Question for people that live in the USA

reply to post by Donner


I replied to this exact question later in the thread.

This forum is mostly Americans. I wanted their opinion on what I perceived to be hypocrisy. Some people understood and answered civilly, some people couldn't wrap their small minds around an analogy(not the best analogy, but it works) and could not be civil or honest with themselves. I have stated "some Americans" and even further clarified it by saying it was an attempt to get the ones that I was describing to come out and "play". Unfortunately, as is quite evident, I got the bottom of the barrel hanging on, when I was hoping for the cream of the crop.

Oh well, some Americans have responded on this thread saying this would happen, I guess I had more hope and faith in the Americans that responded on this thread than they did. I guess believing in them and hoping they would understand was a fail on my part.

Sorry for failing you, people that can't understand. I would love to help you but, I am unable to.

I will only be responding to people that respond to my original question, just like the intelligent ones have from the beginning to now.

Edit: Thank you for the U2U, you know who you are. That is the only reason why I came back here, because some people understand what I meant and actually thought it was a well thought out question.

Originally posted by Malcher

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by Malcher
OK...Let me try another way.

You are comparing an entirely domestic issue with an international issue. If you said Americans were telling citizens from another country could not have guns themselves that would make the OP at least logical.

Nope. Still thinking centrally.

Whether Iran enriches Uranium is a national issue in Iran.
Whether the US bans or allows assault weapons, is a national issue in the US.

Neither should have a say about what the other does. You are making the mistake of assuming I was comparing nukes to hand guns, which would be ridiculous.

I am not telling you that you cannot support whatever you want, but people all over the world view nukes an international issue. I cannot see how US's own gun owners could be viewed as international.

I think you see what we have been explaining to you and are now doing a little tap dancing.

Nope. No tap dancing. I have already stated that I can see you and your friends point. If Iran had a nuclear bomb. They don't, so my point stands.
Plus, this applies to you and your friends.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by Donner

 

I replied to this exact question later in the thread.

This forum is mostly Americans. I wanted their opinion on what I perceived to be hypocrisy. Some people understood and answered civilly, some people couldn't wrap their small minds around an analogy(not the best analogy, but it works) and could not be civil or honest with themselves. I have stated "some Americans" and even further clarified it by saying it was an attempt to get the ones that I was describing to come out and "play". Unfortunately, as is quite evident, I got the bottom of the barrel hanging on, when I was hoping for the cream of the crop.

Oh well, some Americans have responded on this thread saying this would happen, I guess I had more hope and faith in the Americans that responded on this thread than they did. I guess believing in them and hoping they would understand was a fail on my part.

Sorry for failing you, people that can't understand. I would love to help you but, I am unable to.

I will only be responding to people that respond to my original question, just like the intelligent ones have from the beginning to now.

Edit: Thank you for the U2U, you know who you are. That is the only reason why I came back here, because some people understand what I meant and actually thought it was a well thought out question.

edit on 10-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

Your entire post here is insulting, belittling and condescending to a large majority of ATS members that participated in your thread.

Calling those of us that did not agree with your analogy, or pointed out that we thought it was bad, as in Apples and Oranges does not mean we are "small minded' or "bottom of the barrel".

But it does seem to me, in my humble opinion, to show that some has a rather large head, and refuses to even consider the possibility that they may have been wrong, incorrect.......or used a very, very bad analogy of two different things.

Sorry that many of us "disappointed" you. However, might I suggest that in the future (and something you should already know having been here since 2010), that you might just try using some of that civil attitude yourself, instead of calling people "small minded" or "bottom of the barrel".

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by Donner

 

I replied to this exact question later in the thread.

This forum is mostly Americans. I wanted their opinion on what I perceived to be hypocrisy. Some people understood and answered civilly, some people couldn't wrap their small minds around an analogy(not the best analogy, but it works) and could not be civil or honest with themselves. I have stated "some Americans" and even further clarified it by saying it was an attempt to get the ones that I was describing to come out and "play". Unfortunately, as is quite evident, I got the bottom of the barrel hanging on, when I was hoping for the cream of the crop.

Oh well, some Americans have responded on this thread saying this would happen, I guess I had more hope and faith in the Americans that responded on this thread than they did. I guess believing in them and hoping they would understand was a fail on my part.

Sorry for failing you, people that can't understand. I would love to help you but, I am unable to.

I will only be responding to people that respond to my original question, just like the intelligent ones have from the beginning to now.

Edit: Thank you for the U2U, you know who you are. That is the only reason why I came back here, because some people understand what I meant and actually thought it was a well thought out question.

edit on 10-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

Your entire post here is insulting, belittling and condescending to a large majority of ATS members that participated in your thread.

Calling those of us that did not agree with your analogy, or pointed out that we thought it was bad, as in Apples and Oranges does not mean we are "small minded' or "bottom of the barrel".

