Simon Wiesenthal Center: Top 10 Anti-Semites, Israel-Haters for 2012

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

This video was posted by somebody else here on ATS

This video was posted by the OP of this thread. Since he has been on ATS without replying to the issues raised on this thread, it proves that he cannot substantiate the lies he told about me. Liar and coward.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

No contradiction. The cartoonist had every right to publish the cartoon, and the OP every right to post it here. I just want the OP to explain what it means to him.

Ok, I guess that is it for our discussion.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman

Ok, I guess that is it for our discussion.

If you say so. Nevertheless, I will continue to post on this thread from time to time to remind people that it was not 404'd, abruptly closed or censored on ideological grounds.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

Ok, I guess that is it for our discussion.

If you say so. Nevertheless, I will continue to post on this thread from time to time to remind people that it was not 404'd, abruptly closed or censored on ideological grounds.

Well, that was more of a question than a statement. And I am sad because I enjoyed the debate. Either way, I did not mean to offend you. We are coming from different angles but if there is no difference then it's a monologue.

I don't like to hear what it says in the documentary but I prefer to have my eyes open rather than closed. Do you not feel the same way?

Let me get this right. There's an organization, Wiesenthal, that tracks what they don't like in the world as it applies to 2 million less people than the city of NY? Why?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by ThinkingHuman

 

This video was posted by somebody else here on ATS

This video was posted by the OP of this thread. Since he has been on ATS without replying to the issues raised on this thread, it proves that he cannot substantiate the lies he told about me. Liar and coward.

What lies have I told about you?

And how am I a coward?

reply to post by DJW001

I just want the OP to explain what it means to him.

Explain what the cartoon means to me?

The cartoon is self explanatory and should not require an explanation.

I have explained my opinion about the message in the cartoon various times yet you choose to ignore my explanations and demand I repeat myself.

You appear to be searching for a flame war that I want no part of.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Explain what the cartoon means to me?

The cartoon is self explanatory and should not require an explanation.

What, exactly, does "Anti-Zionism" mean? What does "Zionism" mean that you oppose? Is acknowledging the right of Israel to exist while criticizing certain policies "Anti-Zionism?" Is refusing to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist "Anti-Zionism?" Is advocating the slaughter of innocent Israeli's "Anti-Zionism?" Where, exactly do you draw the line? It would help if you clarified what you meant by the expression, wouldn't it?

I have explained my opinion about the message in the cartoon various times yet you choose to ignore my explanations and demand I repeat myself.

No, you just keep saying that it is self explanatory and posting it again.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

What lies have I told about you?

How's this for starters:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It is quite clear what you are trying to do and you are not doing a very good job at it.

Zionism is an extremist political movement that hides behind Judaism to justify it's actions and forward it's agenda. Your thinly veiled attempts to label us as Jew haters who spew bigotry by using "code words" such as Zionist are quite obvious.

I challenged you to show me where I did this. So far, you have not.

Pointing out the problems of the Zionist element within Israel is not Anti-Semitism, and never will be no matter how much people such as yourself try to twist the facts. Logic will always prevail and your tactics will always fail.

I challenged you to show where I twisted the facts. You have failed to do so. Incidentally, you will note that premise is meaningless without a definition of the phrase "Zionist element." But then, you probably realize that.

Also, you may have missed this in the OP since you seem rather clueless and continue to repeat the same none sense over and over without actually admitting what your true intentions are.

What nonsense? Where do I repeat it, other than to ask you for definitions of the phrases you keep throwing out. It's not my fault if I have to keep repeating myself because you choose to evade rather than discuss.

Then there's this as yet unsubstantiated claim:

What was inflammatory were your attempts to derail this thread with off topic accusations.

None of my posts have been off topic, and it is only since you coupled a lie with a threat that I have accused you of being a liar and a coward:

You seem to be an advocate of censorship when it comes to certain issues and your agenda has been exposed and documented for future discussions.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where did I ever advocate censorship? On the contrary, it is you who seem to find the Wiesenthal Center exercising its right to free speech to be objectionable. Since you claim to have exposed and documented my agenda, why won't you produce the "documentation." Expose my corruption, I insist. Provide links to the posts where I make accusations against you or anyone on this thread.

And how am I a coward?

Because you still refuse to back up anything you say. What are you afraid of? What harm would explaining what aspects of Zionism you find objectionable do?

reply to post by DJW001


First of all you have not shown where I have lied.

Second, I am not a coward. I purposely ignored some of your posts as they were off topic or intended to create uncivil debate.

You say that you have challenged me to explain certain things, some of them have been explained, others I have ignored due to the fact that I don't have time for your games. This is becoming rather redundant and irritating to say the least.

The things that I have explained which you claim I have not, have been explained. You have been participating in this thread so I trust you have read it from page one, if not I advise that you do.

A lot of the answers to the questions you have asked are actually in YOUR OWN posts.

Since you decided to make this a personal matter I will mention that I consider your actions to be very childish, not just in this thread but in almost every single thread that I have seen you participate in. You have a habit of attacking the OP. This is a personal observation of mine so please don't "challenge me to prove it".

