It's official: Iran has nukes

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Yes...under the NPT...Iran has the right to enrich Uranium...to Reactor Grade ONLY. Not to Weapons Grade.

Reactor grade, medical grade, anything really as long as they don't to weapons grade, which is kind of silly because you can label it weapons grade over 20% but in reality you need 90% or higher.

Since Iran can purchase Reactor Grade Uranium for a tiny fraction of the money that it takes to build over 10,000 centrifuges and since using this many centrifuges is not consistent with enriching Uranium to Reactor Grade...it is obvious of their use.

Yes, it is very obvious. To people that don't want to see, and can't see, that there are other reasons for enriching uranium.

I agree that Iran has not currently built a Bomb but then it is the Weapons Grade Fuel that is hard to get not the actual design of an old style Fission Bomb.

That's true. That's why I'm glad there are no reliable intelligence reports stating that they are enriching to the levels needed. If you really wanted a bomb, you could go buy one from Israel. They have tried to sell them before.

As far as the Wipe Israel off the map...Irans Leader has infact said this and has been quoted as saying it. On another post several ATS Members listed many sources of his quoted words.

All the sources used the same mistranslation. It was retracted.

reply to post by superman2012


The actions of Israel or Iran would not be my concern if it were not the fact that the Middle East is home to the largest oil reserves on Earth. Because of this both countries actions are everyones concern. I would be only too happy if the U.S. Military were forced to release some of the Ultra-Advanced Energy Generation Tech. it is privvy to and we all could let the whole Middle East continue their Thousands of Years old fight.

But there is no getting away from certain realities. Iran is a threat...there is no doubt in the vast majority of World Leaders as well as the countries in the Middle East. The problems that need adressing are about miscommunication of intent.

Iran is at a crossroads where if it should take the wrong turn it could spell disaster for the region and Iran. These are the stakes and Iran is playing a VERY dangerous game of Nuclear brinksmanship with a Superpower.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

But there is no getting away from certain realities. Iran is a threat...there is no doubt in the vast majority of World Leaders as well as the countries in the Middle East. The problems that need adressing are about miscommunication of intent.

How is Iran a threat? I have shown you, with no rebuttal from you, that as it stands right now, Iran is not doing anything wrong (as far as proof of it goes).

As far as proved oil reserves, Saudi Arabia is #1, Venezuela #2, Canada #3, Iran #4, Iraq #5, Kuwait #6.
The US does not need to rely on the ME.

reply to post by superman2012


I have been listing the ways Iran is a threat on this topic for days. I really can't believe that you do not veiw it so.

As for the countries you list such as Canada...there is a big difference between having Tar Sands and underground Seas of Light Sweet Crude.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


You have been listing things, but, most are false and none have proven what you claim, to me anyways. I have listed what you have claimed and showed you that your claims in this thread are false, or unproven.

If you are scared of Iran and BELIEVE they are going to build nukes and attack Israel et al., then that is fine. That is your opinion and you are certainly allowed to express that!

reply to post by superman2012


Uh...I have PROVED that Iran has broken the NPT.

Iran itself has admitted to building secret underground Nuclear Facilities.

Iran has kicked out International Nuiclear Site observers.

Iran has built 10,000 unsanctioned...unwatched and at one time secret Centrifuges.

You ca believe whatever you wish but to think that Iran is some type of victim in all this is laughable.

Split Infinity

Superman, I don't know if you are Iranian, but don't take this personally. Pretty much everyone understands that Iranian leadership is dangerous. A few quotes.

On Israel's 60th birthday, Ahmadinejad said:


Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken. Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation."[13]

Ahmadinejad also stated that Israel "has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese." Later, he said: "The Zionist regime is dying," and "The criminals imagine that by holding celebrations (...) they can save the Zionist regime from death." Ahmadinejad also stated that "They should know that regional nations hate this fake and criminal regime and if the smallest and briefest chance is given to regional nations they will destroy (it)".[14]

In his address to the 2008 United Nations General Assembly, Ahmadinejad said that "today the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse."[15]


August 2012, at an annual protest against the existence of Israel,[20] Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that "the very existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to humanity" and that "the Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumor. Even if one cell of them is left in one inch of (Palestinian) land, in the future this story (of Israel's existence) will repeat."[21] Ahmadinejad also said that Israel would soon be finished off, and that “the nations of the region will soon finish off the usurper Zionists in the Palestinian land".[20] Ahmadinejad added that "it is dangerous if even 10% of the territory is given to the Zionists." Ahmadinejad also said, "The western powers cannot tolerate criticism of the Zionist regime. They feel compelled to defend it."[22]

On 11 December 2006, at the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust," a gathering of Holocaust deniers in Tehran, Ahmadinejad said: "Thanks to people's wishes and God's will the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is [headed] downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want. The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom."[12]

OK, so sum it up. Ahmadinejad wants to wipe out Israel, and whether you call it the Zionist regime or Israel, he means that country called Israel. We all know it. He sees the Jews as a cancerous tumor ins the Middle East. The nutball denies the Holocaust, and tries to rationalize it...

