Why Kid Yourself America, Gun Control isn Not About the 2nd Ammendment

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by Dispo
How do you propose that America takes its 320,000,000 people and distils their opinions on guns down to one single viewpoint for you?

I'm not proposing anything aside from these two factors

1) Admit the real reason you want to keep guns.

and

2) If you decide to continue to keep guns, stop whining about the massacres that regularly happen and will continue to happen in your nation. As far as I am concerned they are crocodile tears, because if you guys really cared about the people that die in these massacres, you would get rid of your gun.

Its that simple, that is all I ask.

So, in your mind, people who already have every intention of using guns illegally (i.e., in mass shootings) will suddenly decide to be law abiding citizens and hand in their guns if gun rights are revoked?

You arguments are VERY weak, my friend.

Criminals have guns in the UK

The last mass shooting (12 people dead) was 2010, by a legally owned shotgun might I add.

The time before that to find a mass shooting was in 1996, when hand guns were still legal.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
reply to post by michael1983l

 

You are exactly right, for the wrong reason.

It is about power. Not, however, power over our fellow man, but power over the government.

So as your guns give you no power over your government then you can give them up can't you?

1st. I don't own guns, so I cannot give what I do not have.
2nd. Prove to me guns do not give US citizens power over the US government, they certainly gave it power over the British government.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by InTheFlesh1980

 

Yes I see people keep quoting the 2nd Ammendment to me and that is your legal standpoint behind wanting to keep guns. But your motivational reason for wanting to keep guns is for most, because it makes them feel powerful. FFS just buy a sports car instead.

Based on that response, I just don't think you're going to be able to comprehend the realities on this issue.

You see, I understand what you are saying. I have comprehended it, and I provided evidence that you are misguided.

You, on the other hand, are not comprehending the necessity of Second Amendment rights. Your short-bus Psych101 burbles about "feeling powerful" are pamby-tripe.

Your assertion that gun owners have them to "feel powerful" is about as defensible as me saying that non-gun-owners are sado-masochists that want to feel used and abused by tyrannical governments because they like being beat up then s**t on. Neither statement can be verified, and coincidentally, neither are true.

Double Post again...

Time to close and re-open FireFox.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by randomtangentsrme
reply to post by michael1983l

 

You are exactly right, for the wrong reason.

It is about power. Not, however, power over our fellow man, but power over the government.

So as your guns give you no power over your government then you can give them up can't you?

That is a completely fallacious line. If guns give us no power over our government, why, then, have they not been taken away, which has been postulated about for decades now?

Thats right...because 'they' fear our guns.

The UK government want to take many things off us, but they cannot because there is no will from the electorate for them to do so. Much like they won't take your guns, it is not because they fear you will shoot at them should they try, but more like they fear you will not vote for them at the next election. Its called DEMOCRACY.

So, in other words, you were okay with handing in your guns. good for you, and your side of the pond. We have intestinal fortitude over here, which is why it wont happen.

reply to post by seeker1963


I could pull out lots of my posts, where I register my sadness on what is going on all around the world, its not just a out america. I cannot be bothered mind, but if you wish you know where my profile button is, you will find them there. So please stop lying about things I have or have not said to promote your selfish agenda.

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by Dispo
How do you propose that America takes its 320,000,000 people and distils their opinions on guns down to one single viewpoint for you?

I'm not proposing anything aside from these two factors

1) Admit the real reason you want to keep guns.

and

2) If you decide to continue to keep guns, stop whining about the massacres that regularly happen and will continue to happen in your nation. As far as I am concerned they are crocodile tears, because if you guys really cared about the people that die in these massacres, you would get rid of your gun.

Its that simple, that is all I ask.

So, in your mind, people who already have every intention of using guns illegally (i.e., in mass shootings) will suddenly decide to be law abiding citizens and hand in their guns if gun rights are revoked?

You arguments are VERY weak, my friend.

Criminals have guns in the UK

The last mass shooting (12 people dead) was 2010, by a legally owned shotgun might I add.

