Thus far, scientific evidence is pointing to an actual Infinity existing

Based on recent studies of the cosmic microwave afterglow of the Big Bang, with which our known universe began 13.7 billion years ago, many cosmologists now believe that this observable universe is just a tiny, if relentlessly expanding, patch of space-time embedded in a greater universal fabric that is, in a profound sense, infinite. It may be an infinitely large monoverse, or it may be an infinite bubble bath of infinitely budding and inflating multiverses, but infinite it is, and the implications of that infinity are appropriately huge.

This is awesome, because it just boggles the mind as far as trying to contemplate the very size or way in which this Infinity may exist as part of our fabric of reality.

Relativity and inflation theory, said Dr. Aguirre, “allow us to conceptualize things that would have seemed impossible before.” Time can be twisted, he said, “so from one point of view the universe is a finite thing that is growing into something infinite if you wait forever, but from another point of view it’s always infinite.”

Source

Great article. I've always had a hunch that existence/reality may be Infinite after I was introduced to Infinite Math via Georg Cantor (same guy in my signature) as part of set theory.

Cantor found that the decimal numbers between 0 and 1, or say 1 and 2, is a bigger unlistable infinite amount of values than counting from 1 to forever. So if we apply that to reality, say the space between 2 people (let's say 10 feet) can also be infinitely sliced up and you end up in quantum states, possible non-locality, and so on.

Anyway, great article!!!!

Even with something like the big bang, is there not the possibility of a lack of....ummm, I guess cosmic shrapnel the further from the source of the detonation? I mean the universe may be infinite, but I doubt that its as populated as our galaxy the further you got out. Just a thought, I wish I had a better knowledge of this subject.

Amazingly interesting , but I'm afraid that the only way I can deal with infinity is to relax and accept it ; if I actually try THINKING about it my brain just slams on the brakes .

But thank you , I have hopes that one day I will be able to give it some real thought if I just get my nose rubbed in it enough times . ( I got a lazy brain that hates change )

reply to post by 8bitPaladin


I dont think that the universe itself is infinite, but I believe the volume into which it is expanding may well be. Its a tricky and subtle definition, but one that think is worth making. What one would descibe the volume outside our universe to be, is another question entirely, and one which I have not the knowledge to even contemplate.

Good find.

I think the universe is infinite but matter is finite.This just means space and matter will expand forever and we're eternal.

Say you have a marble in a big box. You then have a high state of entropy because the marble has a lot of states it can be in. You then put that same marble in a small box where it can barely move and you have a low state of entropy because there's only a few states it can be in.

What this means the universe will expand forever but we will eventually reach a point near absolute zero. There will be more states for matter to be in but we can't go into those states because there isn't enough energy to do work. Eventually quantum fluctuations will dominate the universe and then universes will began to branch from the universe. So you have this endless branching of universes. These universes expand and some of them have beings like us and in some we may live similar lives or very different lives. A universe expands until it nears absolute zero. Quantum Fluctuations eventually dominate then more universes expand from that universe. So the universe is infinite and so are we. It goes even further if Consciousness is Quantum.

If we live in a bubble universe amongst and alongside an infinite set of bubble universes, would I forever be blowing bubbles, pretty bubbles, in the air?

Originally posted by neoholographic
Good find.

I think the universe is infinite but matter is finite.This just means space and matter will expand forever and we're eternal.

Say you have a marble in a big box. You then have a high state of entropy because the marble has a lot of states it can be in. You then put that same marble in a small box where it can barely move and you have a low state of entropy because there's only a few states it can be in.

What this means the universe will expand forever but we will eventually reach a point near absolute zero. There will be more states for matter to be in but we can't go into those states because there isn't enough energy to do work. Eventually quantum fluctuations will dominate the universe and then universes will began to branch from the universe. So you have this endless branching of universes. These universes expand and some of them have beings like us and in some we may live similar lives or very different lives. A universe expands until it nears absolute zero. Quantum Fluctuations eventually dominate then more universes expand from that universe. So the universe is infinite and so are we. It goes even further if Consciousness is Quantum.

edit on 4-1-2013 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)

A thread earlier today named [www.abovetopsecret.com... "Colder than Cold"], one which deserves many more posts imnho, provides data about moving slower than absolute zero, a negative state, which also involves infinity. That, combined with your post, shows several infinities intertwining. And those, combined with the [www.abovetopsecret.com... the new Pi thread] showing that pi also is infinite and what that actually means, is all infinitely pleasing.

Something amazing to read about, and contemplate. Even though it's difficult to completely grasp. Infinity may be the nature of existence. Infinite conscious experiences, infinite timelines, infinite possibilities; perhaps infinity must be the case because there cannot be such a thing as a point of non-existence? Infinity seems like a more plausible notion than a finite span.

now which galaxy did i park my spaceship around again. This is where the small things in life start to take on significance.

