Assad historical speech (06/01/2013) The TRUTH speaks

reply to post by paraphi


To add to what you call the Syrian people banding together, why don't you check out this MSM video from Syria which shows the Syrian people banding together (In support of their president). You might even see how good the Syrian currency is fairing across the Middle East at the end of the video..

reply to post by Fichorka

Who the f*** are you to decide the fate of Syria and it's people? Just Shut the F*** UP because you sound like a paid shill.

I wonder if all your responses are that intelligent.

We all have different opinions and we should all show mutual respect for each other and for the facts. The facts (not an opinion) show that Assad has committed crimes against humanity and that he does not have the support of the majority.

If you want to say that the fate of Assad and Syria should be decided by the Syrian people then I for one agree with you, I do believe that the people of Syria have the right to self-determination. That being said however I also believe that we have a moral obligation assist these people if they wish us to do so in the name of removing a tyrant who could have prevented this war if he stood down form office 18 months ago.

Originally posted by Fichorka
Stop playing your stupid little games paraphi! We have already agreed that We have no say whether Assad stays in power or not. Who the f*** are you to decide the fate of Syria and it's people? Just Shut the F*** UP because you sound like a paid shill.

Grow up. If you do not have the ability to debate in a civil manner, or argue your position without reverting to puerile behaviour and insults then that's your problem and not mine.

I am not deciding the fate of the Syrians and a bit lost where you invented that fantasy. I am saying that it is the Syrians who are seeking the removal of the repressive Assad dictatorship. It is my position based on what I have seen and heard. In the past people have risen up to remove their oppressors, so why is this different?

If you just want a discussion where everyone agrees with your worldview then you want a boring world. "We have already agreed..."

Regards

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Fichorka

 

We all have different opinions and we should all show mutual respect for each other and for the facts. The facts (not an opinion) show that Assad has committed crimes against humanity and that he does not have the support of the majority.

Show me those facts? I think your just pushing your opinion.

If you want to say that the fate of Assad and Syria should be decided by the Syrian people then I for one agree with you, I do believe that the people of Syria have the right to self-determination. That being said however I also believe that we have a moral obligation assist these people if they wish us to do so in the name of removing a tyrant who could have prevented this war if he stood down form office 18 months ago.

See here we go again.. More BS. You want to talk about self-determination? Then why is it that the Syrian people cannot choose which leaders they want? Europe and other countries have already determined that for them. Again show me the facts that state the Syrian people do not support their President? With that, how is sendin convicted criminals from Saudi prisons, Islamic Extremists from Libya and other parts of the ME helping the Syrians?

You come jabbering your crap without backing up one part of your post and expect people to just buy it.. What facts are you using because I can use facts to counter everything you just said. One fact I have was a survey from Germany and it states that 95% of the opposition in Syria are foreign fighters...

Originally posted by paraphi
It is my position based on what I have seen and heard.

Well give us something to work with.. Because its one thing to base your position off what you have seen and heard, its another to back it up and show us why you are correct. I agree that Assad is no better than the people he is fighting, so what you preset will most likely be spot on.. The problem I'm having is that the uprising in Syria has been hijacked and if Assad is ousted, Syria is going to fall to Islamic extremists. They simply aren't going to pack their weapons and leave that country.

reply to post by DarknStormy



Fair enough, facts regarding Assad committing Crime Against Humanity

Secondly please understand what I am saying, I believe that it is the right of the Syrian people to decide the fate of their nation independent form the actions of any foreign states however should they request the assistance of a foreign state to achieve this goal then we have a moral obligation to assist them.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

13th October, 2012
There also appears to be a cultural clash between non-Arab Muslims from Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Balkans and Chechnya on the one hand, and Arabs from Syria, Libya, Tunisia and Jordan on the other, over the exploitation of sex slaves.

Some Islamists consider these women to be spoils of war, especially the wives and daughters of regime supporters, but local fighters are more apprehensive about the issue. Dozens of women have reportedly been sexually assaulted.

Doesn't sound like Assad to me.

