Pi, an AMAZING description!!

Originally posted by tridentblue
That clip is amazing, because it really does get at the thrill of math: Its the interconnectedness of everything, the way patterns repeat throughout the universe.

That said, I think the statement is actually wrong. Its true that any infinite truly random sequence of numbers should contain at some point any other sequence of numbers somewhere in it. However pi fails at a key test of randomness: It can be compressed into a finite form. For instance, the computer program which enumerates all the digits of pi is finite in length. But for a truly random string of infinite numbers, there would be no computer program that could enumerate them. That's because the computer program works through a pattern, but truly random numbers have no pattern. The amount of numbers that can have their digits enumerated with a computer program is "countable", but the amount that can't is "uncountable".

en.wikipedia.org...

Another way to see why its wrong is through information theory. It takes a certain amount of bytes on your drive to store a photo, a song, a movie, and they can only be compressed, or zipfiled, down so much. But if every song, every movie, every picture is encoded in the digits of pi, and the program to enumerate pi is only a few kilobytes....well, who needs big hard drives anymore. It just doesn't make sense to me. I mean I may be wrong, but I don't see it.

Well, maybe you could (I'm not a mathimatician), but you would need millions of years and a lot of computing power to extract the data, so it wouldn't make any sense.

And the point is that the jumble of numbers spells out meaningful information somewhere along the string of infinite numbers. Where in the infinite area it is, is impossible to know, hence its impossible to use. Its just trivial that somewhere there will be something we could understand.

I found a txt that apparently has the first billion numbers of pi, unfortunately its almost 1GB in size so I can't download it now (not to mention I can't open it with Notepad++)... But if its real, there may be a compressed archive somewhere, which we could download and check out, and see what interesting things are in it. Txt compresses well, so surely someones compressed it.

Edit: trillion numbers? www.numberworld.org...

Here is something I considered a long time ago while investigating PI. I realised that you cannot draw a true circle in space, one can only draw a sprial.

How did I reach this conclusion?

Well, if I take a chalk and draw a circle on a board one realises that the chalk, the board and myself are moving through space, this means the distance the chalk has moved during the period of drawing the circle is not the same as the size of the circle drawn.

The point in space when I started drawing the circle is not the same point in space when I finish drawing the circle, drawing a circle on a chalkboard is the same as drawing a spiral through space.

From this you can take your starting point and end point in space and draw a straight line between the two.

Hi All and One,
If anyone has any interest in learning how meaningful numbers can be, please find and read a book by Marty Leeds, its called 'Pi the Great Work'

Here is a website that you can search for a number sequence in the first 200000000 digits of pi.
See if your birth date is in there.

www.angio.net...

Originally posted by the0dalai0farmer
Hi All and One,
If anyone has any interest in learning how meaningful numbers can be, please find and read a book by Marty Leeds, its called 'Pi the Great Work'

My favorite reference book is "from the birth of numbers" by Jan Gullberg, check it out. Lol, i have it open atthe moment

I missed this episode but my son taped it for me so I can watch it tomorrow. We love Finch at my house though I have to say I was awed and then as dumb-founded as the students, thinking: Wow...wait. How WILL that help them ? Still was an awesome scene, though.

We were talking about finding information in the digits of Pi and realized there's going to be a Pi date in a couple of years. 3/14/15

3.141592653

There will be a baby born 3/14/15 at 9:26 AM or PM and maybe the next numbers will be his longitude or latitude or address or something and he will be the infamous Pi Baby. Hope Pi Baby likes math.

Silly Pi,
Simply divide 10471975511/3333333333
and get 11 digits of Pi accuracy.

I've always said Pi is a digital answer to an analog question.

I don't understand why people get caught up in it's supposed mystery as I see no mystery. It's just a string of numbers trying to make a perfect arc, it ain't gonna happen. hence the infinity of it.

Originally posted by EdSurly
I've always said Pi is a digital answer to an analog question.

I don't understand why people get caught up in it's supposed mystery as I see no mystery. It's just a string of numbers trying to make a perfect arc, it ain't gonna happen. hence the infinity of it.

There isn't any mystery, it is jujst a string of numbers. But its that string of numbers that makes it so interesting. You don't need mystery for something to be interesting.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
Here is something I considered a long time ago while investigating PI. I realised that you cannot draw a true circle in space, one can only draw a sprial.

How did I reach this conclusion?

Well, if I take a chalk and draw a circle on a board one realises that the chalk, the board and myself are moving through space, this means the distance the chalk has moved during the period of drawing the circle is not the same as the size of the circle drawn.

The point in space when I started drawing the circle is not the same point in space when I finish drawing the circle, drawing a circle on a chalkboard is the same as drawing a spiral through space.