The time before that to find a mass shooting was in 1996, when hand guns were still legal.

Hmmm...so you openly admit that gun control hasnt stopped mass shootings. Imagine that.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


No I have confirmed that they have STOPPED mass shootings. Notice the only mass shooting since guns have been banned was purpotrated by a legally owned Gun.

That is 17 years, with no mass shootings from illigally owned guns.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

No I have confirmed that they have stopped mass shootings. Notice the only mass shooting since guns have been banned was purpotrated by a legally owned Gun.

Really? So 1 mass shooting is equal to stopping them? The fact is, firearms are illegal, a mass shooting still happened. You said it yourself" "criminals in the UK have guns". So what you are openly admitting is that you want the good, law abiding citizens to be defenseless, while criminals who disregard the laws whether guns are legal or not still get them easily.

Kind of bass akward logic there....

Lets get one thing straight, a crazy that is intent on going and killing multiple people will not be deterred because he can no longer obtain 30 round clips, these people that commit these mass shootings could do the same exact thing with a hunting rifle with a 5 round clip or multiple 3 round clips, changing a clip takes a small amount of time. The government just wants to ban anything that would make citizens a huge threat when they decide to declare martial law and a civil war breaks out. They don't want people having assault rifles and big bullets because they penetrate armor much more easily then the .22's they would be more then happy to let us have.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Its about power. You all masquerade that it is about protecting your civil liberties and your constitution, but it is not is it? start being honest with yourselves and others about the real reason you want to keep your gun. It is about feeling powerful isn't it? That is all it is, you think that owning a gun makes you powerful, because you have the ability to take somebodys life should you choose to do so. This makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, that you have the power to end a life at the detention of your trigger finger. You do not want your government to take this power away from you because it will leave a void in your life. You feel so strongly about this that you are willing to see so many deaths of your citizens each year to uphold your right to feel powerful oops i mean bear arms.

Maybe if you all started being honest about why you really don't want gun control, then us outsiders might be able to accept your reasoning.

Just a thought.

200+ million gun owners and you lumped them all into the category of "owning a gun makes you feel powerful".

Some folks hunt and love hunting with a gun (sure they could hunt with a knife or bow too). Some people collect guns the way others might collect stamps. Some people like the comfort of having a gun in house for defense. Some people like to target shoot or trap shoot for sport as a hobby....the list goes on.

It does not matter WHY American's want to own guns.

They CAN own guns.

It doesn't matter why, what for, how many or what kind.

They can own guns.

You generalized it all wayyyyy to much.

reply to post by michael1983l


Well if you are from Britain, maybe they just decided to stop these fake shootings once they took your guns. There is a huge difference between Brits and Americans, we don't just roll over and give up( American Revolution HAHA). I cant name the amount of things you people have ran away from or lost because of simply "giving up". Most likely explains why you Brits lost your superpower status awhile ago.

reply to post by Newagekid2012


And so, yet another pissing contest between the colonies begins.

Gun Control is about Control per se and the monopolization of force by the government (which is in direct contrast to the Second Amendment to the Constitution of The United States of America). If the federal government wants to infringe on this right - Bill of Rights - then let it try to Amend the Constitution thru proper legal means. I submit that the First Ten Amendments (Bill of Rights) are not amendable as they are "inalienable".....

If stricter laws regarding gun ownership are passed and enforced...people will still find a way to possess them.

As time goes on I see for the future; more protests, civil unrest; riots and major crimes still happening.

As a result..for a time...the United States will be under a stricter martial law.; than it has been since Lincoln's presidency.

reply to post by caladonea

Under such a scenario there would be guns available via the "black market" but the penalties for possession would be extreme (ie, 10 yrs and $250,000 fine).

Oohhh...it's a rip on gun owners. See, because your title and post make more sense when looked at from a different angle. It is about power and control, the power to be the only entity with guns, better able to control large populations when you exercise your power and herd them into FEMA camps.

