the top 5% don't care about the bottom 95%

how about this for one idea for social security....every person that has been fortunate enough to have or accumulated over 1 million dollars in hard assets or that have retirement income of $100,000 or more coming in per year, will ONLY get the amount of dollars they put into the SS system, spread evenly over a 120 month period.

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
Does the bottom 95% care about the top 5%?

as it pertains to having enough money for food, clothing, and shelter?....no....for eveything else?, of course

Originally posted by jimmyx
how about this for one idea for social security....every person that has been fortunate enough to have or accumulated over 1 million dollars in hard assets or that have retirement income of $100,000 or more coming in per year, will ONLY get the amount of dollars they put into the SS system, spread evenly over a 120 month period.

At least you're throwing ideas out there. But, consider this: that same person could have taken the money they were FORCED to put into the SS system, invested it in something of their OWN choosing over that 30-40 year period, and perhaps enjoyed exponential returns way over and beyond the initial investment. Your idea, though noble, is UNFAIR.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
And the politicians continue their assault while broadening the class-war rhetoric. Last year it was the "1%"; today it is the "5%"; tomorrow it will be the "55%".....

^ this

There are select individuals which have large estates and transnational corporations who are influencing, and writing the policies which are transforming this nation.

There aren't 3-15 million people running the show. It's but a few thousand with a large sphere of influence, and only a chunk of them who are doing hard crime to game the system.

Originally posted by DOLCOTT
The solution is to get a job or start a business, work your butt off and then you will be concerned how much of YOUR hard earned money is being taken to support those who WILL not work. I believe all americans particularly those of us who have been successful, will always help those who are less fortunate because of circumstance. This is far different than supporting those who do not want to work and are comfortable living in the government induced poverty.

i would agree with you, if, i had not had long discussions with my grandfather ( i am 60 now) about the times when he had to go to work in the coal mines of pennsylvania just to help out both of his working parents with the basics. one story was when he first went into the coal mines at the age of 14, he had a boss that knew his father, and after about 3 months in the mine, the boss moved him to driving the trucks, telling his father that it wasn't good for a young boy to be breathing in all that coal dust. even with that, driving the trucks was a 12-hour shift job, and since my grandfather was the low man on the totem-pole, so to speak, he had the night sift, and he constantly found himself fighting against the desire to fall asleep. so on several occasions, he would take a knife, and cut small slits on the palms of his hands that rubbed on the steering wheel, just so the pain would keep him from falling asleep and running off the road....if he did that, he would have been fired, and his family would have to pay for the repairs on the truck.

Another here that has worked hard and didn't complain about minimum wage because it's only a stepping stone not something to raise a family on. Just looked at my pay stub for this Friday amd taxes are another nearly $300 every 2 weeks but my state taxes went down about $16. My pay raise will cover it but the $600 a month is quite a hit and I haven't even looked at insurance yet but the wife retired so thats done at the end of this month to be replaced with a school retirement insurance for $150 a month instead of the $300 now. Looking up

Originally posted by queenofswords

Originally posted by jimmyx
how about this for one idea for social security....every person that has been fortunate enough to have or accumulated over 1 million dollars in hard assets or that have retirement income of $100,000 or more coming in per year, will ONLY get the amount of dollars they put into the SS system, spread evenly over a 120 month period.

At least you're throwing ideas out there. But, consider this: that same person could have taken the money they were FORCED to put into the SS system, invested it in something of their OWN choosing over that 30-40 year period, and perhaps enjoyed exponential returns way over and beyond the initial investment. Your idea, though noble, is UNFAIR.

unfair?...so, if this wealthy person got back 100% of his SS money that he put in, minus any hypothetical return that maybe or maybe not he would have recieved from his "investment" (and nobody has lost money on investments, right?), that would be unfair?....wow..uhmm...ok?

reply to post by jimmyx


Well I am assured that your Grandfather was a good man, just as mine who joined the army as a 14 year old and made a 50 year career. They had a far different set of values than today's youth. I was raised on several notions, the first being I was as good as any other man, the world was not a fair place and life wasn't fair, Be honest and your word should be your bond, always do what is right. Be practical and be ready to work harder than anyone else, results do matter.

As to the essence of your post, I believe the "old timers" have a very hard time looking at what all we have, and how we seem to be wasting it all. I wish I would have grown up in a different generation, when men were men, and what was right was always placed above what was convienent.

reply to post by jimmyx


You're missing the point. Most wealthy people got there from INVESTING. They expect to get a return on the initial investment.

