What the Founding Fathers said about guns

Originally posted by Todzer
Just a question from an outsider, people say that they need the weapons to defend themselves from a tyrannical government, why hasn't it happened yet? The American government seems to have a new way to crap all over their citizens everyday and people are doing nothing. Is the line of needing the guns just an excuse to keep them? I am not attacking anyone or the right to have arms before anyone jumps down my throat.

edit on 10/1/13 by Todzer because: spelling

Well it could because here's what happened in Canada.When the Indians only had a few guns.

Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by Bilder

 

nothing has really changed since the declaration of independence

Nothing has changed except that there is no risk of foreign invasion to be worried about and that gun technology has advanced beyond muskets.

Granted ,I accept that foreign invasion aint going to happen but what about domestic,that was also covered,regardless the constitution is the law ,its not negotiable

Originally posted by doclec
Reply to post by antar

 

If the government does act against it's citizens, what good will an assault rifle do if for instance there are just drones in the skies dropping bombs............we really are circling the drain here

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Heres one way it might go down if the govt decides to act
rense.com...

Originally posted by Bilder

Originally posted by doclec
Reply to post by antar

 

If the government does act against it's citizens, what good will an assault rifle do if for instance there are just drones in the skies dropping bombs............we really are circling the drain here

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Heres one way it might go down if the govt decides to act
rense.com...

Based on what I read there,the government wouldn't stand a chance?

The guns our founding fathers were speaking of were long barrel, rifled single-shot muskets. They were flintlocks. Such guns are no longer even considered "fire arms" by the federal Government. You'll note they were saying it would be bad if every home had a British Guard installed in it and the citizens disarmed. First of all, your Constitutional guarantee is intact. You can have all the arms you can bear. No one is taking away the gun you have now. But restricting access to high round capacity magazines, banning automatic and semi-automatic (convertible to a full auto) is not the same thing as taking away your guns. It is simply keeping military grade weaponry off of our streets. It is to protect children. It is to protect women and the elderly or all those who have not been "trained since youth" on how to use a gun. Giving some balding fifty eight year old school principle a gun and asking him to defend 200 kids by shooting another person is NOT I repeat NOT going to work. Did you know that at Gettysburg they found that a good fifty percent of the weapons in dead men's hands had multiple balls and powder shot in them? This is because these trained soldiers were AFRAID to shoot another man, even one who was shooting at them! All people, even when given a gun, are not natural born killers. Imagine if the principle or teacher buckles under pressure, does not shoot the armed assailant and allows fifty kids to perish! Can you imagine the unbearable weight of responsibility on the souls of those who could not kill? This is why we have soldiers, and national guard, and police, and trained security forces. Some people can kill on command or if need be. Others are KILLERS, they are violent and heartless murderers...not because they own a gun. But because they are sick in the head. Not even our armed forces wants people like that. Now you are terrified that the armed forces of the United States of America, YOUR OWN COUNTRY, are going to faithfully and dogmatically follow some unnamed president or congressman, and knock on your door, take your gun, and install himself in your home like the British tried to do? Come on. Don't be an idiot. This heightened paranoid delusion that someone is going to take your guns is becoming a method for the madness of total loss of control. Certainly the mobsters, drug peddlers and gangsters are way more prepared to kill you than ever before. And as we have just seen recently, even being a gun advocate being in possession of multiple automatic weapons, like the Sandy Hill shooter's mother...does not protect you from being shot yourself by your own weapon. Paranoia and fear, once they take over your common sense, will place you in a way more vulnerable position when the next shooting occurs. This argument you have for gun ownership is idiotic and untenable. Do you have a tank with a flame thrower and sound weaponry? No? Well the Police and Feds do! And they use them all the time! What do you think your AK 47 or Bushmaster will do when they DO come knocking on your door, wondering why you just bought five thousand rounds of armor piercing ammo? That's what happened to David Koresh. It's not 1776 anymore! Wake the # up!

reply to post by Hope4peace


With out guns and the use of guns you would have no hope for peace hope4peace.

reply to post by whisperindave


Wow!!! You said a mouth full. Most of its BS but I do agree with the part about a principle being able to kill someone if they have to. I dont think most teachers in my area would be able to. Thats why they need to be trained or have people in the schools that are trained for that scenario. I am sure there are plenty of retired vets that would love to help. As for the other crap you said again, its all BS. Sounds like you live in another country and should keep to your own business.