As I said I don't have time for your games so if you expect anymore responses from me it better be worth my time as I don't feel like bickering with you over things that have already been explained, or have no need to be explained.

This post will probably get removed but it's a risk I am willing to take as I felt it was necessary to get my point across. I tried to be as civil as possible but you are not a very pleasant person to debate with.

You should not accuse someone a of being a liar without the evidence to back it up.

In fact, that makes you a liar.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

You should not accuse someone a of being a liar without the evidence to back it up.

And you should not claim that you have "documented" something you cannot prove. That is yet another lie. I hope your post does not get removed; it stands as a testament to your cold blooded deceitfulness.

Now, having scored a moral victory, I intend to drag this thread you have been trying to derail with your contemptible behavior back on topic: Does anyone find the list the Wiesenthal Center inaccurate? The only objectionable entry I have is characterizing the German media as anti-Israel. I do not live in Germany, so I cannot judge the overall tone, but I do read some of the major publications. If they sometimes seem sympathetic towards Palestinian issues, that is not necessarily an attack on Israel. What do you think?

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

You should not accuse someone a of being a liar without the evidence to back it up.

And you should not claim that you have "documented" something you cannot prove. That is yet another lie. I hope your post does not get removed; it stands as a testament to your cold blooded deceitfulness.

Now, having scored a moral victory, I intend to drag this thread you have been trying to derail with your contemptible behavior back on topic: Does anyone find the list the Wiesenthal Center inaccurate? The only objectionable entry I have is characterizing the German media as anti-Israel. I do not live in Germany, so I cannot judge the overall tone, but I do read some of the major publications. If they sometimes seem sympathetic towards Palestinian issues, that is not necessarily an attack on Israel. What do you think?

This post of is a classic example of the childishness of yours I previously mentioned and you must have low standards if you consider your participation in this thread a moral victory.

There are a few examples on that list that I do not agree with including the "German media". There are a few others that should not be on that list.

You are incorrect though. The German media did not make that list due to sympathizing with Palestinian issues like you said, but they were out on it for criticizing Israeli actions such as illegal settlement expansion according to international law and their secretive nuclear program, if you would have read the list properly you would have noticed this.

It is possible to criticize Israel without siding with the Palestinians. Criticizing Israel does not necessarily mean that you are Sympathetic to the Palestinians. Criticizing Israel and Zionism is not thinly veiled anti Semitism .

Even after all these posts you still have not proven me to be a liar so your false accusations are here for everyone to see so I do hope you follow through with your intentions of contributing to the continuation of this thread so you can keep proving me to be correct going forward while you continue to showcase your emotional attachment to your false sense of dignity and inflated ego.

I see that this thread is still failing to contribute anything meaningful whatsoever. At least the disgusting "Holocaust porn" statements have ended, so that's a plus.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

There are a few examples on that list that I do not agree with including the "German media". There are a few others that should not be on that list.

I would love to hear your opinions as to which belong and which do not and why. That is, after all, the whole point to your OP isn't it?

You are incorrect though. The German media did not make that list due to sympathizing with Palestinian issues like you said, but they were out on it for criticizing Israeli actions such as illegal settlement expansion according to international law and their secretive nuclear program, if you would have read the list properly you would have noticed this.

It has been days since I read the article. You may be right.

It is possible to criticize Israel without siding with the Palestinians. Criticizing Israel does not necessarily mean that you are Sympathetic to the Palestinians. Criticizing Israel and Zionism is not thinly veiled anti Semitism .

I have readily agreed that it is possible to criticize Israel, its policies and some of the tenets of "Philosophical Zionism" without being motivated by Anti-Semitism. Do you not also agree that Anti-Semites are capable of criticizing Israel?

Even after all these posts you still have not proven me to be a liar so your false accusations are here for everyone to see

Correction: even after all these posts you have yet to prove the false accusations you have made against me:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm sure that all the posters who have been starring your attempts at character assassination would love to see you put me in my place with the truth. It should be simple to do: you claim to have documented my misdeeds. If you don't, your fans might start to question what you are afraid of.

reply to post by DJW001

Correction: even after all these posts you have yet to prove the false accusations you have made against me:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm sure that all the posters who have been starring your attempts at character assassination would love to see you put me in my place with the truth. It should be simple to do: you claim to have documented my misdeeds. If you don't, your fans might start to question what you are afraid of.

I have absolutely no problem proving any "accusations lies" that you have mentioned but regrettably the post you link me to is rather lenghty and I am not quite sure what you are accusing me of accusing you of.

Please quote the exact "accusations and lies" you are mentioning so I can clarify them for you. Do not just link me to a lengthy post, provide the exact text which you would like me to explain.

Thanks.

And as for you claiming I am "afraid" of anything and is another example of your childishness and attempts to continue with uncivil discussion, that being said I am also guilty of uncivility due to the flow of the thread so I accept responsibility for my part in this.