What if you invested $25,000 in a CD over a 20-year period and at the end of 20 years, you go to the bank to withdraw your money. What if the bank told you that you were already very wealthy with all your other investments, stocks, bonds, real estate, insurance, etc. and they were only going to pay you your original principle amount of $25,000 on that CD. Is that fair?

If a wealthy person wants to VOLUNTEER to do what you suggest, fine. But means testing is absurdly UNFAIR. A million dollars might be worth squat in a few years. That old codger may KNOW this intuitively, especially if he is from the depression generation or heard his parents talk about it.

Originally posted by DOLCOTT
reply to post by jimmyx

 

Well I am assured that your Grandfather was a good man, just as mine who joined the army as a 14 year old and made a 50 year career. They had a far different set of values than today's youth. I was raised on several notions, the first being I was as good as any other man, the world was not a fair place and life wasn't fair, Be honest and your word should be your bond, always do what is right. Be practical and be ready to work harder than anyone else, results do matter.

As to the essence of your post, I believe the "old timers" have a very hard time looking at what all we have, and how we seem to be wasting it all. I wish I would have grown up in a different generation, when men were men, and what was right was always placed above what was convienent.

agreed, i have instilled that into my son until he was sick of hearing it when he was younger, now, he's graduated college and has started on a successful (hopefully) career path. my wife of thirty years is now hounding him for grandkids.

Originally posted by jimmyx
what has really stunned me in recent years is that people that work hard in a 40-hour a week job, still qualify to collect food stamps because of their dismal incomes. productivity over the last few decades has went up, the wealthiest among us have seen enormous increases, but, "the worker" has seen their wages near stagnation. put that on top of the middle-incomes losses in their 401K's, which all of us were told would amply replace a company retirement, and the collapse of the housing market, and we have a hollowed out middle-class, with millions now relagated to just-above-poverty living standards.

that's got me stumped too my friend and it's been like that for awhile. My wife managed a call-center back in Pennsylvania (THE Welfare state at the time) and people would be placed there from the State employment services. One lady that she remembers had children to feed, was single and was barely scraping by. The case-worker who'd placed her even recommended that she not work but go on public-assistance but this lady had too much pride and resolve. She took the job and tried to make it work for about 4 months before quitting to do what was recommended - join the roles of welfare.

Who's to blame or where exactly is the shortcoming in this system. Is it the employers who don't pay enough? Is it our economy that sets the standards and prices too high for basic affordability? Is it the states for offering so much for next to nothing?

Originally posted by queenofswords
reply to post by jimmyx

 

You're missing the point. Most wealthy people got there from INVESTING. They expect to get a return on the initial investment.

What if you invested $25,000 in a CD over a 20-year period and at the end of 20 years, you go to the bank to withdraw your money. What if the bank told you that you were already very wealthy with all your other investments, stocks, bonds, real estate, insurance, etc. and they were only going to pay you your original principle amount of $25,000 on that CD. Is that fair?

If a wealthy person wants to VOLUNTEER to do what you suggest, fine. But means testing is absurdly UNFAIR. A million dollars might be worth squat in a few years. That old codger may KNOW this intuitively, especially if he is from the depression generation or heard his parents talk about it.

if your retirement is in a 401k, you are only guaranteed by law the principle you put in, how would this be different? or unfair?

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
And the politicians continue their assault while broadening the class-war rhetoric. Last year it was the "1%"; today it is the "5%"; tomorrow it will be the "55%".....

I was just think that also.

No one is safe.

Even the bottom 95% don't care about the bottom of the barrel 95% below them .. this is sadly the nature of people these days .. nobody really cares about anyone ..people like the red cross and salvation army ..and charities may do this as a job and lucrative business ..but they also wouldn't care if it wasn't for getting paid ..

Easy to talk talk and talk .. even our leaders of the so called 'civilized world' .. feel it necessary to kill millions to avenge the death of 3000 .. while pretending to care and spread democracy in places where it's not needed ..
They forget about Sudan .. Ethiopia .. and so many other countries where kids are literally starving and dying ..
but noooo... it's ok to waste our tax money murdering millions and millions literally around the world for nothiing ..

who care about who really .. and what is it worth ..? what is the value of a human life these days ..?

So what?

People want to sit there and have a pity party with the woe if's me attitudes all they want it doesn't change a damn thing.

Crying about what someone else has
Crying about what you don't have enough of.

People need to stop and take a damn good hard look at what they do have.

It can't always be worse.

Blah with the nobody cares about me rubbish.

