“no reason why on the street today a citizen should be carrying loaded weapons.”

reply to post by Tw0Sides

So anyone who Disagrees with you is a "hate filled Bigot"?

Anyone who thinks that he or she has the right to tell me what I can or cannot own that I pay for with the money I earned with my hard work without harming anyone else is a hate filled bigot as far as I'm concerned.

Since the dawn of man safety has never been a right nor has it even been possible. All safety is an illusion.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


The right to safety has never existed nor has safety been truly possible? Coming from someone who is vehemently defending the right for firearms for the very purpose of one's own safety, that being from petty criminals or the government, very rich stuff.

How do you know that the average American citizen does have these encounters???
You don't live here, nor are you from here.




Ok then, I would like to ask the Americans on this thread.

Have you had to use a firearm countless times in your lives to defend yourself from being made a victim?

BTW, just because I don't live in the US does not mean I am not aware of what goes on there. I can be in your wonderful nation in 45 minutes should I choose to take a quick drive across the border.

Because the day MIGHT come when 'some' tyrannical government needs to be 'checked and balanced'.

reply to post by MessOnTheFED!


That day has come and gone...

Why not look at your own country's culture, and the level of violent crime there, before you spout off about others.

That being a mere fraction per capita in comparison to the US.

In reply to the OP, I once was accosted by man wielding a knife asking for my wallet late one night. Once I produced my Glock he quickly rescinded his request. LE told me I would have been within the law to defend myself with deadly force, especially since I had a child with me. Regardless, a little responsibility, training, and self restraint kept me from killing him on the spot. I think about that night often..

reply to post by Gargamel

Have you had to use a firearm countless times in your lives to defend yourself from being made a victim?

after i acquired one, yes, once.
before i acquired one, yes, more than 10 times
(and 3 of them were rape)

Originally posted by Honor93

unfortunately, it isn't uncommon.
it's not uncommon for them to wreck cars either but how is either event relevant to the topic ?
we were discussing armed civilians, not an abundance of errant cops with bad judgement.

this neighborhood has just had 2 home-intrusions this week and that is a regular occurrance. fix that and then we'll talk.

The relevance was that a police officer (and presumably also a citizen), whilst educating a class of kids on gun safety, shot himself. I have to stop there and repeat that to myself. The only other way I can try and explain how I see that, is this. I have a South African friend who left Joburg in the late 1980s and went back recently. He noticed that most of his friends now live in a house with not one but 2 electric fences. In between the fences is a no-mans land moat. Now because its happened slowly they haven't noticed that its a crazy way to live and its escalated out of control. They of course accept its an inconvenience but its got a point where its a normal everyday way to live.

I'm not from South Africa and no doubt someone who is can put me straight but I suspect that removing all this home defense is not going to be a good idea since South Africa is on the brink of a Civil War (only in my opinion). The parallel of course is removing guns from certain areas of the US would initially put people at risk. So I can empathise when you say "fix that and then we'll talk". If you live in a part of the US which is rampant in gun crime and you regularly have to defend yourself then an immediate ban across the board is going to put a great deal of people in mortal danger.

Clearly South Africa is a very different situation but the 'long-term' goal in the US should be to find a solution to the actual problems of education and inequality rather than go down a path of isolation and more home defence and guns. Please note I said long-term.

Originally posted by Honor93

I think a lot of people give governments too much credit to organise conspiracies, they can barley organise themselves without stabbing each other in the back

to this i can only offer one piece of advice ... never and i repeat, never, under-estimate your opponent.

I agree, Never say Never. Fortunately as long as politicians are self serving and corrupt instead of idealist, I think we'll be okay.

how 'bout we meet at the hockey rink ?

Monopoly maybe?

talk is cheap - walk the streets....march in the streets (with signs)

reply to post by region331

yeah, i get that you see relevance but i view it as irony.

wow, talk about boiling frogs ... sad to hear about your SA friend.
that has to be difficult to swallow.

although, i do understand your/his point about becoming accustomed to it ... still, that doesn't make it right or necessary.

i've never been to SA but remember the plight of the Ethiopians well.
billions worth of help later and they too want Americans dead

even though i understand what you are suggesting, i cannot consciously agree.

the 'long-term' goal in the US should be to find a solution to the actual problems of education and inequality rather than go down a path of isolation and more home defence and guns.

yes, the long-term goals should focus on education and equality as each state determines their need, not the Feds.

Isolation isn't as bad as many make it out to be
and in times of strife, isolation can be a vital method of survival.

as for how either of those fit in with 'home defense', i'm not sure.
home defense is an individual decision, not a government one.
home defense should never be viewed as some form of criminality.
and with better education, home defense is a natural evolution anyway.

monopoly ??
nah, rock'em sock'em robots
oh ok, hungry, hungry hippo ??
nah really, canasta/pinochle and a cool brew

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by region331

 

Isolation isn't as bad as many make it out to be

and in times of strife, isolation can be a vital method of survival.

as for how either of those fit in with 'home defense', i'm not sure.
home defense is an individual decision, not a government one.
home defense should never be viewed as some form of criminality.
and with better education, home defense is a natural evolution anyway.

monopoly ??
nah, rock'em sock'em robots

oh ok, hungry, hungry hippo ??
nah really, canasta/pinochle and a cool brew

Maybe isolation wasn't the correct term to use. What I meant was a class of people isolating itself (in a prison of its own making) from another class of people, in the hope that things are going to get better or magically fix themselves. Hopefully America won't go down a similar path to South Africa.

