MoD: Trident submarines cannot be moved from Scotland to Plymouth

Where would these subs go, I wonder if the ascension Islands would make a good base or event the Falklands or South Georgia or would these be to far away from the UK I can't see anything like war occurring with Scotland this day in age but never say never I suppose anyone got any Ideas on a location (probable) or can anyone see a relocation from Plymouth ?

The MoD has revealed that the safety arrangements for Devonport do not permit the presence of submarines carrying Trident nuclear warheads. The MoD's safety experts are not considering changing that.

The problem is that the dockyard is in a densely populated area and, if there were an accident, thousands of people would be at risk. The worst accident scenario envisaged by the MoD would kill up to 11,000 people in Plymouth and would not meet the official criteria for what is acceptable, according to a new report.

The Scottish government, run by the Scottish National party, has said it would eject nuclear weapons from the Faslane submarine base on the Clyde as soon as possible after Scotland became independent. A referendum on independence is due to be held in the autumn of 2014.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Well nuclear weapons are not permitted in the southern atlantic ocean area, but I'm sure the MoD already has a second base somewhere as it would seem silly just to have one place as such a juicy target

And if the worst case scenario happened in Faslane how many people do you think would be effected there....probably around the same, not to mention fall out across Scotland......

Here's the deal, when we get independence, we get to keep Trident, we also get to keep our oil and gas resources, our lovely Fresh and abundant Water supplies, and our Freedom..... And if England doesn't like it, we send Tridents full Arsenal over the border....Airborne and Armed....How would you like them Apples...


I have a Friend who worked on these Subs when they were in for either a refit or some work done after Trials.....he heard stories of Missiles going Hot whilst on the subs.....Not armed, (Hot is a term for readiness to Launch i believe)...

I have seen some pics of him on the subs...those fish are huge...

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Well I agree with Scotland getting independence they seem to work better than the English since they have had more say over their own running of Scotland.....

Look at my Surname Anderson and you will see where I hail from not just your average Brit coy,

and you should know as well as I do that there is no way in hell that England would give the Trident over before any vote is commenced I dare say those Subs will be out of port.

I can't see any war happening with Scotland but anything can happen

reply to post by Maxatoria


I never new that I dare say they are though, and yeah I agree there must be somewhere else other than One big bulls eye with all the eggs in the basket any Ideas on where ?

reply to post by ANDERSON23

This is where independence becomes interesting.....Who says they are England's weapons to keep....possession is 9/10ths of the law last time i looked....



What a bargaining chip we have though...hey, they get to keep London and all the trillions of dollars debt.....We get to decide whether they get it in one piece.....

They have mentioned before that it would be a slow transition to a move to a new location that would need to be built.

The fact is Scotland would end up renting us Clyde. I'd hazard a guess that after any independent votes took place or won they wont care any more. Promise removal, get the votes, rent to the UK and get £££.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by ANDERSON23

 

This is where independence becomes interesting.....Who says they are England's weapons to keep....possession is 9/10ths of the law last time i looked....

What a bargaining chip we have though...hey, they get to keep London and all the trillions of dollars debt.....We get to decide whether they get it in one piece.....

Its already been stated that such things would be proportional split. Or that's the SNP proposal, I doubt it would be so favourable, Bound to be deals made. They have stated a lot of false things, like entry to the EU, salmond wasted lots of tax payers money on the EU advice case.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


hahaha I like your logic,

But in reality they are still the property of the MoD and you can include all Arm's and ammo to count Scotland would have to start from scratch and Convert the Armed forces over to what ever they wish but that would be a hefty bill to sit with as they would have to acquire all the Supplies and so forth talk about a head ache

and an interesting note I used to do Retail security and theft is only theft if you don't intend to bring it back in the same condition

Originally posted by ANDERSON23
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

hahaha I like your logic,

But in reality they are still the property of the MoD and you can include all Arm's and ammo to count Scotland would have to start from scratch and Convert the Armed forces over to what ever they wish but that would be a hefty bill to sit with as they would have to acquire all the Supplies and so forth talk about a head ache

and an interesting note I used to do Retail security and theft is only theft if you don't intend to bring it back in the same condition

edit on 7-1-2013 by ANDERSON23 because: (no reason given)

Yeah sort of, Scotland should be entitled proportionally to all wings of the forces. There have already been plans to downsize the armed services and I believe the plans drawn up for an independent Scottish force aren't too different.

But as I said I cant see it being so favorable for the Scottish. The scotts will be tight on money, deals will be made.

Rightly so, such actions wont be cheap, a headache it would be.

I see no advantage too Scotland dividing but that's a separate discussion.

reply to post by ANDERSON23


It does raise an interesting dilemma on where a new base could be located. Because, lets face it, regardless of what the SNP wish, they are not going to be given the keys to one of the shiny new Astute class subs. So this means a deep water base is located somewhere in the rest of the UK, preferably on the Atlantic side.