Originally posted by TXRabbit

Originally posted by jimmyx
what has really stunned me in recent years is that people that work hard in a 40-hour a week job, still qualify to collect food stamps because of their dismal incomes. productivity over the last few decades has went up, the wealthiest among us have seen enormous increases, but, "the worker" has seen their wages near stagnation. put that on top of the middle-incomes losses in their 401K's, which all of us were told would amply replace a company retirement, and the collapse of the housing market, and we have a hollowed out middle-class, with millions now relagated to just-above-poverty living standards.

that's got me stumped too my friend and it's been like that for awhile. My wife managed a call-center back in Pennsylvania (THE Welfare state at the time) and people would be placed there from the State employment services. One lady that she remembers had children to feed, was single and was barely scraping by. The case-worker who'd placed her even recommended that she not work but go on public-assistance but this lady had too much pride and resolve. She took the job and tried to make it work for about 4 months before quitting to do what was recommended - join the roles of welfare.

Who's to blame or where exactly is the shortcoming in this system. Is it the employers who don't pay enough? Is it our economy that sets the standards and prices too high for basic affordability? Is it the states for offering so much for next to nothing?

well, TX....this could be part of the problem...but this envolves paying more to poor people, so it doesn't have a chance in congress
www.bloomberg.com...

Originally posted by neo96
So what?

People want to sit there and have a pity party with the woe if's me attitudes all they want it doesn't change a damn thing.

Crying about what someone else has
Crying about what you don't have enough of.

People need to stop and take a damn good hard look at what they do have.

It can't always be worse.

Blah with the nobody cares about me rubbish.

edit on 2-1-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

so...why would joe scarborough on "morning joe" today moan and groan the entire show about having to pay more in taxes, all the while talking with udder disdain and contempt for any form of government assistance to the poor, (working or not), when his salary is 4 million a year....i hope he has enough to pay for his electric bill and groceries after he gets wiped out from those tax hikes

America was founded on individuality, freedom, personal responsibility.

WHY should the 5% indeed care about the 95%?

People, because they are successful automatically have an obligation to CARE about those that are less successful?

If they want to care for the 95%, then great. If they don't? *meh*

Instead we have now a government that removes caring from the formula. The government will do all the CARING for the 5%.

By taking their money.

And giving it to the 95%.

reply to post by TXRabbit


Wow so are in you the top 5%. Are you a billionaire. Have you really done the maths to see where you qualify? Guess what Most of us have taken the same route of rugged self-determination and worked hard. Some have even lost both their homesand their minds... Some have done well but never joined the billionaire's club.

Tiger5

Originally posted by TXRabbit


Tell ya what. How about I take a few grand out of my savings account and give it to someone who's living day-to-day, working at Wal Mart part time and barely able to buy clothes. Yeah..that'll teach them how to survive.
That's the point of complaining about it though, isn't it? "Wahhhh..Someone has more than me!" "Wahhh - why can't I have the stuff that they have?". "Wahhhh - who's going to give me something that I don't have??"

Insulting? Possibly. Who said the truth is cherry-coated and comes with a trophy.

You are confusing equal "opportunity" to succeed with "free stuff".

Not your fault. It's much easier to shout about how half of America wants free-stuff and "takes no responsibility for thier lives" than it is to argue that folks like Mitt Romney were born with the same "opportunity" to succeed as the impovershed child in the ghetto.

Opportunity....equal opportunity...NOT free stuff. Every other nation in the Western world recognizes this....And it is not out of some moral obligation, it is because they realized that to compete on the world stage they needed every potential genius and talent to have the "opportunity" to succeed. How do you do that? Feed them when they are hungry, teach them as much as thier hungry intellects can stomache, help them when they are sick....from there you launch them into the world and let the market forces do thier thing.

The USA is 25th in Math and Science...how many of the 24 nations ahead of us pay to put thier citizens through college? ALL...why do you think Korea, China et al are at the top of the Math and Science rankings? And no, they aren't smarter than US Kids...they just tap all thier talent and we just tap a fraction of it. Let kids eat, go to college and have thier healthcare taken care of...every kid...and the USA will hands down dominate the world.

Free stuff?....Lord that argument is as tired as the current GOP's idealogy of BS and tantrums. Who cares anymore about thier nonsense? Time for America to shine again IMHO. I am of the 5%...and it's time we stepped on the gas and find out what this country can do if EVERYBODY is given a chance..a CHANCE...an OPPORTUNITY...that is not crushed by hunger, ignorance and sickness....all throughout history symptoms of greedy tyranical rulers. We are a plutocracey, but change is comming.