Jessica Lynch never beaten or abused.

My pleasure.

I became aware when i began to discover the idea of Bias, and that everyone has a bias. I went nuts for years trying to understand who was right, who was wrong, and realized there is no absolute right or wrong in peoples tales! the experiemnt with light filters in 6th grade science class made me remeber that white light is made up of different fractions of color. Once i realized that each story has a little piece of truth somewhere nudged into it, the task is taking out the truths that fit together from each story. This is a classic example.

Car accident: One person claims its other drivers fault, other driver does likewise. Careful examination will show, yeah, the driver that hit the car was not looking when he turned, but the other driver should have been driving slower given the icy conditions, then he would have been able to avoid getting hit.

Media bias in the US is bad enough, but overseas, its frighteing. Cant begin to tell you how many Europeans implicitly believe thier media spin as the absolute truth. Even many americans will take our media spin on things alot more tounge in cheek. Inability to see bias is the first step to becoming a good drone.

The article didn't prove much of anything to me for the already stated reasons.
A decent question to ask is from what type of vehicle did Pvt. Lynch take this fall? She broke a thigh bone faling out of what? Darned sure wasn't an Hummer, and I doubt that would happen in the fall from a deuce. Was she riding on top of the trailer of a 5 ton?

I don't recall anyone ever claiming the Iraqi doctors did her harm, but I seriously doubt that story of breaking that particular bone falling from a vehicle. If so, she was too frail to be in the Army, much less in a combat zone.

Many ways to break ones bones. getting thrown from the vehicle, as well as say heavy equipment falling on top of a person, something not secured, ect. Since it was a maintanence unit, and she was a supply clerk, its more than likey she was driving a 5 ton, which, if u say, are in a rush to get out and are panicked, can fall and break something on the OVM box or the step itself.

And yes, frail people are allowed into the army and combat zones. I cant begin to tell you how many people who were overweight and out of shape, sick, ect, that were in my unit and constantly going on sick call. I was the only enlisted female in my unit who stayed under the army height weight requirements. The army isnt very picky who they will let in. Hell, in basic training, one of the females in my unit was legally blind without her glasses, yet they let her in, and another girl got by the height screen, she was only 4'9 when the minimum is 4'10. There were alos alot of fat chicks in my unit as well, plus people who constantly complained of this and that ailment.

Youre only thinking of combat arms units. In Combat arms and infantry, yes, they are alot harder on people, and frail people dont last. But we have to remeber, she was a supply clerk, in a support unit, they are more lax. Most supply units i saw, half the people couldnt pass the basic physical fitness test. Most were overweight. And they do get sent to combat zones too, because the pressure to stay hardcore in shape is alot less in rear eschelons.

Yes, it is very likely that Jessica lynch, a supply clerk, was indeed frail enough that even falling out of a vehicle could have broken her badly. Non combats units arent under the pressure to stay tough and lean like the mainline fighters.

We still don't KNOW exactly how and where those injuries came from. Like MS, I suspect rape. It's the one thing that explains a lot...the exaggerations, the "amnesia", etc.

"Media bias in the US is bad enough, but overseas, its frighteing. Cant begin to tell you how many Europeans implicitly believe thier media spin as the absolute truth"

Just read this. Thought it was funny because if you turned round US to UK, and Europeans to Americans, you'd pretty much summarise my view of it.

Before the Iraq war started poodle Blair was slow handclapped on a program where he spoke to opponents of the war. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bush seemed to lead a very charmed life coming up to the war. I don't remember reading about him being slow handclapped, or having protestors flinging themselves in front of his car, or protesting outside Rumsfields house or anything else...

That seems to indicate that his media image is far more manipulated than Blair's, i.e. the US media is far more biased than the UK media. (although perhaps as a result of that more people disbelieve it, although I've seen no evidence of that on these boards)

Not at all. You have just demonstrated how your media is just as biased.

The media over there tends to lean towards anti bias. So, yes, they will show the anti side more heavily than they will the pro. They will not give much air to the pro side at all. Its a different side of bias, thats all. Cant you see that?

The media over here has a pro bias. Thus, they show almost entirely pro-war sentiment, ignoring the big protests, college students who write essays opposing the war, ect. Those who oppose the war usually are shown in extremes, like stoner hippy college drop outs with nothing better to do, or borderline commies, to make it look like only freaks and wierdos oppose the war. The brush over the big protests day after day we had in seattle: The media hardly even covered ahy of that.In Europe, the do the same spin from the opposing angle: they show only protests, anti american and anti war sentiment, and do not show the people who support it, and when they do, make them look like super christian right wing nuts, outdated war mongers, or other riduculous characters.