Here is an interesting website that may answer a few more questions and it seems as though everything is backed with factual evidence concerning Syria, the Hama masscre in 82 and a load of other issues.

Raw footage from Syria

The Syrian Diary documentary also contains an interview with a former RSA terrorist who explain the terrorists would enter peaceful neighborhoods and indiscriminately kill people, including children in their sleep and then film the massacre to blame the Syrian regime for it.

This is practically the same thing I’ve been saying right from the start but it’s always good to have it confirmed from the horse’s mouth.An interesting revelation made by the documentary is that many mercenaries fighting alongside the FSA are drugged. They are doped to not feel pain, remorse or compassion. Drugs withdraw them from reality and make them commit horrendous crimes without having second thoughts about them. Drugs make them compliant so they won’t hesitate to even kill their friends or families when told to do so.

It would also seem that a good deal of recruited mercenaries joined the Fake Syrian Army for the thrill of always having someone to rape. The reports say that the FSA members rape absolutely everyone – men, women, children, even old people. No one is spared and that pushes civilians into resorting to such radical measures as buying hand grenades so when the FSA come, they could kill themselves to save themselves from endless rape before being killed anyway.

Now if you are serious about getting the truth out of Syria and what has been happening, I suggest you watch the video which is in the link. If you cannot watch that and see the truth in Syria, then I will stop wasting yours and my time trying to show you also. You cannot deny firsthand accounts from the people who are living through this war.

It doesn't matter what we think the Syrians want from us, the truth is they want their peaceful country back, remembering Syria was a peaceful country before the insurgency.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
We all have different opinions and we should all show mutual respect for each other and for the facts. The facts (not an opinion) show that Assad has committed crimes against humanity and that he does not have the support of the majority.

I can name houndreds of leaders who lack the support of the majority. Many of those leaders are US allies, including Italy, who's PM (Mario Monti) is not democratically elected. Should we go arm the terrorists in Italy because of that? NO! Because it's the problem of Italy.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
If you want to say that the fate of Assad and Syria should be decided by the Syrian people then I for one agree with you, I do believe that the people of Syria have the right to self-determination. That being said however I also believe that we have a moral obligation assist these people if they wish us to do so in the name of removing a tyrant who could have prevented this war if he stood down form office 18 months ago.

Cut the crap! How exactly would you help them? By sending even more weapons to terrorists???

reply to post by Fichorka


I wouldn't even bother with people like this, they only look at whats been force fed to them and even when facts are thrown at them they turn a blind eye and just forget they even were presented with them. But as long as they are happy supporting the Murder, Rape and Pillage of children, women and innocent men in Syria, I guess they have a valid reason to back their terrorrist heroes.

Cheers!

What scary times we live in. Alex is a bug!

[spam link removed]

reply to post by Fichorka


So what do you think should be done, what is your solution to the problems in Syria, do you think that all external states who seek to influence the outcome of this civil war (including Russia) should just leave them all alone to fight it out for themselves even if that means that we could see another massacre worse than that of the Hama massacre in the 1980’s.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by Fichorka

 

So what do you think should be done, what is your solution to the problems in Syria, do you think that all external states who seek to influence the outcome of this civil war (including Russia) should just leave them all alone to fight it out for themselves even if that means that we could see another massacre worse than that of the Hama massacre in the 1980’s.

So you think sending in weapons to known extremist groups who are terrorising innocent people through rape, torture and even murder isn't worse than the Hama massacre? Lets go through this again.

The documents include the orders which have been issued to grant amnesty to criminals from Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, Somalia, Kuwait, Palestine, Afghanistan and Sudan - who had been waiting in the death row in Saudi jails - in return for joining the terrorist war on the Syrian government.

According to the document, the Saudi Interior Ministry has conceded to pardon these people who have been sentenced to death on charges of drug trafficking, murder and rape after they accepted to go under military trainings and be sent to Syria to help terrorist groups and the FSA in the war on President Assad.