The guy is deluded. No, I do not believe it is safe for him to have a nuclear weapon, because he is deluded. I do believe he will use a weapon because the guy is deluded, and God only knows what he actually believes and doesn't tell the media.

Please stop arguing for Iran and Ahmadenejad having nuclear capability because other countries do.

reply to post by BSFC123


Ok, I can admit the guy does not like Israel...at all. But, many countries don't like the US (north korea as a major one and they have nukes) and they haven't bombed them.

Would you bomb a country with a nuke, knowing full well, there would be nuclear retaliation? If so, you would be the only one.

Please stop arguing for Iran and Ahmadenejad having nuclear capability because other countries do.

You might want to read this thread again. Have I ever said, "they should because other countries do"?
You obviously aren't following the arguments on here...that's ok though, most people don't and just believe everything the talking box in their living room tells them to believe. I don't judge for that.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by superman2012

 

Uh...I have PROVED that Iran has broken the NPT.

Iran itself has admitted to building secret underground Nuclear Facilities.

Iran has kicked out International Nuiclear Site observers.

Iran has built 10,000 unsanctioned...unwatched and at one time secret Centrifuges.

You ca believe whatever you wish but to think that Iran is some type of victim in all this is laughable.

Split Infinity

No country has followed the NPT to the letter. Iran is just being way more suspect.

None of what you have listed above, even comes close to proving the ridiculous title of this thread. I'm surprised the title isn't changed yet by a mod to the exact title of the quoted article.

The U.S. State Department considers Iran the world's "most active state sponsor of terrorism." U.S. officials say Iran provides funding, weapons, training, and sanctuary to numerous terrorist groups--most notably in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lebanon--posing a security concern to the international community. Iran's declarations that it has successfully enriched uranium and developed new missile technology have heightened alarm in the United States and other countries that the Islamic Republic might transfer weapons of mass destruction (PDF) to militants or armed groups. Iran's leaders, who deny allegations they support terrorism (DerSpiegel), assert their rights under an international treaty to pursue nuclear power and insist their efforts are for peaceful purposes. But the international community remains unconvinced, imposing a growing list of sanctions against Tehran. Financial pressure has been applied by the UN Security Council, the European Union, international financial bodies, and a number of individual countries, including the United States.

From the COuncil on Foreign Relations site
www.cfr.org...

reply to post by superman2012


Again North Korea has not signed the NPT. Iran did because if it did not it would not have been allowed to purchase Russian Nuclear Tech. and purchase Russian Reactor Fuel.

It signed then broke the NPT. There will be consequences.

IF...Iran decides to assemble an Old Style Fission Bomb...and it does have enough Weapons Grade Fuel now for one or two...and as I stated the tech. involved in the construction of say a Bullet style weapon...this is when a Fission Bomb uses a certain amount of Uranium and has inside it a barrel that shoots a Bullet of Uranium that once hits and enters the larger amount of Uranium creates critical mass and thus a reaction.

There are two other viable Fission Bomb designs and the two that use Plutonium are either designed with a ball of Uranium that is forced into implosion by surrounding this ball with tiles of explosive. This explosive tiles are all independently wired and in order for implosion to occur the tiles must all detonate at once which is tricky given different wire lengths mean different detonation times. Precise calculations must be used.

There is also a Fired Bullet of Plutonium very much like the Bullet of Uranium but because Plutonium is used instead of Uranium a Higher Velocity must be obtained by that Plutonium Bullet. Thus the Bomb must be long to accomidate a long Barrel to shoot and obtain a higher velocity by the Plutonium Bullet.

The U.S. in 1945 used a Uraniun Bullet and Barrel Design called Little Boy. The Plutonium Implosion Bomb was named Fat Man. The U.S. did not develop the Bullet Barrel Plutonium device as it would be too long for use in being dropped from a B-29.

My point is this is common knowledge of how such a weapon is to be designed and built...it is not all that difficult. The thing that is difficult is getting the Uranium or Plutonium at Weapons Grade Enrichment to place in the bombs. Iran has enough Weapons Grade Uranium to do this for one or two bombs.