He always knew! Love the phrase from the article,

an infinite bubble bath of infinitely

I know there has been a debate of finite versus infinite within the field, I'm sure the finite group will have a response to this recent finding and so on..........ohh the irony.

reply to post by dominicus

Cantor found that the decimal numbers between 0 and 1, or say 1 and 2, is a bigger unlistable infinite amount of values than counting from 1 to forever.

I believe that you are putting your feet in your mouth on that statement. The statement made only sense if you added the first to the second (to get the bigger and only in relative comparison, comparing anew a subsection) in direct comparison infinite is as great as any other infinite, making your statement nonsensical.

In regards to the OP there is not way that a physical infinite is provable or scientifically testable, it would require an infinite/omnipresent observer. Theorizing or modeling infinite is already possible, like we do with numbers.

Out of curiosity, whatever implied that infinity DOESN'T exist? The title seems kind of redundant.

reply to post by Panic2k11

I believe that you are putting your feet in your mouth on that statement. The statement made only sense if you added the first to the second (to get the bigger and only in relative comparison, comparing anew a subsection) in direct comparison infinite is as great as any other infinite, making your statement nonsensical.

Feet are not being put in mouth. Do you know what Set Theory is in Math? There are relative and different size Infinities. The space from 1 to forever counted numbers, is different that between 0 and 1. It's been proven long time ago. If you got beef with it, go disprove Cantor or set theory.

In regards to the OP there is not way that a physical infinite is provable or scientifically testable, it would require an infinite/omnipresent observer. Theorizing or modeling infinite is already possible, like we do with numbers.

The microwave afterglo tests tell us enough and give us various glimpses into whether there is an Infinity, in that a certain range and set of the after glow, can be deduced to be background constant that does not expand, or have a directional expansion which has already provide evedince of multi-verses.

Go read this stuff up!!!

reply to post by dominicus


Yes I know what Set theory and still say that what you stated made no sense in the words that it was expressed.

I disagree that there are such thing...

There are relative and different size Infinities

Even as abstract concepts there is no logic in those definitions, infinite is a statement that qualifies something as not bounded by limits, it can not be relative nor have different sizes as it has by definition no size. An Infinite set is by its narrower limitation of characteristics a distinct concept than the broader concept of infinite (not the same thing), even so the size of infinite is not changed.

The space from 1 to forever counted numbers, is different that between 0 and 1. It's been proven long time ago. If you got beef with it, go disprove Cantor or set theory.

This statement is valid, I have no beef with it, infinites are distinct in relation to the elements they may contain, but not in relation to their size (unless you limit it to a subsection of the set, that was the point I was making in my first reply).

The microwave afterglo tests tell us enough and give us various glimpses into whether there is an Infinity, in that a certain range and set of the after glow, can be deduced to be background constant that does not expand, or have a directional expansion which has already provide evedince of multi-verses. Go read this stuff up!!!

I do no understand the deep physics of the test but my affirmation remains valid. A finite and localized observer will never be able to validate the existence of infinite, he can theorize and speculate but will be unable to ascertain the physical existence of infinite. I'm not defending that there is an impossibility of a physical infinite to exist (one concept where it may be prevalent is on scale, size), just that we will never be able to prove one does.

reply to post by Panic2k11

Yes I know what Set theory and still say that what you stated made no sense in the words that it was expressed. I disagree that there are such thing...

From that same article

In the late 19th century, the great German mathematician Georg Cantor took on infinity not as a means to an end, but as a subject worthy of rigorous study in itself. He demonstrated that there are many kinds of infinite sets, and some infinities are bigger than others. Hard as it may be to swallow, the set of all the possible decimal numbers between 1 and 2, being unlistable, turns out to be a bigger infinity than the set of all whole numbers from 1 to forever, which in principle can be listed.

Further you said:

Even as abstract concepts there is no logic in those definitions, infinite is a statement that qualifies something as not bounded by limits, it can not be relative nor have different sizes as it has by definition no size. An Infinite set is by its narrower limitation of characteristics a distinct concept than the broader concept of infinite (not the same thing), even so the size of infinite is not changed.

In Math it's all symbolic, conceptual, theoretical. Infinity itself, by it's very nature allows for different set, sizes, expansions of itself, i.e. nothing is left out and all possibilities are included.

In the microwave afterglow tests, the results are a whole other beast. They're not looking at conceptual sets, they're looking at background directional radiation

This statement is valid, I have no beef with it, infinites are distinct in relation to the elements they may contain, but not in relation to their size (unless you limit it to a subsection of the set, that was the point I was making in my first reply).

Yea I agree. I think there was some loss in translation somewhere.