From this you can take your starting point and end point in space and draw a straight line between the two.

edit on 6-1-2013 by TheMindWar because: Typo

I don't follow your logic. If you draw a circle while moving, why would the circle not be a circle?

An interesting description with some interesting facts, but as one poster already said - the number combinations only mean anything when we attribute that meaning to them.

The teacher did not actually answer the student's question though. He explained what the number contains but not how it can be used by a layman in everyday life..........

I would like the answer to that if anybody actually knows????

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown
An interesting description with some interesting facts, but as one poster already said - the number combinations only mean anything when we attribute that meaning to them.

The teacher did not actually answer the student's question though. He explained what the number contains but not how it can be used by a layman in everyday life..........

I would like the answer to that if anybody actually knows????

Your right, and thats what I also thought, she asked whats it got to do with anything, he started rambling on about how its a random string of numbers. Whats the point of that? Calculating anything related to circles, I believe. So, for example, if you need to calculate the area to paint, etc. Suppose there are lots of real life situations where you need pi, but I can't think of any at the moment. Its also important to remember that simply learning about stuff is important for the brain, even if you wont directly use it in the future, you will have learned how to study. And there will always be someone in the class who will require the knowledge in the future.

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown
An interesting description with some interesting facts, but as one poster already said - the number combinations only mean anything when we attribute that meaning to them.

The teacher did not actually answer the student's question though. He explained what the number contains but not how it can be used by a layman in everyday life..........

I would like the answer to that if anybody actually knows????

He did answer the question. He said "now what you do with that information, what it's good for, that is up to you"

You have the world at your fingertips, the rest is up to you

Originally posted by kthxbai
He did answer the question. He said "now what you do with that information, what it's good for, that is up to you"

You have the world at your fingertips, the rest is up to you

But that was the question. He basically said that you need to figure out the answer to your question. She asks how is this going to be of any use in the future, he answers that its up to you what you do with it. I guess in a round about way its an answer, just not the answer she was looking for. There is a more precise and useful way to answer...

Originally posted by ZeussusZ
Here is a website that you can search for a number sequence in the first 200000000 digits of pi.
See if your birth date is in there.

www.angio.net...

That was interesting. My phone numbers are in there, birth date of course, but not my library card number. So the aliens running PI won't be able to check out my borrowing history, thanks goodness.

reply to post by Aleister


Yeah I found mine as well.
Re. your library card, There are more numbers though, but they couldn't fit them on the page, something to do with infinity or something

Originally posted by kthxbai
He did answer the question. He said "now what you do with that information, what it's good for, that is up to you"

You have the world at your fingertips, the rest is up to you

But doesn't that hold the same for any irrational number?

"What's it good for is up to you" is not an answer. Its the teacher saying he doesn't know what it is good for.

Can you provide an example?

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown

Originally posted by kthxbai
He did answer the question. He said "now what you do with that information, what it's good for, that is up to you"

You have the world at your fingertips, the rest is up to you

But doesn't that hold the same for any irrational number?

"What's it good for is up to you" is not an answer. Its the teacher saying he doesn't know what it is good for.

Can you provide an example?

edit on 8/1/1313 by Krusty the Klown because: Kwote tags

Yeah, the particular episode had to do with a kid that was gifted with coding and computer programming. The explanation pertained a little to everything but specifically to him.

What YOU are choosing to do with is it "not much" whereas what someone else may choose to do with it is a great deal.

Originally posted by Krusty the Klown

Originally posted by kthxbai
He did answer the question. He said "now what you do with that information, what it's good for, that is up to you"

You have the world at your fingertips, the rest is up to you

But doesn't that hold the same for any irrational number?

"What's it good for is up to you" is not an answer. Its the teacher saying he doesn't know what it is good for.

Can you provide an example?

edit on 8/1/1313 by Krusty the Klown because: Kwote tags

I use it often for figuring the area of a circle. btw, I loved the answer the teacher gave....it was very appropriate in this day and age of people demanding to be spoon fed every tidbit. Use your imagination, theres a great big world out there....you must first get off your lazy ass and look up from your iPhone first. Its no wonder we have become such an ignorant society

reply to post by EdSurly


You are assuming I'm lazy and an iphone owner. Well done. In fact I'm neither but thanks for pre-judging me.

You still did not answer the question the student asked. How often does a layman need to calculate the area of a circle?

Is there anything else you can use pi for?

And I am not being a smart ass like you assume. If you don't know the answer don't bother replying, I'm asking for someone with some ACTUAL knowledge to reply.

reply to post by kthxbai


I don't choose not to do not much with it - I simply have no need to use it, nor does anybody else I know.

The student asked what will she ever need it for.

That is why I am curious to what it could be used for if it is so powerful and ubiquitous.