Families of the convicts do not have the right to leave Saudi Arabia, but they receive monthly salaries from the Al Saud regime. The regime has taken the families hostage to make sure that the criminals remain loyal to their missions and plots in Syria. Pardoning inmates in return for terrorist operations in Syria is not confined to Saudi Arabia, and Qatar and some other Persian Gulf states have followed suit.

Hama massacre you say? Take a look at what these parasites are sending across the border. But with that, lets taker a look at what Saudi Arabia are guilty of compared to Assad.

Criminal law punishments in Saudi Arabia include public beheading, stoning, amputation and lashing. Serious criminal offences include not only internationally recognized crimes such as murder, rape, theft and robbery, but also apostasy, adultery, witchcraft and sorcery. In addition to the regular police force, Saudi Arabia has a secret police, the Mabahith, and "religious" police, the Mutawa. The latter enforces Islamic social and moral norms.

This is the country signing the paychecks of the FSA and their extremist buddies. Now when you hear of rape and murder in Syria, don't you think that these guys could be held accountable considering they are pardoning the very a/holes that have been convicted of those crimes...

Western-based human rights organizations, such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, have criticized the activities of both the Mubahith and the Mutawa, as well as a number of other aspects of human rights in Saudi Arabia. These include the number of executions, the range of offences which are subject to the death penalty, the lack of safeguards for the accused in the criminal justice system, the treatment of homosexuals, the use of torture, the lack of religious freedom, and the highly disadvantaged position of women.

Here we have one dictatorship fighting against another alleged dictatorship who have done squat compared to the Saudis. Why aren't we in Saudi Arabia tearing that country to shreds? Well, even you can answer that quiet easily. Now if you understnd what I just showed you, it isn't Assad who is going to cause a Hama massacre. You can keep believing the crap you see on TV or even in your newspaper tommorow morning but the truth is this, Foreign countries are sending convicted, alleged, possibly criminals/terrorists to Syria. When you put those together (and that is only a few btw) you find that the threat is not coming from Assad, but the very groups coming from other countries..

The funny thing is I can give you more which has come from Lebanon. The prick in the video was very fast to play this down in his country but it doesn't matter what he does, he has been busted speaking with a rebel in Syria and with that, Saudi Arabia is at the centre again.



Now I'm not going to say this is translated properly because I don't know for sure, but it seems someone from Lebenese Parliament is also sending weapons into Syria.. This isn't a civil war, this is an invasion.

reply to post by paraphi


Oh please. Assad is no different than any other democratic dictator put into power by Western interests.

The middle east is one big banana republic.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by RizeorDie

 

This thread is HILARIOUS!!! Only a communist or a moron could come to the conclusion you've just proffered.

Firstly, as per all regional politics, especially in the Islamic world, Al-Assad is from a minority group - the Alawites. The Alawites are regarded by Sunni orthodox thinkers as heretics. Secondly, Al Assad stuffs his government, military and cabinet with Alawis, excluding Sunnis from positions of power. You think that sits well with them??

That is really all that needs to be said to debunk the absurd lie that he is a "popular" leader in Syria. He is almost universally hated. The only groups that care to support him are groups which receive Alawi support i.e. non-Sunni sects, such as the small Druze and Shia communities. But, as you can see from Syrias demographics, the vast majority - 3 quarters of the population - are Sunni. They don't like being kept out of government and having their interests trodden upon by secularist-socialist atheists who form close ties with Shia Iran.

This thread is absurd. It's deafeningly propagandic, and could only possibly have an effect on those who know absolutely nothing about the politics in the region.

edit on 7-1-2013 by dontreally because: (no reason given)

It could only influence people who don't understand the situation in Iran? So you're saying it's going to influence 99% of the USA?!!!

This might be absurd -- but it's another voice. The Sunni's think someone in another religion is a heretic -- isn't that the ONE THING everyone in the USA is aware of in the Middle East -- everyone NOT of your persuasion is a heretic (they are probably not this bad actually, just the radicals).

secularist-socialist atheists

You say that like it's a BAD thing. Wouldn't we all rather be in Sweden?