I do no understand the deep physics of the test but my affirmation remains valid. A finite and localized observer will never be able to validate the existence of infinite, he can theorize and speculate but will be unable to ascertain the physical existence of infinite. I'm not defending that there is an impossibility of a physical infinite to exist (one concept where it may be prevalent is on scale, size), just that we will never be able to prove one does.

This alone has philosophical, mathematical, and scientific implications on whether the above is a valid statement. I'm not sure if I would personally limit verifying an actual infinity based on a finite observer.

I think we can theorize in advance and get enough possible evidence based on further advances in understanding the fabric of space/time, gravity, and various other aspects that can lead us to conclude that there is an Infinity.

reply to post by Panic2k11


Dominicus is right. There is an infinity for every dimension. Either it's infinitely large, infinitely potent, or infinitely existent. Something that is infinitely large, or exists everywhere, can still be weakened; something that is infinitely potent, or is capable of doing anything, can be as small as a dime; something that is infinitely existent can be as weak as a piece of paper and still last for all of eternity.

Infinity, by itself, is simply a description of unchanging nature. It is an adjective. You don't just say 'smelly' or 'big'. Oh look, there's a big! It doesn't make sense. It is intended for use in conjunction with a noun, unless you are exploring the nature of being infinitely whatever. Then infinity, by itself, is merely a philosophical idea used to understand the parameters of other ideas.

I hope that clears up the idea of infinity - so far as semantics goes, anyway. Seriously, there is no question of infinity. You want a look at what infinity can be? Trace a giant circle on the ground and walk until you come to the end of that circle.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I agree that infinite exists as a concepts and has usefulness but that it seems no to exist in the physical world (or that we are incapable of interacting with it).

Consider the example you gave about potency consider a nob that goes from potency X to Z you know by mathematical reasoning that there is an infinite number of positions between X and Z but you are physically restricted to only be able to turn the nob a fixed number of times (with technological advances we will probably be able to see more details but will ultimately due to our finite existence as observers ever be able to observe infinity).

The circle is a dumb example as I responder some time ago the end is next to the start. As a theoretical object I would agree that a circle could represent infinite to a human viewpoint, but it should be understood that it is a failed representation, in has problems with its spatial representation and it may even imply repetition.

reply to post by Panic2k11

I agree that infinite exists as a concepts and has usefulness but that it seems no to exist in the physical world (or that we are incapable of interacting with it).

Oh, I disagree.

“You can divide infinity an infinite number of times, and the resulting pieces will still be infinitely large[...]But if you divide a non-infinite number an infinite number of times the resulting pieces are non-infinitely small. Since they are non-infinitely small, but there are an infinite number of them, if you add them back together, their sum is infinite. This implies any number is, in fact, infinite.” - Patrick Rothfuss, The Wise Man's Fear

I hate math, but numbers are beautiful things. To take be able to express the mysteries of the universe and put them on paper, and understand them...numbers paint a picture for us, a beautiful picture of marvels and potential. Between a politician's lies and a mathematician's notes on the odds of a random explosion become the world we see today, I know which one I'm choosing. There's comfort, and then there's inspiration.

Numbers mean a lot to me, as you can see.

The circle is a dumb example as I responder some time ago the end is next to the start.

A dumb example, eh? Consider this: how can you find where you started if you can see the whole circle? If you look away even for a moment, how can you remember where you started when you're on the track. You're not in spectator mode, you are in the game. If you can't see the whole circle, how can you tell how long it is? How can you tell it's not a helix? With numbers! But see, we just can't think that critically. We can't map out that big of a curve.

So we see in segments.

Wormhole Research Suggests A Universe Within A Universe

Related PDF File...

Life itself can be considered evidence of an infinite universe....

philsci-archive.pitt.edu...

Further Reading

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Kashai
Wormhole Research Suggests A Universe Within A Universe

Related PDF File...

Life itself can be considered evidence of an infinite universe....

philsci-archive.pitt.edu...

Further Reading

Any thoughts?

Just spent a coule hours on your links. Effin FASCINATING!!!!! Each black hole is a doorway into another Universe.

So then I found this:

It is not just the overall glow that Integral has seen. Before the satellite's launch, only a few dozen celestial objects were observed in gamma rays. Now Integral sees about 300 individual sources in our Galaxy and around 100 of the brightest supermassive black holes in other galaxies. These are the tip of the iceberg. Astronomers believe there are tens of millions of active black holes spread throughout space, all contributing to the gamma-ray background.

Source

The highlight: "Astronomers believe there are tens of millions of active black holes spread throughout space"

Now imagine each of those black holes enters into another Universe, which itself has "tens of millions of active black holes spread throughout ", then each of those, ad infinitum.

Mind = Officially Blown!!!!