct spelling.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
reply to post by old_god

 

I agree I should post counter facts but I cant copy paste good at the moment I am on a touch screen droid and its super annoying and difficult.

Maybe Ill go dig up the older threads and pull out links and better arguements after my wife gets off the PC.

I loathe not being able to copy paste within reason.
Also I loathe the way the cursor is near impossible to move around to correct spelling.

Hehe the joys of technology ;-)

reply to post by muzzleflash

Under this definition, I consider menstrual cramps unhealthy. Worth investigating for treatment. Now consider this, my wife doesnt ever complain of cramps, saying they are very minor ( i just asked her). We dont take supplements.

Well, I am sorry but someone is lying to you and your wife.

According to just about every single source of information out there, menstrual cramps, mild, severe or otherwise is experienced by up to 50% of all ovulating women AND it has been deemed a NORMAL part of their ovulation cycle.

So, something is not adding up.

Anyway, I am done with this debate for now anyway.

reply to post by old_god


Ok Ill rephrase since these are subjective semantics anyway.

What you call optimum health, top efficiency - I call healthy.

The average person of " medium health " , with various deficencies or other minor disorders as unhealthy.

If someone has no access to food with X chemical, in this case I highly recommend supplementation for obvious reasons.

But in our society here in 1st world we have every fruit and veggie you can imagine for a affordable price.
Im talking prevention here.

If someone is already ill, they may need a strong refined dosage of the needed components.
There are so many variables and different situations its nearly impossible to make absolute definitive conclusions that apply everywhere.

I am reminded that I should be treating every situation and person on individual basis.

Originally posted by Jaellma
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

Under this definition, I consider menstrual cramps unhealthy. Worth investigating for treatment. Now consider this, my wife doesnt ever complain of cramps, saying they are very minor ( i just asked her). We dont take supplements.

Well, I am sorry but someone is lying to you and your wife.

According to just about every single source of information out there, menstrual cramps, mild, severe or otherwise is experienced by up to 50% of all ovulating women AND it has been deemed a NORMAL part of their ovulation cycle.

So, something is not adding up.

Anyway, I am done with this debate for now anyway.

I didnt say she didnt have them, they were minor of no consequence.

And yes most all women should have it time to time.

So I will clarify, menstrual cramps so severe they require medical treatment is unhealthy.

I define medicine as something you take when ill to relieve symptoms or cure the ailment.

Speaking of vit C and estrogen, look it up on google.

Science is unsure what causes cramps, and its diff in various women.

Another article claims vit C increases estrogen production levels.
People with vit C deficiency have lower estrogen level.
Estrogen injection depletes vit C.

Birth control has estrogen and probably would decrease vit c in body.
Its theorized taking estrogen and vit c supplements together will make birth control less effective.

Originally posted by Julie Washington

Originally posted by maryhinge
reply to post by Julie Washington

 

a lot of the stuff you have put in your thread i see in my kids ie rough skin
depression low iron slow healing always ill long term over weight
tiredness the list goes on

so i was just wondreing how much should i give my kids
at the moment they have minadex vitamins A,C and D
A 50% rda
D 100% rda
C 75% rda

should i just add a pure vitamin c to this?

maybe add liposomal vitamin c

edit on 11/1/2013 by maryhinge because: (no reason given)

Sorry I missed this post earlier. How much to give kids?

I think that depends on their age, weight and health. But I would not hesitate to give my 4 year old grandson at least 1 tablespoon a day. Since we really have no guidelines to follow on this it's just a guess.

From research we know that it's probabaly not good to take more than 2,500mg every day. So certainly 1,000mg a day would be reasonable and only more if they get sick with something.

Many things can deplete Vitamin C so there may be times to up the dosage for a few days. It you've been injured, experienced a stressfull event, had surgery, gotten sick. All of these things deplete Vitamin C.

Personally, I wouldn't even consider any over the counter supplements for vitamin C.