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

Under such a scenario there would be guns available via the "black market" but the penalties for possession would be extreme (ie, 10 yrs and $250,000 fine).

Yup, because mandatory minimums and steep sentences relative to drug crimes has worked so well in that arena.

reply to post by michael1983l


Yeah, great point.
You had a mass shooting with and AR and so they banned ARs (hungerford I think?), you had another with handguns (dunblane?), then most recently you had one with only shotguns and bolt actions (cumbria).

So each time they took away a different class of guns, but each time the crazy person was effective at killing around the same amount of people with what they had. Obviously the problem wasn't the type of guns, or even guns at all, it was a crazy person, and eventually people with no chance to defend themselves. If you banned all guns as a result they next one will probably be a crazy guy blowing up something. Then will you ban all explosives or anything that can make an explosive? Then someone will 3d print a gun, Will you ban all 3d printers or only allow files that go through a government approval?

People will always kill people, guns aren't the problem. Assault weapons are actually rarely used to kill people, so why are they being attacked?

The UK was needlessly disarmed, they submitted to it.

reply to post by michael1983l
Your post is very condescending from the very beginning are you a troll or a shill? I am an American and I own many guns; for many different reasons. First, I hunt wild game e.g. Deer, Mule Deer, Bear, Pheasant, Chukar, Quail, Squirrel, Antelope, Elk, and someday hopefully Moose. I do not kill these animals for fun or profit or any other reason than it is part of what my family and I eat all year long. I can, freeze, and dehydrate the meat and even bake the scraps and bones for my dogs. I tan the hides and give them to family and friends who use the hides for coats, throws, and whatever suits them. The feathers/skins from the pheasants are given to folks who tie their own flies for trout fishing and are greatly appreciated. It is a way of life! It is how I was raised to be self sufficient and prepare for winter or hard times. Very little is ever wasted and I have no problem with taking this game for my family! I never take more than I need and I am very responsible. I also harvest these animals with a compound bow, crossbow, and black powder rifles.
It has NOTHING to do with power or your deluded vision of gun owners. I do have weapons for self defense and to protect my family for whatever reason may occur. I am ex-military and as my ATS name suggests I was an U.S. Army Ranger and I was a Sniper. I NEVER felt a feeling of power even while in the Army. I was more worried about my comrades and completing the mission so I could come home to my family. To be honest about it there was times when I thought about ripping the buttons off my BDU’s/ Gilley suit so I could get closer to the ground; I was scared to death!
I am always amazed by people who know very little about weapons, but tend to chime in and express their views on them.. First, it is not a gun! It is a weapon! This is my rifle, this is my gun;
One is for fighting, one is for fun. You figure it out okay? Weapons are made for killing; just like hammers are made for driving nails. Don’t try to make it something it is not; that is what it was designed to do…..like it or not. Most, and again I say most firearm owners (Weapon owners) are way more responsible than the other side of the coin just from the people I know.
People who have actually used these weapons and seen the loss of life on both sides have a VERY DEEP appreciation for life and do not take it lightly. Unfortunately, there are times when you either die or take a life; it is that simple and it is not a feeling of “Power” as you say! It is exactly the opposite, it is a feeling of regret because you know it was someone’s son, husband, or father.
Granted, I will give you this there are idiots who think because they have XYZ weapon they are some badass or Rambo and they do NOT need to own a weapon! However, for every one of them there are 1000 responsible owners. (Pulled that number out of thin air!) don’t really know the true stats other than what I have seen first hand. I don’t need a weapon for some punk who talks crap on the street, but when he/she has a weapon and I don’t then most of the time I will lose unless I can disarm them and no I have never had to do this. Bottom-line, there are rotten people in this world and no one can change that; always has been always will be. If they threaten my wife, daughter, grandson…ect….I has no problem removing their gene pool from the shallow puddle that exists today.
I have tried to be very respectful to you and would love to have a “Logical” debate with you on this subject. Take the emotions and preconceived notions out of it and let’s really talk?