What's really killing Americans. HINT: It's not guns!

reply to post by snarky412


I think your belief that only souless people or those mentally ill or on drugs commit act's of murder against their fellow men is a tad naive....If we are only talking about act's of unprovoked mass murder by the average "Joe" on the street then yes I will agree to some of your logic.

But let's not make excuses for what can be a part of human nature and as proven to be since the time man as existed.....I would say that a huge percentage of murderous act's involve human emotion's such as greed, pride, jealousy, selfishness, hatred, anger and other such things that don't require mental illness or drug's to fuel them! It is quite simply part of human nature for the human race to be capable of evil act's against one another and that include's murder.
I agree that for most people like you and me we can't imagine taking another person's life....but that doesn't mean that if anyone else doe's that by default they are automatically not sane.

What is really killing americans (as for as wealth) HINT, it is the wealthy are taking most of it.

Originally posted by ufohunter16
And what would you like me to look a little harder at?

Just saying stuff like 911 or the Oklahoma city bombing don't count? I agree guns provide an easier direction, but rifles only account for less than 400 of 10,000s of murders in the US each year. Hammers and bats alone do 3 to 4 times more.... even bare hands do 3 to 4 times more....

Yaaaaay!

Another gun thread that goes over everything that has already been discussed in all the other gun threads.

reply to post by ufohunter16

The atrocities of this nation are commited with guns.

No.....

The atrocities of this Nation are committed by Mankind.

The weapon was created by Man.
The weapon of choice in a killing is also used by Man.
Therefore, Man is the only one at fault and held responsible for the action, not the weapon.

It's about time we, as a society, start to take responsibility for our actions instead of playing the blame game.

reply to post by Logos23

I think your belief that only souless people or those mentally ill or on drugs commit act's of murder against their fellow men is a tad naive....

Me naive, not hardly. I've been cold or hard but never naive....
I was referring to today in the US...not world history. Big difference......
But to what you are saying, Man has proven to be the deadliest machine throughout the ages of any weapon.

I would say that a huge percentage of murderous act's involve human emotion's such as greed, pride, jealousy, selfishness, hatred, anger and other such things that don't require mental illness or drug's to fuel them! It is quite simply part of human nature for the human race to be capable of evil act's against one another and that include's murder

And all these are "emotions" that control the mind.
Now whether a person is strong enough to over come anger, rage, hatred, depression etc. is up to the individual. Hence, mentally unstable, even if temporary.
I always compare the brain to a computer and when some one "snaps" it reminds me of a computer shorting out or going off-line so to speak. Some kind of short circuit where they go haywire.
Throw into the mix prescription meds or other substances, and that is a recipe for a disaster.

I don't know about the UK, but here in the US, some of the doctors are notorious for giving prescriptions to every Tom, Dick and Harry. And even age isn't questioned. They put young kids on anti-depressants now instead of finding a solution. Sad really....

Much respect~
snarky

What an incredibly stupid thread.
Your stats show guns kill still americans

reply to post by WP4YT


28 292 deaths by murder in general.
11 493 by fire arms.

Oh guys, just 11 493 so it's not guns.
Only killing off an entire town each year with pistols, who cares?
Oh and fire arm murders subtracted from all murders is only 16 799; hardly a difference from 28 292.

What ever right?

/Sarcasm off

Who had the balls to compare murder to cigarettes and alcohol? WHAT?!
Who had the balls to make this list of incomparable variables?

One murder is one too much. If taking away guns (if that was even possible) would mean 11 493 less deaths then DO IT!

reply to post by snarky412


I never made a weapon, yet I am humanity according to you.
I really remember why I left this forum.

What if I get killed by a weapon? I never made one.

Be realistic. Please. I beg you.

What is more likely:

A) You get killed by a cigarette.
B) You get killed by a pistol.

Let me know okay?

Did that guy shoot people with cigarettes in the cinema?
Do you consider him to be humanity?
I don't know if you have seen him in court on tape but his consciousnesses doesn't appear to be on this planet.

I'm just saying man. You can say guns don't kill, people who wield them do. However that apparently means some of us are incompetent of having them and therefore they should be removed/restricted. In some states its not even restricted I believe?

reply to post by Xtrozero


OH only 400 murders what ever?

Are you kidding me?
What if that is your mom and your kids.
I know that sounds confronting but those are kids, and wives, fathers, husbands, firemen, cops and so on.

Originally posted by novuslibertas
reply to post by snarky412

 

What is more likely:

A) You get killed by a cigarette.
B) You get killed by a pistol.

Let me know okay?

C) You drown while consuming alcohol with a soggy cigarette floating by your corpse ...

Love the jalil avatar snarky412

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by boncho

 

Well obviously other homicides will outweigh gun homicides if gun homicides rarely happen. The thing you're missing is that those other homicides are not elevated compared to the US, and therefore you don't have a point.

The problem with that argument is, Americans will still kill each other.

A couple of years ago the "Gotham Gazette" reported that the instance of gun murder had dropped by a significant amount in NYC. The number of "illegal guns recovered at murder scenes" had dropped significantly. Later in the article they admitted that murder by knife had erased 80% of the drop in "gun murders" and the overall murder rate was breaking records.

People stopped shooting. Then they started stabbing, shooting, poisoning, and beating people to death. Even reducing the number of "gun murders" couldn't staunch the rise in violent homicide. When people wanted to kill, they killed.

Removing guns only leaves the old and weak at the mercy of the young and the strong.

Marko Kloos - "Why The Gun Is Civilization"

. . .The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly. . .

Not the exact Gotham Gazette Article I was looking for, but it will do.