I havent seen any media coverage here in the states about the normal, middle class people who stood outside on the corner holding up no iraq war signs in the pouring down rain every single sunday during and before the whole mess.

Thus, both medias are biased. Its simply two opposing biases. Its not a matter of bias toward a leader, but toward an issue, thus, while popular sentiment here favors the war and bush, popular sentiment over there is against it, and since blair is supporting bush, he is going to be shown less than positive, ignoring the many people, in both nations, who either support or oppose.

I have talked to people on both sides. Ive talked to several Brits who favor the war, just as I talk to several americans who oppose it. But to listen to either media, they dont even exist.

Bias. Two angles of opposition, both equally biased in different directions.

Nope, I think you're wrong about this. In this country although we have seen Blair getting heckled etc., we've also seen his speeches where he promotes war (without an anti-war commentary). I think both sides of the argument were shown in the British media, particularly when you look at the papers. The Sun were more right wing than Richard Perle, The Mirror were more left wing than Naom Chomsky.

I simply haven't seen any spectrum of opinion in the US from the mainstream media. It's either rabidly pro-war, or pro-war with reservations. Although correct me if I'm wrong.

Youre not getting it. Showing the Blair speeches still does not unbias it. they have to show his speeches, hes your leader. they cant ignore him even if they dont agree with him. The bias is in the slant, how its reported, and what gets MORE coverage: a pro or anti slant on things. European media coverage has been mostly anti. We have papers here that are more liberal, left wing, and anti as well. Even comic late night talk shows, before the war, cut jokes about it. I remeber back in Feb when Powell provided his "evidence" that Saddam was armed and dangerous, several comedians poked fun at the shoddy evidence, and made it look very silly. Papers publish anti letters and such.

the amount of coverage given to both views, and the slant and tone those opinions are treated, is what shapes public view mostly.

Well Skadi, that is truly a shame that the Army is in such condition.

In the 8 years I spent in the Army I never served with a bunch that didn't emphasize fitness. Not only did the command demand fitness, peer pressure among ourselves didn't make it enjoyable to be unfit. Drink excessively if you want, smoke like a stack, just be able to perform.

As far as breaking bones, I'm aware of how to do it, and I'm aware of the fact the femur is a very strong and difficult bone to break. Considering the company, I'd imagine a deuce, and if she broke a femur while driving a deuce, or a 5 ton for that matter, from falling equipment, staying in shape isn't the only discipline lacking. Loading equipment isn't haphazardly done.

What are we coming to?

Thomas Crown, there you go trying to inject common sense into the subject again.

What we're supposed to believe is that young Ms. Lynch opened the door and jumped out scared stumbling and falling all of 2 feet to the ground and that her mighty body weight of about 98 pounds caused her femur to break. Any other way..any other way than at the hands of the republican guard. These kind fellows whom a few years ago saw fit to gas a mass of their own countrymen for no more than test purposes and who put the people into the mass graves in the 1991 uprising would never ever hurt a young blonde female US soldier...but at the same time, US troops, under a microscope by the RedCross and the rest of the world routinely carry out torture in the camps in Cuba. Ya know I wish they would just put up some web cams so anyone could watch what happens there anytime they want. Oh OH!! my God, he's getting....uh...dinner...oh my God they are giving him food...!!Can you believe the inhumanity?

So, she fell out, broke her femur and was rescued by the Iraqi soldiers. I sure hope I never "fall" out of a vehicle. Wonder if it was that RPG that caused the accident or just swerving to miss tourist information station?

Thomas, I dont know when you were in, but have you actually seen what Clinton did to the army? It is a sad state of affairs. I was in during the Clinton years. Even when I first went in, during the last months of Bush SR, it was degenerating. Yes, fat asses that were out fo shape, as well as sick, whining, weaklings. there were so many people with physical profiles that got out of doing this and that.....

Both of our supply clerks were overweight and could not pass the female physical fitness test, which is ridiculously simple, and fail the weight standards repeatedly. I knew a couple of females who actually had to have thier rucksacks lightened or carried for them because of back problems. I knew of males who were morbidly obese who slipped through the cracks repeatedly. Yes, matters within the military have degenerated considerably, thanks to liberals and Clinton. Why do you think I got the hell out? Morale, discipline, and all things good and military were being replaced by forced sexual harrassment classes, sensitivity training, and the like.

