Indian Women Turn to Guns After Gang Rape Outcry

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by WaterBottle

 

I wasn't aware of that and it's very tragic.

Tell me about it, the caste system being the most tragic. I think they even said the crime was done by a "lower caste" where this stuff is considered almost normal, young men will be young men attitude.

Shocking and again nothing to do with guns.

reply to post by GrandStrategy


Most women I know couldn't get a gun out fast enough for it to play the role of peacemaker. I think these women ought to be able to carry guns legally, but they also should be trained extensively in their responsible and effective use.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


Oh sure I've heard that. I also heard of about 95% of Americas pro-gun posters crying from the roof tops that knifes are deadly as guns, that guns shouldn't be banned because people can kill just as many and just as easily with a knife.

Of course they are, whenever you have surprise on your side and are able to approach to melee distance. On top of that, their use will be completely silent unless you allow your victim to scream, so you'll preserve that element of surprise longer.... In defense, the blade won't suffer from minimum engagement distance, ie. when the victim realizes too late what's going on. Let's face it, you can't herd people into the back of a bus with your handgun just to maintain your comfort zone, so in this particular case, firearms use would have been messy, although probably still better than what actually went down.

That said, i'd consider a knife a good tool for a woman to stop her assailant if she has the guts to let him come close enough and then strikes to kill, not to wound. A handgun otoh, is more worry free since she'll have at least five shots, more likely 12-15, though, enough to deter or stop an entire gang. Against several assailants, noone can expect to live if they're serious, imho, it's just better to die in a firefight than be violated and beatn to pulp only to die after two agonizing weeks.

Pick your poison.

Speaking of which, a curare dipped blade would be wicked even against packs of rats - although probably even better for murdering a dozen unsuspecting people on a subway.

PS: before i forget it, would you allow them to carry combat knives ? up to which length? Katanas anyone

Originally posted by MDDoxs
Better policing and deal with the laxity when it comes to crimes victimizing women in this country would be a good start, compared to giving every one a gun.

edit on 2-1-2013 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

Policing does not work very often at the point of the crime. 99 percent of the time the police are involved after the crime severe personal damage has been done.

If we have an economic collapse and all those inner city people do not get a welfare check, you will see something mankind has never witnessed...mass riots the American inner city way. The national guard will not be able to handle it. Our troops are all over the globe. If we have martial law from an economic collapse the will bring in the United Nations troops. The infrastructure of this nation will be secured at all costs.

You want that scenario faced without firearms? You think the government listens to the people anymore? After all this crap since 9/11 and you think they care about us? They care for our infrastructure and they people of China and India, the slave lborors of the present and future.

I always think that knives àre generally very poor weapons for people who don't know how to use them.

Anyone holding a knife tends to act like they have one arm only, they can be easily disarmed and a knife lends itself to close quarters fighting. Unless someone knows how to properly hold the knife and use it in a controlled way.

In addition, the vast majority of women can be overpowered - even a skilled martial artist - by an average man on a mission.

A gun is potentially a better solution for a female. Big noise, big warning, big fear...gun shots get attention.

reply to post by tdk84


Well women could wait for "society" to change into a perfect utopia where there are no more rapist

or

women could just have the right to defend themselves ...

Gee I wonder how long they will have to wait and how many will be raped before your utopian dream takes full effect?

You got a time frame on that idea? How long will they have to wait? hmmm?

I think your answer is offensive ...

----------------

This is the basic difference between those who have guns and those who say no one should have guns.

Gun owners live in the real world while the anti-gun crowd live in a fantasy ...

There is a big difference between the way it should be and the way it is ... duh!!

Originally posted by selfharmonise

Originally posted by Doom and Gloom
i think in this case they should ban all penis' (sp?). Since we don't want the the women to actually defend themselves, we should just cut off all the dicks in the country. You never know when penis may rape you. Or we could just castrate all of the men in the country...

I would vote for that.

When are you standing for government?

When he gets the balls to

How about rather than just keeping everyone men, women and children armed and paranoid we focus on building a society where they need't fear being raped, beaten or killed?

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

Heaven forbid we give a 110 pound woman an effective defense against an armed 200 pound rapist.

You guys are always talking about how knives are just as deadly as guns. Whenever there is a mass shooting you say "but they could be using knifes!", then you point to knife crime in other countries and how 20 people were killed in a knife attack etc, they're just as efficient at killing, you say.