But it does seem to me, in my humble opinion, to show that some has a rather large head, and refuses to even consider the possibility that they may have been wrong, incorrect.......or used a very, very bad analogy of two different things.

Sorry that many of us "disappointed" you. However, might I suggest that in the future (and something you should already know having been here since 2010), that you might just try using some of that civil attitude yourself, instead of calling people "small minded" or "bottom of the barrel".

edit on 10-1-2013 by eriktheawful because: (no reason given)

The only ATS members that would feel insulted by my above post were themselves acting that way and know that I was speaking directly to them in the above post. If I hurt your feelings in that post I apologize.

I admitted the analogy wasn't the best. I offered further clarification. People do not like to read whole threads, I get that. But at least show enough respect to go back and read when you bring up a point that has been brought up repeatedly.

An analogy was used, and it did use two different things, but as I stated, it would be badly wrong if Iran had nuclear weapons, they don't. So it was just a bad analogy. I further clarified that later on. I can't go back and edit a post once the time limit is over, you know that.

I explained what I meant time and time again (and even again right now) but you people refused to even try to take part in a civil discussion about what was meant, instead focusing on the wording used.

That is poor form as well. It isn't just on me how badly this thread went.

Edit: I get it though. I have also been involved in bashing a thread, and once people start backing you up, you will make up any straw man argument to keep it going. Look at the first 2 pages of this thread for God's sake.


Edit#2: You never disappointed me, I failed you guys. I already apologized for that.

reply to post by superman2012


Congrats on not only derailing your own thread, but you also found a way to be the OP and the troll that derailed it...

reply to post by jhn7537


Sure, if that's what you need to hear. Thanks for contributing to this thread. You were a valuable resource/person to have on here.

Edit: I starred you too.

reply to post by superman2012


Your thread could have went so much better if you didn't attack people who

1. Didn't answer your question to your liking
2. Opened up discussion to the direction your thread was going in
3. Didn't call everyone who disagreed with you "small minded"

Other than that, surprised this thread went 20 pages, especially knowing the last 6 pages have been pretty much off topic.

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by superman2012

 

Your thread could have went so much better if you didn't attack people who

1. Didn't answer your question to your liking
2. Opened up discussion to the direction your thread was going in
3. Didn't call everyone who disagreed with you "small minded"

Other than that, surprised this thread went 20 pages, especially knowing the last 6 pages have been pretty much off topic.

Yup sure could have.
1. I wish they answered the question I asked at all.
2. I wish they (and myself) stayed on topic.
3. Had anyone actually disagreed with me? I didn't even answer my own question. Want to know why? I'm not a US citizen. I wanted your input. I got it....loud and clear.

Edit: Starred you again.

A more accurate statement would be that a good portion of Americans are biased. That much I can agree with. I am in fact, biased. There's no shame in that. A lot of us are. We feel a lot safer being the ones that tell others not to do shìt, rather than the alternative. Sure, we have domestic crazies here and we get into our share of wars but, we don't publicly call for the death of nations and behead their citizens when they visit us and then have the audacity to declare people martyrs or heroes for blowing themselves up, whilst taking civilians with them..... all in the name of ____(INSERT DEITY HERE)____. And even though Christian extremists in the republican party would love to indoctrinate all with bibles (New Testament), the majority still holds the separation of church & state very dear.

I am biased and I don't think Iran should have nukes. Sue me. A lot of reasonable people around the world feel the same way.

reply to post by superman2012


Now I felt obligated to give you a star back.... So i did

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
A more accurate statement would be that a good portion of Americans are biased. That much I can agree with. I am in fact, biased. There's no shame in that. A lot of us are. We feel a lot safer being the ones that tell others not to do shìt, rather than the alternative. Sure, we have domestic crazies here and we get into our share of wars but, we don't publicly call for the death of nations and behead their citizens when they visit us and then have the audacity to declare people martyrs or heroes for blowing themselves up, whilst taking civilians with them..... all in the name of ____(INSERT DEITY HERE)____. And even though Christian extremists in the republican party would love to indoctrinate all with bibles (New Testament), the majority still holds the separation of church & state very dear.

I am biased and I don't think Iran should have nukes. Sue me. A lot of reasonable people around the world feel the same way.

I agree with that statement as well, but so are many people from many countries.
1. Mahmoud never called for the death of a nation.
2. US doesn't kill foreigners on their soil, but, they sure have killed a lot of innocents with missile/drone strikes.
3. Iran has it's share of extremists, same as the US.
I don't think there is any reason for Iran to have nukes, but I also don't see a reason why they shouldn't.

See? I can discuss this as well. I was only trying to keep it on topic before (well, as much as I could, I'm only human as well).

So nothing?

Now that I have completely clarified what I meant and what the real question is ( I hope), no one wants to participate and answer the original question as it was meant to be?

reply to post by SplitInfinity



It is still the same thing as gun control, on a larger scale!

No it's not different. It is people that have a different law, beliefs, religion and values than your own.

