Question for people that live in the USA

My having a gun does not threaten someone living in say Great Britian....but Iran having a nuclear bomb could threaten me here in the United States as well as those living in other countries (ie, Great Britain) also.

Personally, as an individual and American, I see no reason they they can not be.

I do not buy into all the propaganda media circus hype about Ahmadinejad, and have the same professional respect for him as Putin or George sr, of course two of these mentioned were intel officers and presidents of their respective nations, but my point should be conveyed.

Show me evidence of the contrary and I may, reconsider. Of course it hasn't happened as of yet.

Originally posted by solomons path
reply to post by superman2012

 

First off, I know a lot of Texans that think Texas is bigger than the U.S. They think Texas is bigger than everything (and better). Mind you, they know that is not reality but they will talk as if it is.

Second, I have to agree with others here. You (world) seem to be confusing U.S. politcal agenda/policy with the wishes of the U.S. citizenry. A better analogy would be that our government is denying Iran to defend themselves and our government is trying to deny its citizens the right to defend themselves.

Seems that their message/actions are congruant and not hypocritical at all.

Not at all, as I stated above, I am just going by the replies and threads started on ATS. I don't care about this issue otherwise, it is the US's issue, not mine. I was just astounded at the people that don't care what other people in other countries think about this, but, are quick to tell the rest of the world how to handle their affairs. ( Remember, I'm just talking about members of ATS which should be a good cross section of people).

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Personally, as an individual and American, I see no reason they they can not be.

I do not buy into all the propaganda media circus hype about Ahmadinejad, and have the same professional respect for him as Putin or George sr, of course two of these mentioned were intel officers and presidents of their respective nations, but my point should be conveyed.

Show me evidence of the contrary and I may, reconsider. Of course it hasn't happened as of yet.

So, are you saying, if they are developing/have developed nuclear bombs you would support a pre-emptive attack on them?

I believe citizens of a country should have a right to bear arms to prevent threats foreign and domestic. I do not believe the right to bear arms includes nukes. I do not support any country who promises to share weapons of mass destruction and threatens to totally destroy an ally of ours. I do not see anything contradictory in these statements. What I perceive are some from foreign countries either seeing no problem with a terrorist entity or country having weapons of mass destruction or someone who just wants to argue with one of our rights our country has that they disagree with.

If Iran does have nukes, now nuclear war is probably just a matter of time before it happens. Congratulations to all those who wanted that. To those in Europe or the middle east who don't see a problem with Iran having nukes, I would like it better if the US could vacate that whole area and not worry if warheads start flying in the area over there. If the radiation didn't travel across the globe, I would say you are right, it's great that Iran is building up for a nuclear war. Every warhead is that much more radiation for everyone.

reply to post by superman2012


The same reason anyone tells another country and its people how to do things, for any number of a multitude of reasons.

But I, personally, dont do this. Ive said before, every country has the right to defend itself, just as every citizen has the right to defend themselves. It IS hypocritical when the US tells other countries they cant have nukes, but has 10k+ itself. Its a ridiculous show of hypocrisy. Its just the biggest bully telling others they are not allowed to get any bigger or its going to come and beat them up.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
My having a gun does not threaten someone living in say Great Britian....but Iran having a nuclear bomb could threaten me here in the United States as well as those living in other countries (ie, Great Britain) also.

Right, I get that, but you are missing the point. How can an American tell someone what to do in another country and then get mad when someone from another country tells them what they should do?

The Iran having no nukes deal has everything to do with Israel and nothing to do with US security. Israel is not satisfied with having the only nuclear arms in the middle east other than the US they do not want others to have them. The Israelis have over 300 nuclear weapons. They also have ICBMs. No other nation in the region other than the US possess these types or number of weapons.

reply to post by superman2012


Oh, in that case . . . yes they are extremely hypocritical.

You do have to realize that there are not as many freethinkers in the U.S., as claim to be. Most are thoroughly entrenched in either the red or blue camp, even here on ATS. Even some that claim to be independent/libertarian still spout party rhetoric when it suits their beliefs. It's unfortunate that important issues get identified with certain sides of the aisle . . . or with this country in general.

But yes, anyone on ATS spouting off about protecting the 2nd and also disarmament of Iran is a hypocrite. Albeit, the rights of a citizen and diplomacy between countries rarely follow the same rules.