I could do Hungry Hippos or maybe Connect 4. It would have to be Nettle & Peppermint Tea though.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I've posted in a few threads lately about gun control and gun rights. I am of course in support of gun rights. I don't believe in banning our guns. I do believe in background checks and licensing.

The past few days have tested my thinking. I go for walks. This is duck hunting season where I'm at; gotta be. While I'm out there, I must hear on the order of a couple dozen shots. Some of them are loud like a shotgun. To be honst, it makes me feel slightly insecure. It's like a small scale civil war out there. If this were in a city, police would be scouring the area. However, I keep on walking anyway. Any fool that's dumb enough to shoot me will have to run from cops the rest of his/her life.

I think gun control is all about controlling the fear and ignorance people have inside them. They're afraid of getting shot. They're afraid of lunatics. They're afraid of the world, I guess.

Like that one person said, there's no perfect safety.

The #1 thing is that with freedom comes responsibility. That should be the focus, not banning fear. Education and awareness are the way to reduce fears and empower people.

reply to post by region331

yeah, i'd call that separatism and it sure is something i hope never happens here.

i just cannot accept the whole 'class' concept.
ppl are ppl, we aren't that dang different, really.

unfortunately, i'm afraid far too many ppl do buy into the salad of the day and if you're greens aren't green enough, you'll pay extra ... wth kind of logic is that ?

i prefer Jasmine or Chammomile but am willing to try something new
wow, connect 4 ... i liked that one
do you remember 'Trouble' or 'Yahtzee' ??
that's one dicey game i'll play over and over, lose and still like it

Regan is dead you numnuts.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by Tw0Sides

 

Why would he be a hero?

Reagan had lots of guns in the name of the United States militaries and he's still a hate filled bigot.

Nazi scum who happens to have guns is still Nazi scum.

He's free to hate all he wants. It's when he uses that hate to influence and affect the lives of others he's crossing the line into tyranny.

If Schumer and Sharpton want to hate a thing and a people that's fine. When they use their position and influence to push Jim Crow on the object of their hate they're crossing into tyrant territory.

reply to post by Honor93


I didn't mean to use "class" in the socio-economic sense of the word. I just meant 2 groups of people. Both of which perceive themselves to be victims. I'm a believer that life is largely circumstances and luck. Some of it you make yourself some of it you don't.

The mentally-ill aside, I think any of us could have ended up committing crimes. It wouldn't have taken much in life to end up going down the wrong path and it all starts at a young age.

A lot of people would be be prepared to shoot to defend their family and friends. Sometimes the 'victim' on the other side is just doing the same. A lot of the criminal class (again mentally-ill aside) are reacting to the circumstances they're in. Not many people are born criminals. A 5 year old child knows nothing of the world, some unfortunately just end up with the sh@tty end of the stick. All children learn from their parents and peers and some aren't taught very well. Hence before they know it they've shooting people for a wallet. I'm sure they're wondering how the f@ck they got there. Had they been brought up in a nice middle class family would they all be in that situation. Some would but the majority wouldn't. Likewise some people brought up in a nice middle class family end up in prison but the majority don't.

It all starts with education and its not rocket science to look across the world. Wherever there's people in poverty living alongside people with excess, there's crime.

You lost me completely with the Green Salad thing, sorry.

Trouble I don't remember and Yahtzee I never played but I just remembered Operation, Simon Says and Tin Can Alley.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Its a dumb argument.

The predator class will always be around doing what they do, with guns the difference is that an 80 year old woman or 12 year old girl does not have to be raped, they can fight back.

What about my right to walk around secure, legally permitted with the weapon of my choosing without the violent criminals best friend (people like you) trying to make me an easier target?

You somehow think its better to be attacked with knives and blunt instruments than to be shot?

I really wish people like you would stop being so dumb.

reply to post by samhouston1886

Its a dumb argument. The predator class will always be around doing what they do, with guns the difference is that an 80 year old woman or 12 year old girl does not have to be raped, they can fight back. What about my right to walk around secure, legally permitted with the weapon of my choosing without the violent criminals best friend (people like you) trying to make me an easier target? You somehow think its better to be attacked with knives and blunt instruments than to be shot?

First of all using the possibility of being raped as an argument is total BS and sickening.
The tiniest proportion of rapes could be stopped with guns, most victims of sexual assault know their attackers and shouldnt have any reason to fear them. As for the boogey man type Assaults your referring to, by the time you know whats happening having a gun isnt going to help as attackers dont announce from 20 or even 10 feet away what their intentions are. Learning a self defence is the best bet.