Deuces are pretty much phased out, most deuces are used by reserve units. I saw very few deuces in use on active duty, they being replaced by 5 ton trucks. And yes, I have seen people injured getting out of them, especially if they are in a hurry. I seen a guy bust kis knees when his foot got caught on a seatbelt that was trapped on the floor, his foot caught as he went out, and he flipped forward, smashing his knees on his way out on the fender. Broken leg bones can happen.

As with all things degraded and military, failure to secure items is also common. Ive seen cammo nets dumped on the autobahn in Germany off the tops of trucks.

My conclusion: yes, more than likely, Jessicas injuries were caused before her capture. being a supply unit and all, she wasnt trained and fit for actualy real combat, the unit concentrating on supply runs and such, and more than likely her leg was busted in numerous ways. We dont know what she was riding in, or what happened to the vehicle, if it overturned or what.

Thomas, the state of the military and quality of soldiers when I had left was in a seriously sad state, and the military my dad joined and even the one i joined drastically suffered drawdowns and clintonizing to the point when i heard we were goin into Iraq, I actually was worried wed be made a joke of. Fortunately, it seems, the worst of liberal corruption had not touched as deeply the main fighting units: Infantry, armor, artilery, Cav, ect. Behind those lines, the military I remeber was a joke.

Info a potential reason she is having problems remembering is because she is young and
attractive.

Put that in your cerebellum and consider some consequences of her being captured by the enemy.

You see its one of the symptoms of Rape.

So before we start drawing conclusions as to what Iraqi Physicians are concerned about at the moment (there own people who are held as prisoners of war) why don't we wait before suggesting her memory loss is
the result of something funny.

Something funny indeed, like....our own govornment?

The idea of her being raped has come to my mind alot, my own experiences in the gulf have shown me the problems young European females can face in those countries. Its not totally out of the realm of impossibility, but I think, more than anything, unlikely. the media does ignore this fact, that her being white, had anything to do with it because race is a touchy subject. But its something one does not ignore. When youre white and in a country of middle easterners, you will attarct alot of attention, curiosity, and such, and there is a demand for white women over there, as evidenced by the massive slave trade in the middle east of Russian and other Eastern European women. (saw a couple when i was in saudi and bahrain, when I asked my commander about it, he said there was nothing we could do about it).

The suspicion lies in the timing, accounts from other POWS, as well as alot of other pieces that dont add up. Its just as likely the soldiers who captured her were afraid to lay a hand on her. They didnt brutally abuse the other POWs in captivity, they were more than likely not going to abuse her for fear of reprisal, being caught, even some, who deep down truly folloowed the koran, were afraid of angering allah by committing such an act, which is very much condemned in the koran.

Originally posted by Toltec
Info a potential reason she is having problems remembering is because she is young and
attractive.

Put that in your cerebellum and consider some consequences of her being captured by the enemy.

You see its one of the symptoms of Rape.

So before we start drawing conclusions as to what Iraqi Physicians are concerned about at the moment (there own people who are held as prisoners of war) why don't we wait before suggesting her memory loss is
the result of something funny.

You're right, I'm sorry. It's just I've never raped anyone. Tell me, what is it like?

Gee, call me old fashion. I need to get in with the hip crowd.

Amnesia (Selective or general, although selective is more common) is a common mental defence mechanism to help a victim survive mentally both during and after a severely traumatic experience.

LOL info. Its not that hard to rape people, really, just fix the mindset in your mind that the good old cavemen days of taking mates by force shoudl be revived, convince yourself women really do fall in love with thier rapists later, and loom at them as weak inferior blobs of flesh there simply to breed your spawn and wash your laundry, and u too can become a rapist!

You're right, I'm sorry. It's just I've never raped anyone. Tell me, what is it like? Posted by Info

Alright, that is f*cking sick.

Perhaps this is the best time for info to be shown the door?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
LOL info. Its not that hard to rape people, really, just fix the mindset in your mind that the good old cavemen days of taking mates by force shoudl be revived, convince yourself women really do fall in love with thier rapists later, and loom at them as weak inferior blobs of flesh there simply to breed your spawn and wash your laundry, and u too can become a rapist!

LOL, I don't know. I still don't think I could do something like that. I think it would be much nicer and worth wild to earn it.

1. The Iraqis who fought for Saddam Hussein more than likely secular as far as religious beliefs.

2. If memory serves all others with her are dead.

3. Gang rape is well known to cause amnesia.

I am not trying to say I know this to be the truth what I am saying is that there is no reason to treat her memory loss as a joke

I am not trying to say I know this to be the truth what I am saying is that there is no reason to treat her memory loss as a joke Posted by TolTec

Agreed