Sweedens a running joke amongst academics.

reply to post by DarknStormy


You would be laughed out of any political science classroom. To think that you can acknowledge the cronyism (or have you even acknowledged it!?) Assad shows for Alawis - who fill up most of the positions in the Syrian military and the Syrian parliament - and yet insist that the 75% Sunni majority of the country "supports" Assad, is enough evidence to show how haywire your thinking is.

Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

You would be laughed out of any political science classroom. To think that you can acknowledge the cronyism (or have you even acknowledged it!?) Assad shows for Alawis - who fill up most of the positions in the Syrian military and the Syrian parliament - and yet insist that the 75% Sunni majority of the country "supports" Assad, is enough evidence to show how haywire your thinking is.

Your being laughed at here acknowledging that fighters swarming in from foreign countries are serving the best interests of the Syrian people. You cannot even acknowledge that terrorists are operating in Syria. You cannot acknowledge that those terrorists are slaughtering innocent civilians and then blaming the government. You support terrorism and the rape and murder of innocent women and children. So does your "Political science classrooms".

You can't even respect a firsthand accounts from the country itself because your ego will not allow you to. I would rather be laughed out of your classroom than participate beside you. Where do your views originate from and how can you prove to me that the majority of Syrians are not supporting Assad? You can't and your classroom couldn't either without turning it into a ethnic crap fight. Syrians are Syrians.. Deal with it.

Heres the Haywire view of CNN and your government. But keep denying the truth..

(CNN) -- In the midst of the struggle against Bashar al-Assad's government stands Jabhat al-Nusra, recently designated by the U.S. State Department as a foreign terrorist organization.

A new report by the Quilliam Foundation in London says the organization is the most effective arm of the Syrian insurgency and now fields about 5,000 fighters against the Assad regime.

Practically speaking, the terrorist designation means little that is new for the immediate struggle in Syria. Shortly after al-Nusra claimed credit for one of its early suicide bombings in January 2012, the Obama administration made known al-Nusra's connection to al Qaeda in Iraq, a group with which I was intimately familiar in my capacity as an analyst and targeting officer at the Central Intelligence Agency.

That is one group who have almost over half of the initial protesters in their fighting force.

reply to post by DarknStormy


You are so effing predictable. You know what? I know that my rebuttals will be matched by counter-rebuttals, making similar claims back (my "you would be laughed out of a poly-sci class" - which I would know, since I've graduated from such a program, was weakly paralleled by your "your being laughed at here"). Thats fine by me. My environment is one of intellectuals who study political conditions. Yours - ATS - is a fools paradise. Most intelligent people make the same claims about this site - it's full of ignoramuses. Which is unfortunate, since it's nice to have a place to come to debate sometimes. Unfortunately, the people one has to contend with are obnoxiously uneducated types who have clearly never put in the time and energy to inform themselves, not just in political theory and history, but in the basics of logic and reason (your refusal to acknowledge the primacy of demographics is a case in point).,..

Now go defend yourself again.

You cannot even acknowledge that terrorists are operating in Syria.

That's besides the point. Everyone knows the FreeSyrianArmy has al Qaida elements. So? Assad is a dictator who has killed tens of thousands of his own people. His goons mutilated the body of a 13 year old for being present at a protest against the government the death of Hamaz Ali. Your support of Syria is NAIVE as #. It's idiotic. Russia supports Syria because Syria buys a lot of weapons from Russia, but even Russia is distancing themselves from Assad. It's no longer tenable.

You have this ignoramus prejudice fed by conspiracy theories and leftist dogma that the US and its affiliates are "evil", making Assad the "good guy". Aye. That is such obvious tripe.

As I've said, read a book. You desperately need to educate yourself. You'll be surprised at what you learn about how little you know.

By the way, you know, just in case you aren't privy to this, Al Assad knows he's teetering on being overthrown. He, unlike the pee-brain gaddafi, is far more cunning. He blames all the deaths of his government on terrorism, just as he blamed the torture, castration, and immolation of Hama Ali Al Khatteb on terrorists. Don't be a gull. He's not stupid. He knows how to protect himself and his interests. In short, what you hear from that mans mouth is pure unadulterated lying

reply to post by dontreally


So you call yourself someone who has worked with academics or along the lines and all you can provide is some wikipedia link? Anyway, what about this information from your link?