This is why they broke the NPT in order to get this amount of Enriched Uranium...building the actual Bomb itself is an afterthought.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by BSFC123
The U.S. State Department considers Iran the world's "most active state sponsor of terrorism." U.S. officials say Iran provides funding, weapons, training, and sanctuary to numerous terrorist groups--most notably in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lebanon--posing a security concern to the international community. Iran's declarations that it has successfully enriched uranium and developed new missile technology have heightened alarm in the United States and other countries that the Islamic Republic might transfer weapons of mass destruction (PDF) to militants or armed groups. Iran's leaders, who deny allegations they support terrorism (DerSpiegel), assert their rights under an international treaty to pursue nuclear power and insist their efforts are for peaceful purposes. But the international community remains unconvinced, imposing a growing list of sanctions against Tehran. Financial pressure has been applied by the UN Security Council, the European Union, international financial bodies, and a number of individual countries, including the United States.

From the COuncil on Foreign Relations site
www.cfr.org...

Perhaps they should look within, do some self reflection to see who is the greatest sponsor of State terrorism.

P

reply to post by BSFC123

The U.S. State Department considers Iran the world's "most active state sponsor of terrorism."

While the rest of the world says it is the US government that is the most active. For God's sake, the FSA were allowed to solicit for public donations in the US...and they had Al-Queda in their ranks...the same group that was held responsible for the attacks on 9/11. Iran is not an angelic country by any means, but, talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Again North Korea has not signed the NPT. Iran did because if it did not it would not have been allowed to purchase Russian Nuclear Tech. and purchase Russian Reactor Fuel.

So because Iran has signed the NPT they are more likely to use a nuclear bomb, should they develop one? I'm not following that logic at all.

reply to post by superman2012


As I have stated...I also do not believe that Iran has been so foolish as to assemble a Nuclear Weapon...but they have everything they need to put a few together. As I stated...building a Fission Bomb is not all that hard...it's all about the FUEL!

Iran now has the fuel.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


They had it before...anyone with enrichment facilities can build a dirty bomb with LEU.

The fissile uranium in nuclear weapons usually contains 85% or more of 235U known as weapon(s)-grade, though for a crude, inefficient weapon 20% is sufficient (called weapon(s)-usable)

They do not have 85% or more.

reply to post by superman2012


I do not debate this.

Even though Iran has not assembled a Nuke it can. Becaue it has the fuel it is not hard.

Should Iran actually assemble a Nuke it is easy to assume it will use the knowledge of existance of their having such a weapon as a way to intimidate other nations. This is very much in line with the Iranian Leaderships desire to once again be a World Power as Persia was in ancient times. There constant references to Persia supports this.

The MOMENT that Iran does this is the moment they seal their fate. The U.S. will not allow Iran to use Nuclear Blackmail. This is what I worry about.

It is better that this problem is dealt with now before Iran threatens others with a Nuke and it will. It has even refered to it. It has also promised various Terrorist Orgs. in Syria that it will find a way to start an asymetrical war with Israel as Iran is so good at this as it's activities in Iraq and Afghanistan have shown.

Should this problem not be dealt with now and allowed to develop to the point I have described then you can 100% COUNT on some form of U.S. Military response. That's just how it is.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Your argument is hinged on a huge bias against Iran, and quite a few "what ifs" and "mights". I don't know your background and why you are so against Iran, but, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs, and that is all you are arguing about, your belief that Iran may do this.

I just think the opposite of you on this issue. No harm. I'm sorry for trying to convince you that your beliefs were wrong, I didn't realize until this point that that is what you were arguing for. Please accept my apology.

reply to post by superman2012


You are entitled to your beliefs as well but in this case these things I speak of are not my beliefs. They are observations based on observing the actions of Iran by many.

I really hope you are right. But unfortunately...hope very rarely becomes reality.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity



You always refer to these awesome, world-domineering, total destruction weapon systems that the U.S. supposedly have.

Why hasn't the U.S. already used them on their main opponent, Russia, yet but instead choose to encircle the Ruskis with anti-missile batteries?


If Iran want nuclear warheads, let them. Israel has them, why not Iran?
Surely Israel has shown to be more fanatical than their Iranian counterparts?


Every country should be allowed to determine their own fate. Turkey wants nukes? Let 'em. Syria wants nukes? Let 'em.

A nuclear warhead is a deterrent more than an actual asset that will be utilized by a military.

Pakistan and N. Korea have nukes. Why haven't they used them? Because they aren't stupid.

He who uses an atom bomb will face International Retribution.