Using your own gun defending logic, wouldn't these women be just as safe carrying a knife. They don't need a gun, do they? Mass murderers don't need a gun to kill people, why would Indian women need a gun to kill people. They can both get the job done with knives.

Or have you changed your minds?

What's it matter to you, unless you're the criminal in the situation what a person decides to defend themselves with? What does it matter if its a knife or a gun. Arming citizens stops the problem at its source and since were spose to be living in this amazing civilized society people outside the US love to talk about why do you think we're all too irresponsible to have whatever weapon we want just in case the situation arises?

First, I am an American who does not own a gun. However I grew up around guns and can use them quite readily. To me they are nothing more than a tool.

The question I have is about WWII. Was this a one time occurrence or is there a possibility of a similar event happening again? If the Nazi's had set foot on England's shore, would it not have been better to have an armed populace or have a people willing to submit to the occupying force? I know many are saying this has no bearing on these discussions but I must disagree.

If there were no chance of harm coming from any quarter, then yes, get rid of guns. To say that you are safer without guns is true so long as everything stays at the status quo. It has been proven again and again that even small countries can cause big problems.

I guess that is the difference between gun owns and those who want them taken away. Gun owners are willing to stand up to those who want to oppress while those without can only hope they are kept safe.

Originally posted by yorkshirelad

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

When hundreds of concerned women turned up in person at the Delhi licensing office, they were told that the threat of rape and violent crime “could not be reason enough” for them to obtain a firearm, and officials were ordered by their superiors to hand the women a letter assuring them that “their daughters were indeed safe on Delhi’s roads.” How a letter would be any use against a violent rapist was not explained.

So gun grabbers. Do you support the rape and murder of these innocent women? Do you, in your self-righteousness, deny them the ability to defend themselves? What about your own daughters, sisters, mothers? Would you prefer they be brutally raped and beaten to death instead of having the right and ability to defend themselves?

The incident generated massive public outcry against the treatment of women in India and a call for tougher anti-violence laws. Figures show that a woman is raped in Delhi every 14 hours and rape cases have doubled in India since 1998. Government efforts to step up police patrols have failed to reduce the rate of violent crime targeting women.

This is no onetime thing. It is an epidemic and it is growing quickly. Is it ok because only one woman is being brutalized at a time?

Link

edit on 2-1-2013 by DarthMuerte because: (no reason given)

What a crock of sh.t. Using a situation in a MALE DOMINATED society where women are considered guilty when they are raped as justification for arms. I mean come on, switch the brain on. The MEN would be armed for f...s sake. No doubt the men would shoot the women AFTER raping them and claim the armed woman was going to shoot them for no reason. The male dominated legal system is never ever going to find them guilty and the women will be too dead to defend themselves.

This is a sign of desperation.

Thank God I live in a gun free country.

I was going to write a long reply about why the op thinks that more guns would have avoided this, but you have done so a lot more eloquently. There were four men who committed this horrific crime. Assuming they were all also armed, chances are the situation would not have ended any differently.

As you say, desparation.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by MDDoxs

So gun grabbers. Do you support the rape and murder of these innocent women? Do you, in your self-righteousness, deny them the ability to defend themselves? What about your own daughters, sisters, mothers? Would you prefer they be brutally raped and beaten to death instead of having the right and ability to defend themselves?

Straw man much?

Your claim is shameful.

Better policing and deal with the laxity when it comes to crimes victimizing women in this country would be a good start, compared to giving every one a gun.

edit on 2-1-2013 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)

Better policing?

Be serious; "when seconds count, the police are just minutes away". If and when they do show up, they might shoot you or your dog. They might go to the wrong address and shoot your neighbor. No thanks. It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

That argument makes no sense. As many other countries do well enough without guns....

We have enough problems with gun regulation in the west and it would be foolish to assume it would work over seas.

Really? Did you read the article? This was in India. India is not in America. In America, these women could have defended themselves, in India; not so much. Reading comprehension...it's a wonderful thing.

So why and draw an analogy with America? Comprehension would help you a lot. The woman was horrifically attacked, raped and murdered by four scum men. If she had a gun, you can bet your life they would also have had guns. Your strawman doesn't work any way you cut it.