In response to Al Jazeera's story, the chief of Syria's medical examiners association, Dr. Akram El-Shaar, denied that Hamza was tortured. El-Shaar said that he supervised the autopsy in Damascus and that the boy did not have any sign of torture. He also claimed that Hamza had been shot in the Daraa riot and that all signs of disfigurement were due to decay.

But now lets take a look at another perspective of what could of taken place.

Armed Gangs in Daraa - Our correspondent said there was a heavy security presence in Daraa, with the army, anti-terror police and riot police all deployed in the city. Journalists are not being allowed to visit the city, and several of those who attempted to do so last night had their equipment confiscated by authorities.

Anti Terror police? Obviously the government knew about something else happening in the city.

Checkpoints have been set up by security forces at all entries to the city.

Maybe to prevent more extremists getting into the city? But lets just say Assad didn't want people seeing the atrocities his army committed.

Syria's state-run television station reported that an "armed gang" attacked an ambulance at the Omari mosque, killing four people.

Well, I'd believe it because armed gangs are all operating all over Syria right now. But lets just believe it was Assads armed gang.

The victims were a doctor, a paramedic, a policeman and the ambulance driver, according to SANA.

And when you are killing doctors, paramedics and police officers, you are committing acts of terrorism. But again, lets just blame Assad because he is a terrorist.

More from last Month in the Palestinian refugee camp or Yamouk remembering that most of these Palestinians are Sunnis.

Fighting in Palestinian refugee camps in Syria

It now appears that the al-Qaeda fighters were not only made up of Muslim extremists, but also included Israeli Mossad agents. They had specific plans to corner the leaders of other Palestinian factions and eliminate them. Not finding them, they allowed the other members of Al-Qaida to systematically loot the empty apartments of these leaders.

After a week of heavy fighting, elements of al-Qaida, Mossad-included, retreated and the camp was declared a "neutral zone." Of the 180,000 inhabitants, about 120,000 had fled the camp at the request of the Syrian authorities and were relocated by them to Damascus. Most are now back home.

reply to post by DarknStormy


Many members on ATS have this problem of oversimplifying aspects of Terrorism and international relations yet still speak as if they are an authority on the subject because they can cherry pick facts.

Let’s take what you said about Al-Nusra, you linked us to an article that discusses a report which says in effect that Al-Nusra is an off-shot of Al-Qa’ida in Iraq. This is consistent with the view of the American government and as a direct result of this they have designated this group as a “terrorist organisation” that means that America does not provide Al-Nusra with any support, I have a thread on this very subject if you are interested.

I really don’t understand how you can claim that Assad is a leader backed by the support of the majority, all this arguing about “proof he’s not popular”. He is part of a dictatorship dynasty that has been in power for over 40 years, he is part of the ethnic minority, he does not represent the ethnic majority and demographics is very important to take into account. In addition to this when Assad came to power in 2000 after the death of his father he was praised by Syrians as a reformers, they believed he was going to introduce democracy and end years of emergency rule. He done neither, Assad’s idea of democracy was to run elected for president unopposed and he only lifted the emergency rule in 2011 to appear to the international community to be appeasing the protesters. Because of this he is considered to be very unpopular amongst Syrians, how can you presume that a leader is popular when he kills and tortures his own people, this is undeniable. Yes the Rebels are also guilty of crimes but not on the same level of Assad.

Out of interest, because I honestly don’t know could you please make your position on Syria clear.

Mine is straight forward, I believe that the Syrian people have the right to self-determination independent of the actions of any external influences. Furthermore I also believe that we, as western powers have a moral obligation to assist them in fulfilling their self-determination if they request us to do so as we have as we have an international duty to limit harm caused by such movements to the innocent citizens of Syria.

What is your position?