Obvious location would be Northern Ireland but i can't see that happening for obvious reasons! How about Isle of Man of even Lundy Island?

Plenty of locations in Eastern UK but probably not the best side for our Sub fleet to be based. Plus it is more populated, so the "Plymouth factor" comes into play.

reply to post by tdk84


I suppose thats where all the hand shakes and nods come into it

It would be a weird sights for us all if Scotland did become independent and they would be tight for money but they do have access to Resources if I'm not mistaken how many of the worlds big players would be Quick to jump on that one.

As for the Subs that is a head ache in itself to relocate I don't think we got many places deep enough for them either and the channel Islands are close to France so they would probably moan

reply to post by Flavian


Yeah I see what you are saying there, I think if push comes to shove money would be poured into moving some populace from Plymouth although that seems slight chance.

Originally posted by ANDERSON23
reply to post by tdk84

 

It would be a weird sights for us all if Scotland did become independent and they would be tight for money but they do have access to Resources if I'm not mistaken how many of the worlds big players would be Quick to jump on that one.

And here lies the problem, we have discussed things should be proportionally split, but that also means the national debt. For a country so small that would be a ridiculous amount.

Scotland does have its oil resource but again I cant see that going as favourably as Scotland in-vision, there are so many factors. One huge issue there is the fall in output in the last year alone.

Actually the biggest issue with having to reapply to the E.U. would mean Scottish oil being included as "common resource" meaning tax profits flowing to Brussels. Why isnt that happening now? The UK has enough political clout to tell them where to stuff it, an independent Scotland wont.

Just imagine what would happen to the Scottish ship building business thats kept so well oiled by the Royal Navy.

I can only see bad things from a separation.

reply to post by tdk84


It would essentially cripple their economy before it starts and Scotland wouldn't necessarily apply to the EU may make a claim to IMF if there is any funds left there but like I said I suppose that would be where all the handshakes and Nods come in, It would be shocking if they made an example out of us but that would take many years to even get a footing if they partake in the Debt if they go independent are they Obliged to take that on as they were not responsible for the Debt being accumulated in the 1st place I can see court battles ahead.

And they would somehow have to build their own Navy up if they had the Money for doing so so there is potential for economy boost as they would be in sole control of their country's well being

Do you know of any bases capable to take the Subs on ?

Originally posted by ANDERSON23
reply to post by tdk84

 

It would essentially cripple their economy before it starts and Scotland wouldn't necessarily apply to the EU may make a claim to IMF if there is any funds left there but like I said I suppose that would be where all the handshakes and Nods come in, It would be shocking if they made an example out of us but that would take many years to even get a footing if they partake in the Debt if they go independent are they Obliged to take that on as they were not responsible for the Debt being accumulated in the 1st place I can see court battles ahead.

And they would somehow have to build their own Navy up if they had the Money for doing so so there is potential for economy boost as they would be in sole control of their country's well being

Do you know of any bases capable to take the Subs on ?

edit on 7-1-2013 by ANDERSON23 because: (no reason given)

Yeah I agree, I'm not Scottish but I really hate the idea of them leaving, we are far stronger together, both of us. I think the majority of Scotland agrees but on the off chance they leave, there will be a financial bite they will have to overcome. Either way I cant see them doing it alone, they will get help from the rest of the UK, you cant have a country with such close borders to fail as it will inevitably effect the rest of us. A strong bond will remain.

in terms of a base to take the subs... I dont think there is anywhere? I read before that Clyde would just be "rented" off Scotland like other overseas bases in the short term. In the longer term obviously construction of somewhere new would take place, this would take as long as 10 years.

The Ministry of Defence basically said that moving the subs to the south would be easy without much fuss but its in fact a second base the Royal Naval Armaments Depot at Coulport which is the issue. This is basically the storage bunkers of the armaments and unique to the UK, highly specialised etc. (the decade build).

I guess this is good news for Scotland as we would have no choice for it to stay there giving Scotland bargaining power for debt and things of that ilk.

The MOD also brought up the use of “treaty ports”, basically this has all happened before with Ireland so the model is in place. it took from 1922 till the end of the second world war for a full clear out of naval ports.

reply to post by tdk84


let them have it, the romans had the right idea block em out, the scots have no rights to oil cause we already sold them to america, lol

They could re-open up Portland.

Originally posted by Maxatoria
Well nuclear weapons are not permitted in the southern atlantic ocean area, but I'm sure the MoD already has a second base somewhere as it would seem silly just to have one place as such a juicy target

Well the UK has had Nuclear Submarines patrolling the Falkland Islands loads of times, so either we don't care about those rules or they do not exist.

reply to post by Soloprotocol


I think you'd be sadly mistaken if you think Scotland will just get to walk away without taking on its fair share of the debt burden. There will be no independance deal that does not involve the Scots absorbing some of the national debt and quite rightly so, as a lot of that money has been spent on Scotland. I won't mention the welfare bill.