Using that argument is as bad as saying women who are assaulted, well its basically their own fault for not having a gun. Your an idiot.

Sure you can get the weapon of your choosing easily, good for you

What you and your gun loving buddies fail to realise is if you can get them easily so can criminals or even school children

And yeah Id rather be attacked by a bat or knife than a gun

What so only the terrorists, criminals and corrupt government officials will carry guns so we wind up like Nazi Germany?

There is a reason for Americans to carry weapons,
number 1 reason, it's our right,
number 2 it curbs criminals, and government officials. They are cowards and will avoid you if they think you are armed but will have no problem in killing you if they know you can't fight back.


So if you are for an unarmed America you are an idiot and setting yourself up to be led to slaughter.

If you are for an armed America you will be able to keep the criminals at bay, and be able to protect yourself from them if they attack.

reply to post by region331

since i'm not familiar with the separation in SA, i'll take your word for that.
classes is probably the best word unless they are separated by 'race'?
surely that's not the case, is it ?

i can honestly say that i've never met anyone over age 40 that has not been arrested for something at some point in their lives. not saying that is a good thing but it's a reality all the same.

hmmm, i can't bring myself to excuse the behavior of criminals based on the circumstances criminals find themselves in ... especially when it is of their own making.

back in the day, pick-pockets were 'popular' criminals, not gang-bangers ... they weren't even a passing fancy, yet. some parents still teach their children such skills

so, in such a case, who gets punished ?
the kids for exercising their newly developed skill or the teachers who taught it to them ?

this 'nice middle-class' environment straw is just that ... a huge straw dangling about with nowhere to go.

a huge percentage of criminals come from 'nice middle-class' upbringings. their result is not the fault of the 'environment' ... it is the direct result of what they are taught is acceptable.
(from whatever source)

let me put it this way ... in a state of wellness, i would not dream of picking the fruit on my neighbors tree.
in a state of desperation, it wouldn't take a second thought to ask first and even if told no, to take it anyway ... that, is human nature and we can deny it until we live it and then denial is just ... a word.

i won't discount your opinion but i will add there is NO particular environment that hosts a violence-free or crime-free society ... anywhere in the world.

yeah ok, bad analogy ... skip it.

Tin Can Alley ? never heard of that one.
hmmm, operation ... wasn't very good at that one. (too hyper)

boy, that's funny.
there aren't that many years between us but there is a generation of wealth that separates us and that's sad cause i'd bet we're equally broke

point is ... i'm trying to fish through my brain for some of the older games we did play (or could afford to) and all that comes back is 2 dozen variations of solitaire, a load of card games, dominoes, marbles, checkers, chess and outside/nature/hiking/stuff like that ... what did we do without all these 'gadgets' and games ??

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

A University of Pennsylvania "professor" said that White people want guns because they fear Blacks.

I started a thread on it here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Black Panthers demanded their right to own a gun.

I am so glad you brought this up. They have disarmed black people a long time ago. They have most black people believing that it is illegal to own guns, by not distinguishing between legal ownership and illegal ownership.


This is why equal protection is so important, because when one person's liberties are eroded it will slowly spread to everyone else. What people think is okay to do to Arabs and Muslims today WILL be done to Christians and others tomorrow. Guaranteed.

These pictures scared the sheet out of people back in the day and now it is happening to everyone. The days where you would see this are long gone.



Regardless of whether you agree, the FBI ended up putting a lot of Black Panthers in jail on erroneous charges.

This gun war will never be won on the ground, because most minorities cultures have been conditioned to believe guns are bad. The tide is against those who believe otherwise.

The Black Panthers owned guns at a time when crime from black people was little to nothing in most communities. This was before the drug epidemic that swept through the cities in the 70's.

(In his studies, Newton had discovered a California law that allowed carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun in public, as long as it was publicly displayed and pointed at no one.)

Also that year, the Black Panther Party marched on the California State Capitol in Sacramento in protest of a selective ban on weapons.

Federal Bureau of Investigation Director J. Edgar Hoover called the party “the greatest threat to the internal security of the country,”[11] and he supervised an extensive program (COINTELPRO) of surveillance, infiltration, perjury, police harassment, assassination, and many other tactics designed to undermine Panther leadership, incriminate party members and drain the organization of resources and manpower. Through these tactics, Hoover hoped to diminish the Party's threat to the general power structure of the U.S., or even maintain its influence as a strong undercurrent.[12] Angela Davis, Ward Churchill, and others have alleged that federal, state and local law enforcement officials went to great lengths to discredit and destroy the organization, including assassination.[13][14][15] Black Panther Party membership reached a peak of 10,000 by early 1969, then suffered a series of contractions due to legal troubles, incarcerations, internal splits, expulsions and defections.

Members were encouraged to carry guns and to defend themselves against violence.

Wikipedia