Intelligence, reasoning, mature thinking rather than rabid desire to prove your point..... wonderful things.

I don't blame them, I'm ok with them killing/maiming rapists. Because there women, I'm sure very few Americans would have issues with that....how many women have stolen guns and entered a school to kill? Either way,if you're a responsible gun owner and you feel you need it for protection, more power to them! I bet rapes drop WAAAAYYYYYY DOOOOWWWNNN!

Originally posted by lampsalot
How about rather than just keeping everyone men, women and children armed and paranoid we focus on building a society where they need't fear being raped, beaten or killed?

One doesn't forbid the other.

Changing human nature to make it better is a noble goal, but good luck with that. The commies tried to build the ``new man``, didn't work.

Originally posted by something wicked
...
As you say, desparation.

she would have died on her feet rather than being subjected to lethal torture and an agonizing two weeks of slowly dying with numerous surgeries - i'd call that a different outcome, why don't you?


Interestingly i never got any answer on my knife question (PS in my earlier post)... wonder why, it almost seems as if it was just an argument for the sake of it, since the poster in question apparently wouldn't allow her to use as much as a toothpick or just martial arts, for that matter.

Be a good victim, die without a fuss, right? the same people are also against the death penalty (but, strictly off-topic, are probably fervent supporters of the medical euthanasia 'pathway' at the same time...) which, imho, of course serves to flesh out their world view very well.


================================================================================

Originally posted by Hr2burn
I don't blame them, I'm ok with them killing/maiming rapists. Because there women, I'm sure very few Americans would have issues with that....how many women have stolen guns and entered a school to kill?

wait a second, Lanza allegedly grabbed his dead mother's guns, the guy who shot the firemen in Chicago attained them via (a woman's) straw purchase so i suggest you add negligence to the very real list of risks.

Alright ...calm down .. so here's what you do ladies.. so they won't issue you a gun ..? ok ... go down to your local army barracks ..pay the guy at the armory a few buks and get yourself a 9 mm hand gun .. and six pack of grenades ..
Keep a couple of knives hidden also under them nice clothes .. in a country of corruption .. you can get anything ..

Then .. say six morons show up harassing you ... start with the 9 ..ask questions later ..it's late and isolated .. nobody cares anyways ...

If they have guns...and you know you're gonna be raped .. grab two grenades and keep your fingers on the pins ..that should make them think twice ..

worst case ....take out the bastards .. six at a time ..you might as well if you're going down ..

Originally posted by ashtonhz8907
More rape in the UK than USA........... Just saying.........

www.nationmaster.com...

Nevermind didn't realize it was already posted.

I should stop reading only the first page.

edit on 1/2/2013 by ashtonhz8907 because: (no reason given)

I don't trust rape statistics because most rapes are never reported, thus they are meaningless.

After all, a society that encourages women to report their assailants is likely to have a higher reported rape rate than a society that tells them to forget about it or keep it a secret.

Originally posted by Hr2burn
I don't blame them, I'm ok with them killing/maiming rapists. Because there women, I'm sure very few Americans would have issues with that....how many women have stolen guns and entered a school to kill? Either way,if you're a responsible gun owner and you feel you need it for protection, more power to them! I bet rapes drop WAAAAYYYYYY DOOOOWWWNNN!

What about Brenda Ann Spencer?

The only reason women are less violent than men is because they are not socially conditioned to be violent. The way to equality isn't to make women more violent.

Originally posted by lolita64

Originally posted by lampsalot
How about rather than just keeping everyone men, women and children armed and paranoid we focus on building a society where they need't fear being raped, beaten or killed?

One doesn't forbid the other.

Changing human nature to make it better is a noble goal, but good luck with that. The commies tried to build the ``new man``, didn't work.

edit on 4-1-2013 by lolita64 because: (no reason given)

But, human nature isn't a set thing. The beliefs of a society to some degree shape the behavior of its people. A society that believes in violence, towards women or men is more likely to engage in it on a large scale.

Originally posted by ArtooDetoo

Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by ArtooDetoo

 

And a lot less rapes would have occurred if the victim had brandished a firearm. In other words, had a gun to prevent the rape.

But what if the rapist also carries a gun ?

True, if there is a campaign to arm rape victims, then rapists are simply going to start carrying guns, which is problematic to me. Unless you're one of those people who thinks murder is less serious a crime than rape.