Originally posted by exitusstatuquo
The Iran having no nukes deal has everything to do with Israel and nothing to do with US security. Israel is not satisfied with having the only nuclear arms in the middle east other than the US they do not want others to have them. The Israelis have over 300 nuclear weapons. They also have ICBMs. No other nation in the region other than the US possess these types or number of weapons.

Pakistan and India both have nukes . . . they are in the area.

reply to post by superman2012


I have always been a firm supporter of pre-emptive strike.

Of course my stance on nuclear arms is that we do not need them. Energy on the other hand, is what Iran says it wants, its the waste the international community is most concerned about.

So, where does that leave us?

My short answer would be because we (Americans) have been told for decades how superior we are, how unique we are, how much "better" we are than everyone else. 'Murica! Many people have developed the "I know better than any Canadian, Mexican, German... person so their opinion is worthless."

Truth is, we're not all that shallow. Even though I think our domestic issues are ours to fix, it doesn't bother me to hear what other non Americans think about them.

We have things about our country that do make us great but I think we've gotten a bit too big for our britches. I'd love for us to stay the hell out of other countries problems and stop being the world police but that probably won't happen in my lifetime.

reply to post by DelMar


The trouble is, everyone is unique...I think this cartoon best sums it up though.

Is it bash America week on ATS or something?

Im in England and even I am getting pissed off with the Yank bashing this week..

Ffs!

Give it a rest!

reply to post by superman2012


Superman: You are mixing legal metaphors. Stop it.

The logic is this: rights granted to individual citizens in the United States (yes, I know people from UK have a difficult time wrapping their heads around some of those "Mayflower" laws) sometimes provide them with the ability to, within the legal context of their own sovereignity or country, to do certain things. Now, as far as I'm concerned the right to bear arms in order to form a militia (something those supporting the right to bear arms leave out ALL the time) has been extrapolated to mean "I can own as many guns as I like, especially the ones that can rip an elephant in half like a sheet of perforated paper." In an American court room, not only is the letter of the law taken into consideration but the spirit of the law as well. So, to answer your original stir-the-pot question of Americans: yes, we like our laws and will fight as much as we can to get the most out of them...even if that means misinterpreting them.

As for pointing a finger at Iran, please stop being a simpleton about this. It is one thing to raise the question of gun control within a country, one where you are a citizen and subject to the law itself. It is another thing entirely to look into the larger international political arena and make judgments based on safety: Safety that has been built upon decades and decades of military interests as well as global allies who have not just agreed to have us in the region where said nuclear bomb might be developed and possibly detonated, but allies who have pretty much paid for us to be there.

In fact, the UK has also sent military hardware to the area like the United States in a similar fashion to protect its interests with countries like Saudi Arabia who are enormous suppliers of (wait for it) oil.

So your baiting of everyone on this thread is more than a bit frustrating. Especially when we have to see the goading coming from an American icon such as Superman in the margin. We deserve more from the man of steel.

Originally posted by EvanB
Is it bash America week on ATS or something?

Im in England and even I am getting pissed off with the Yank bashing this week..

Ffs!

Give it a rest!

Is this bashing? Asking Americans a question? Maybe you need to go back and read. I have nothing against American people...hell, I'm one of them...I'm just a North American. I was just looking for their input in regards to the question I posed.
Thanks for participating?

reply to post by superman2012


You don't sound American. You sound like you're from Greenland.

Originally posted by EvanB
Is it bash America week on ATS or something?

Im in England and even I am getting pissed off with the Yank bashing this week..

Ffs!

Give it a rest!

The OP was far from bashing anyone. This perfectly illustrates a huge problem in the US and this forum as well. Don't address the issue, just throw in some random unrelated words and try to deflect from the topic at hand.

reply to post by superman2012

Is this a case of, do as I say, not as I do? Also, why, in the face of this double standard, should we take anything you say from now on seriously?

I am an American and I totally emphasize with the world about our hypocrisy. I know what they must think because mostly I agree with them. A lot of others do too. Just not enough apparently to affect any kind of meaningful change.

Especially from within.

How about it World... time for a change?

reply to post by skyzeagle


1. You must have missed reading this whole thread or you would have read that I made the distinction between government, laws and my reading of posts/threads on ATS, which this thread is made in direct reference to my reading ATS.
2. Superman was made by Canadians, Metropolis is based on Toronto, and Superman renounced his US Citizenship.

What else you got, because you clearly can't answer the question posed to you without trying to make it into something more than what it was intended and spelled out so that mistakes like yours wouldn't be made.