The iowa living, gun having, tobacoo chewing hick

reply to post by graphuto


Yeah this is the type of senario im leaning towards especially the part which says once the govt badly loses a couple of confrontations their appearance of invincibility will be in tatters and once the people smell blood in the water its all over

Originally posted by whisperindave
Do you have a tank with a flame thrower and sound weaponry? No? Well the Police and Feds do! And they use them all the time! What do you think your AK 47 or Bushmaster will do when they DO come knocking on your door, wondering why you just bought five thousand rounds of armor piercing ammo? That's what happened to David Koresh. It's not 1776 anymore!

Exactly! See what happens when the government is given more power than the people, they can do whatever they want because they have more firepower. And yet here you stand saying we should give up even more means to resist so they can have an even easier time forcing us to do whatever they want.

We are already over regulated in every aspect of our lives. We were never supposed to have a standing army, and the people were always supposed to be as equally equipped as any government force.

It isn't 1776. It's more like 1774 or 1775. The government is restricting freedom and have already began to imprison and kill its citizens. When 1776 does finally get here I look forward to seeing the people stand up and say we wont take it anymore, we are reclaiming our independence, and people will stand together to fight oppression.

reply to post by HauntWok


Yes how terribly feeble minded. It's never once before happened that a government has disarmed and then abused its citizens... er, um, nevermind....

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Bilder

 

How are guns going to protect you from your own government. They can kill you these days with the press of a button...

It serves as a deterrence. Look it up.

i'm not sure which one said it but i know i've read it ... may the brave live forever.
let freedom reign

reply to post by jademegjosh


Read my rant.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Wolf321

At the end of the day you can save more innocent lives by taking pens away from politicians then guns from law abiding citizens

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
You don't need an assault rifle to go hunting deer, you don't even need a 10 magazine clip to hunt one...but a privately listed company such as Mondanto can have their own private army...

What a short sighted and empty headed comment.

My guns and high round clips are for one thing and one thing only.....killing humans. I don't want to be limited on loaded shots, as not every shot may stop the threat, or even hit it. Never mind that there might be multiple threats.

Please, all you anti-gun nuts, or just ignorant people thinking they are smart, put signs up in your yards declaring the lack of guns in your household. I would feel much safer.

Originally posted by Zarniwoop
reply to post by Bilder

 

nothing has really changed since the declaration of independence

Nothing has changed except that there is no risk of foreign invasion to be worried about and that gun technology has advanced beyond muskets.

I have no problem at all with people owning guns for protection. I do think that laws should be allowed to adjust based on technology advancements, but not as a reaction to isolated incidents or widespread media coverage with political bias. That is another thing that has changed slightly since the declaration.

The thing is the amendment is not and never was about the technology of personal firearms.......the amendment is about the right of the people to protect themselves from government gone mad.

Originally posted by whisperindave
Did you know that at Gettysburg they found that a good fifty percent of the weapons in dead men's hands had multiple balls and powder shot in them? This is because these trained soldiers were AFRAID to shoot another man, even one who was shooting at them!

This was because the men couldnt hear their guns go off for all the noise so they would reload over a missfire. These wepaons had a high missfire rate which troops were trained to look out for but it was mostly a training that had to do with the sound of the weapons going off.

Even with modern weapons, in the noise of battle, men are unaware they are not firing sometimes, even though they are holding the trigger down.

reply to post by winofiend


You think you have it all figured out don't you? I am guessing you're not American and you probably know nothing about small communities in America. I'm not an American either, I'm British and would not claim for one minute that I know anything about America as I've never visited/lived there.

However, despite all that. I get a strong feeling of good will when I see Americans talk about the second ammendment. It is my belief that America needs to keep her guns to save the world from you know what...

Originally posted by WesternIowaParanormal
reply to post by Hope4peace

 

With out guns and the use of guns you would have no hope for peace hope4peace.

Yes and there is a built in yet not stated balance of power....knowing the people are armed is a standoff of sorts. If all the peopel and the government do is stare down the barrel at each other then a certain amount of peace is thereby had.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


And although we are well armed its rare to see a gun in public these days. In the past 5 years I have seen only one citizen with a side holster.