If your neighbor is different than you, (has a different world view, and values) and so doesn't trust what you will do with those guns.

See, I believe I am very responsible with my firearms.... but so does EVERYONE. We all agree with our our own judgement and think we are smarter and more rightious than anyone different.

I've seen some pretty dumbass, questionably motivated people claiming their "right" to have a gun, and figure their neighbors would be justfied in disagreeing.

That shouldn't give them the right to take the weapons away then, but if you apply the same logic as with the nukes situation, then which ever one of you just happens to get guns first will have the right to insist the other cannot have any.



My embarrassment has nothing to do with people valuing the second amendment, and I don't expect they care that I am embarrassed!

Has more to do with the silly comments of the sort "the rest of the world is jealous of our freedoms"

USA is not the only country that want's Iran disarmed. Many countries in all continents want Iran disarmed but America gets the blame yeah because they are the one's who have to DO THE JOB. Because all you people in the world look for us to solve everything and stop everything first. You talk so much # about USA then when your in a hard-spot who do you look to, to get help first? USA.

reply to post by Bluesma

Has more to do with the silly comments of the sort "the rest of the world is jealous of our freedoms"

Well the rest of the world still wants to be here. Perhaps not just for the "freedoms" but for the "opportunities". Ever been inside an INS office in the States? People from every country all sitting waiting for their green cards or citizenship which they have either applied for or are in process of applying.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Has more to do with the silly comments of the sort "the rest of the world is jealous of our freedoms"

Well the rest of the world still wants to be here. Perhaps not just for the "freedoms" but for the "opportunities". Ever been inside an INS office in the States? People from every country all sitting waiting for their green cards or citizenship which they have either applied for or are in process of applying.

Though it used to be true, that other countries saw America as a "land of opportunity", that reputation is over. It is now refered to as the "american myth" and it is common knowledge that is no longer the case. People in other countries now get hired and have great jobs by american companies right in their own backyard. Apple, for example, just hired a couple hundred people in the town next to mine. The pay and benefits offered were good; those people see no reason at all it would be better to go to the US and be one of the many indebted and unemployed (and without social security) american citizens!

People here mostly warn each other about how dangerous it is in the US- that the police are irrationally violent and the court system is broken. The reputation sounds a lot like we used to talk of Mexico when I was young.

.... and on that, we come back to the silly assertion that the people can defend themselves against their own government with their firearms.... good luck with that! We all invested for years in a military so powerful it can invade and conquer other ones, with armed peoples of their own.......

Originally posted by superman2012
The only ATS members that would feel insulted by my above post were themselves acting that way and know that I was speaking directly to them in the above post. If I hurt your feelings in that post I apologize.

I admitted the analogy wasn't the best. I offered further clarification. People do not like to read whole threads, I get that. But at least show enough respect to go back and read when you bring up a point that has been brought up repeatedly.

An analogy was used, and it did use two different things, but as I stated, it would be badly wrong if Iran had nuclear weapons, they don't. So it was just a bad analogy. I further clarified that later on. I can't go back and edit a post once the time limit is over, you know that.

I explained what I meant time and time again (and even again right now) but you people refused to even try to take part in a civil discussion about what was meant, instead focusing on the wording used.

That is poor form as well. It isn't just on me how badly this thread went.

Edit: I get it though. I have also been involved in bashing a thread, and once people start backing you up, you will make up any straw man argument to keep it going. Look at the first 2 pages of this thread for God's sake.

edit on 10-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

Edit#2: You never disappointed me, I failed you guys. I already apologized for that.

edit on 10-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

That the analogy upon which you based your entire thread wasn't a good one is what we have all been saying! Now, you admit that, but still insist that some people weren't responding as they should? Nothing I posted was less than civil. I stated that was a failed analogy, and that the issues you used to try and illustrate hypocrisy were not related.

If you have some better analogy, please, offer it. I am all for getting to the heart of things. None of us are without flaws, and that is one reason such discussions are a good thing.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Has more to do with the silly comments of the sort "the rest of the world is jealous of our freedoms"

Well the rest of the world still wants to be here. Perhaps not just for the "freedoms" but for the "opportunities". Ever been inside an INS office in the States? People from every country all sitting waiting for their green cards or citizenship which they have either applied for or are in process of applying.

I will disagree with you on that somewhat. Most of the people I see trying to immigrate to the US are coming from 3rd world countries where this is still seen as the land of opportunity but when I travel to other countries each year and speak to the people I have found that most people that already live in 1st world and as of late some 2nd world countries have no intention or want to immigrate to the US. I can say there are quite a few countries I have been to that as an American citizen I am quite envious of. The US still may rise back to its former glory but it will be a bumpy path.

reply to post by superman2012


Tell Iran not to sign treaties then not abide by them and they wouldn't have this problem. In fact if they don't want to comply with the NPT treaty that they signed then they can just back out of the treaty.


-Alien