You indicate that I should be worried about what my "fans" think of me due to our exchanges in this thread, I find this rather ironic when it is you who should be embarrased of your circular, non productive arguments you have presented during the progression of this thread. Personally, I do not care what others think of me but I do thank those who appreciate my posts, but like I said I have nothing to be afraid of and do not care what people such as yourself say or think about me.

Due to my work schedule today being rather busy I may not be able to reply right away so please be patient with my response.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Please quote the exact "accusations and lies" you are mentioning so I can clarify them for you. Do not just link me to a lengthy post, provide the exact text which you would like me to explain.

Let's take them one at a time, starting with this one:

You seem to be an advocate of censorship when it comes to certain issues and your agenda has been exposed and documented for future discussions.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please link to a post where I advocate censorship. I can link to many where I condemn censorship. On the other hand, here is your attitude towards censorship:

I believe in free speech but this organization abuses their right to free speech when they use their "influence" to try and suppress the free speech of other individuals and organizations by incorrectly portraying or purposely mistranslating them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In other words, you believe in free speech with a "but."

All of this is irrelevant. I would still like you to return to the intent of your OP and discuss the actual topic of this thread, rather than trying to lead it around in off topic circles. How do you feel about Ultra-Nationalist Ukranian politician Oleg Tiahnybok making the list? If the comments attributed to him are accurate, he is certainly an Anti-Semite (and Russophobe). Here is a link to the most objective account of him on the web:

ukrfaces.blogspot.com...

Why don't you two get a room and let this topic continue without childish back and forth nonsense.

reply to post by DJW001

Let's take them one at a time, starting with this one:

You seem to be an advocate of censorship when it comes to certain issues and your agenda has been exposed and documented for future discussions.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please link to a post where I advocate censorship.

First off my exact words were "You seem to be an advocate of censorship" which was not an outright accusation but in reality it was a personal observation on my behalf. If I would have said "You are an advocate of censorship" then your worries about being accused of advocating censorship would be valid.

Here is the post that caused me to say this:

Again, the list includes both Anti-Semites and haters of Israel. You might object to them being lumped together, but most Israelis would not. It is only your own need to justify your "impartiality," ie; hating Israel, hating Zionism and hating Jews are three entirely different and separate things, that causes you to try to tease out fine distinctions.

Speaking of motivations, why have you chosen to give this list additional publicity by posting it here? What end do you think it will serve?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My interpretation of this post was that it appears that you do not like certain aspects to be discussed if they do not fit within your views of Anti-Zionism versus Anti-Semitism. I made it quite clear in my OP what my intentions were yet you continued to ask me what were my intentions as if I should not be discussing this topic in the fashion that I have.

You also incorrectly accused me of "needing to justify my "impartiality on certain issues when this clearly was not the case.

I should add that the tone of your posts previous to the one I have just quoted also seemed to fit within thinly veiled advocation of censorship on certain topics, and how they should be discussed.

Let me remind you I did use the words "it seems" instead of "you are" which have different meanings.

I can link to many where I condemn censorship. On the other hand, here is your attitude towards censorship:

I believe in free speech but this organization abuses their right to free speech when they use their "influence" to try and suppress the free speech of other individuals and organizations by incorrectly portraying or purposely mistranslating them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In other words, you believe in free speech with a "but."

I believe in free speech but there is such a thing as abusing this luxury even though many people's opinion may difffer on this. The Simon Wiesenthal Center clearly abused their right to free speech by using outright lies and misquotes several times on this list, the Iranian regime being one example.

I have free speech, but within limits. On ATS for example, if I were to call any one here a racist name, it would be considered beyond the realm of free speech...does that make sense?

So to say I believe in free speech with a "but" is simply incorrect. Do you not agree that free speech can be abused in various ways? Just because it can be abused does not mean that it should not exist.

All of this is irrelevant. I would still like you to return to the intent of your OP and discuss the actual topic of this thread, rather than trying to lead it around in off topic circles. How do you feel about Ultra-Nationalist Ukranian politician Oleg Tiahnybok making the list? If the comments attributed to him are accurate, he is certainly an Anti-Semite (and Russophobe). Here is a link to the most objective account of him on the web:

ukrfaces.blogspot.com...

I have not had the chance to verify all these claims but if what is claimed is true then yes he deserves to be on the list. The source is a blog which makes it questionable but I prefer to attack the content versus the source. I will share my thoughts in more detail on this specific listing once I have had time to properly research it.

Now, once again, where have I lied?

reply to post by intrepid

Why don't you two get a room and let this topic continue without childish back and forth nonsense.

Agreed. It is up to the individual reader to form their own opinion of each poster on this thread.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I have not had the chance to verify all these claims but if what is claimed is true then yes he deserves to be on the list. The source is a blog which makes it questionable but I prefer to attack the content versus the source. I will share my thoughts in more detail on this specific listing once I have had time to properly research it.

Thank you for returning to the actual topic of this thread. You will note that I was careful to refer to the stories of his speech and ejection from the party as "allegations." He appears to be a controversial figure and objective information is very difficult to find. The foundation of his party platform does appear to be xenophobic, so whether or not the details of the allegations are true or not, I can certainly see why the Wiesenthal Center would list him among the top Anti-Semites.