New York's Gun Battle

Bloomberg's push to rid New York City of illegal guns has seen results. The number of guns recovered from crime scenes in the city dropped by 13 percent from last year. The number of people shot to death dropped from 347 in 2007 to 292 in 2008. Overall, murders increased from 2007 to 2008, but only due to an increase in crimes committed with knives.

They go on to praise him for going to other states and suing gun dealers. However, they fail to recognize their own cognitive dissonance. They bang the "less guns equals more safe" drum. Yet they just admitted people will resort to knives and other tactics when they can't get a gun. All the while continually tightening restrictions on legal gun owners have continued to leave NYC residents in danger.

reply to post by FeatherofMaat


And who exactly are you?

I see what your saying. What I meant was that things like bats will probably never cause something like Sandy Hook. And that people who want gun control will use that to scare us. Hope that clarifies things.

If the American public went up against the military you can be damn sure we would win. Even against all the tanks and drones. We've done it before. The men and women who fought in the Revolutionary war were little more than farmers and average joes up against a well trained army.

Originally posted by novuslibertas
OH only 400 murders what ever?

Are you kidding me?
What if that is your mom and your kids.
I know that sounds confronting but those are kids, and wives, fathers, husbands, firemen, cops and so on.

Well out of 330 million people....I understand your point, but if you are so upset and need to do something to try and prevent 400 deaths I'm sure you got one hell of a campain going to lower the speed limit to lower the 40k death done by drivers.

Originally posted by novuslibertas
reply to post by snarky412

 

I never made a weapon, yet I am humanity according to you.
I really remember why I left this forum.

What if I get killed by a weapon? I never made one.

Be realistic. Please. I beg you.

What is more likely:

A) You get killed by a cigarette.
B) You get killed by a pistol.

Let me know okay?

Did that guy shoot people with cigarettes in the cinema?
Do you consider him to be humanity?
I don't know if you have seen him in court on tape but his consciousnesses doesn't appear to be on this planet.

I'm just saying man. You can say guns don't kill, people who wield them do. However that apparently means some of us are incompetent of having them and therefore they should be removed/restricted. In some states its not even restricted I believe?

edit on 8/1/13 by novuslibertas because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/1/13 by novuslibertas because: (no reason given)

And I reiterate......

Who CREATED the weapons????

This is my quote and I think you might want to brush up on your history.....

The atrocities of this Nation are committed by Mankind. The weapon was created by Man. The weapon of choice in a killing is also used by Man. Therefore, Man is the only one at fault and held responsible for the action, not the weapon. It's about time we, as a society, start to take responsibility for our actions instead of playing the blame game.

When the word "Man" is used, it is used as a generalization.
Not you personally. I shouldn't have to explain that part to you.

Same term as they used when landing on the moon, remember?
"One small step for Man.....One giant leap for Mankind"

Same principle....different topic.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by novuslibertas
OH only 400 murders what ever?

Are you kidding me?
What if that is your mom and your kids.
I know that sounds confronting but those are kids, and wives, fathers, husbands, firemen, cops and so on.

Well out of 330 million people....I understand your point, but if you are so upset and need to do something to try and prevent 400 deaths I'm sure you got one hell of a campain going to lower the speed limit to lower the 40k death done by drivers.

edit on 8-1-2013 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

I understand your point.
I cannot change anything in your country, even if I wished so. It would be crazy to try and talk to every murderer and see if I could solve their problems. However I do not think that talking to every murderer is needed. In my opinion the problem would be solved by restricting guns for "casual" people (average joe). I understand criminals can still get guns on the black market. Which is an aspect we won't be able to change, because it's the nature of some of us. By restricting guns for "casual" people (average joe) there will be another barrier that would have to be crossed, a certain incentive would have to be given to get access to a gun and execute your murderous plans. In other words murder with guns could be punished harder (punishment in America is relatively already harsh compared to that of my country). The only problem I see is that some Americans (correct me if I'm wrong) see a big problem with self protection in this case as they want to buy guns to protect themselves against these criminals with guns of the black market.

Originally posted by snarky412

Originally posted by novuslibertas
reply to post by snarky412

 

I never made a weapon, yet I am humanity according to you.
I really remember why I left this forum.

What if I get killed by a weapon? I never made one.

Be realistic. Please. I beg you.

What is more likely:

A) You get killed by a cigarette.
B) You get killed by a pistol.

Let me know okay?

Did that guy shoot people with cigarettes in the cinema?
Do you consider him to be humanity?
I don't know if you have seen him in court on tape but his consciousnesses doesn't appear to be on this planet.

I'm just saying man. You can say guns don't kill, people who wield them do. However that apparently means some of us are incompetent of having them and therefore they should be removed/restricted. In some states its not even restricted I believe?

edit on 8/1/13 by novuslibertas because: (no reason given)

edit on 8/1/13 by novuslibertas because: (no reason given)

And I reiterate......

Who CREATED the weapons????

This is my quote and I think you might want to brush up on your history.....

The atrocities of this Nation are committed by Mankind. The weapon was created by Man. The weapon of choice in a killing is also used by Man. Therefore, Man is the only one at fault and held responsible for the action, not the weapon. It's about time we, as a society, start to take responsibility for our actions instead of playing the blame game.

When the word "Man" is used, it is used as a generalization.
Not you personally. I shouldn't have to explain that part to you.

Same term as they used when landing on the moon, remember?
"One small step for Man.....One giant leap for Mankind"

Same principle....different topic.

I understood you the first time. Generalization is stupid. It gives birth to a lot of bad things.