Dear Julie Washington
twins of 9 boy and girl and a 12 year old young man (moody little bugger)

so how big should the sonic cleaner be and where do i get vitamin c powder from

thanks again
maryhinge
(phil)

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Speaking of vit C and estrogen, look it up on google.

Science is unsure what causes cramps, and its diff in various women.

Another article claims vit C increases estrogen production levels.
People with vit C deficiency have lower estrogen level.
Estrogen injection depletes vit C.

Birth control has estrogen and probably would decrease vit c in body.
Its theorized taking estrogen and vit c supplements together will make birth control less effective.

If your a male and worried about ESTROGEN then i suggest an ESTROGEN CONTROLER
i use ANATROPIN (I work out)

reply to post by Julie Washington


Excellent post!

Without getting into my complete story again I have cured myself of Cancer twice now, I have also cured my Dog of a large Cancerous Tumor a few years ago and all with massive doses of Timed Released Vitamin C. I first got on to this after reading Linus Paulings book "Vitamin C and Cancer". The FDA Lies! They are and always have been in bed with Big Pharma as well as the Cancer Industry for DECADES! Do you own research, trust yourself in what you will find and make your OWN decisions. Cancer is ALL about Money!

While theres no question VC is an essential nutrient there appears to be allot of information missing from this thread on this topic. Here is just some:

link

China, which exports more than 80 percent of the world's ascorbic acid – also known as vitamin C and a key food preservative – appears to have cut production over the past several months. ...Though there appears to be no reason to believe that Chinese vitamin C is contaminated, the sudden shortage highlights another cause for concern over America's growing reliance on Chinese food imports. Only one Western company, DSM of the Netherlands, still makes ascorbic acid, concentrating production in Scotland since shutting down its US plant two years ago. Chinese firms have driven all other competitors out of business.

link

People trying to improve their health read about all those wonderful vitamin C benefits. They go to the nearest grocery store or health food store and grab the first bottle they see. Most of the public is completely unaware that they are ingesting a product made from GMO's. ... If you prefer avoiding genetically modified crops (as I do), look for a non-GMO product. Unfortunately, they are hard to find. Most vitamin C supplements are made from GMO corn and, lately, sugar beets.

So not only does most of the ascorbic acid found in the U.S. originate in China, it is mostly produced from GMO corn. It would seem that careful selection of ascorbic acid products would be a good idea. I would look for something of a higher quality than ascorbic acid when shopping for VC supplements.

Secondly, regarding dosage, I trust this Dr.'s advice on vitamins:

www.drweil.com...

For the record, I used to recommend taking 2,000 to 6,000 mg of vitamin C daily (divided into three doses). However, in 1999 I lowered my recommendation to 200 to 500 mg (divided into two doses) after reviewing two well-designed studies showing that this amount of vitamin C more than saturates the body's tissues, and thus is sufficient to protect against cancer, heart disease and other chronic illnesses. One of the studies that influenced my decision analyzed clinical trials published in the April 21, 1999 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association. It concluded that 200 mg a day is the maximum amount of vitamin C that human cells can absorb, making higher dosing on a daily basis pointless.

reply to post by Julie Washington

The way I see it, I need an ultrasonic cleaner anyway as I work with small machine parts -and harbor freight is a 10 minute drive away. The vitamin C and the liposomal cost less than 20.00 shipped from ebay. I don't see a down side. Thanks for the information, it's appreciated. As for the nay sayers - you have to wonder why they're trying so hard to shoot this information down.

after i read the lipo c chat, im jumping on that bandwagon, hitting up gnc today and stealing my moms jewelry cleaner (not really she said i could have it ^^)
gonna make my first batch today

reply to post by iiianyydayiii


some people will go against anything,

some people will get paid to go against anything


you figure it out ^^

I remember snacking on rose hips out on the playground in school as a kid and eating crab apples. People thought I was crazy