Homeowner Shoots, Kills Burglary Suspect in N. Phoenix

reply to post by GrandStrategy


If you break into someones house, you deserve all that comes your way, including death, regardless of mental status.

You are the kind of person that thinks all can be solved with talking, hugs and just understanding the persons conditions and past.
You are about as naive as they come.
I suppose you are what, a 20 something, pie in the sky liberal, that believes in trophies for everyone and no harsh words to children.
YOU are the reason why the US is circling the toilet.
You stand for nothing and are basically luke warm on all and everything.
No spine.

Originally posted by WP4YT

Originally posted by JarheadFidelis
reply to post by cripmeister

 

If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple.

Sorry but if I see someone trying to pry open my daughters window in the middle of the night, they are getting a slug center mast, no questions asked.

I could really care less if they are fully inside my house. The point of self defense is to stop harm from coming to you. Am i supposed to wait and look at my watch until they break in and start raping my daughter before i defend her??

edit on 3-1-2013 by WP4YT because: (no reason given)

why is everybody talking about their daughters window. what does his daughters window have to do with this story?

No where in the story does it say he was stood at his daughters window. He was at a window and spotted by the dad, presumably you'd say it was the living room or kitchen window

You all keep turning to emotional arguments about daughters bedrooms, but it's not even part of the story

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

If you break into someones house, you deserve all that comes your way, including death, regardless of mental status.

You are the kind of person that thinks all can be solved with talking, hugs and just understanding the persons conditions and past.
You are about as naive as they come.
I suppose you are what, a 20 something, pie in the sky liberal, that believes in trophies for everyone and no harsh words to children.
YOU are the reason why the US is circling the toilet.
You stand for nothing and are basically luke warm on all and everything.
No spine.

I'm British, don't blame me for the state of your country, blame you.

And I've been a criminal so I don't just think that people can be changed with reasonable, mature action, I know they can, even without it. I've seen change in myself and change in friends, family and strangers alike. People change every day.

That you would have wished me dead, and might still wish me dead now on account of earlier crimes, for being a young and dumb child, it just blows my mind. That you wish mentally ill people dead, people who don't really know what they're doing, people who TALK TO THEIR HANDS, that is horrifying.

Crazy, crazy evil people

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

If you break into someones house, you deserve all that comes your way, including death, regardless of mental status.

You are the kind of person that thinks all can be solved with talking, hugs and just understanding the persons conditions and past.
You are about as naive as they come.
I suppose you are what, a 20 something, pie in the sky liberal, that believes in trophies for everyone and no harsh words to children.
YOU are the reason why the US is circling the toilet.
You stand for nothing and are basically luke warm on all and everything.
No spine.

I'm British, don't blame me for the state of your country, blame you.

And I've been a criminal so I don't just think that people can be changed with reasonable, mature action, I know they can, even without it. I've seen change in myself and change in friends, family and strangers alike. People change every day.

That you would have wished me dead, and might still wish me dead now on account of earlier crimes, for being a young and dumb child, it just blows my mind. That you wish mentally ill people dead, people who don't really know what they're doing, people who TALK TO THEIR HANDS, that is horrifying.

Crazy, crazy evil people

I'm glad that you have mended your ways. However, had you been killed while you were victimizing other people, it would have been your fault, caused by your own bad choices, not because of "crazy evil people."

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

I'm British, don't blame me for the state of your country, blame you.

Ah..............A Brit chiming in with pompous BS.
Ok then.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
And I've been a criminal so I don't just think that people can be changed with reasonable, mature action, I know they can, even without it. I've seen change in myself and change in friends, family and strangers alike. People change every day.

Oh, that is rich. A self admitted British Criminal telling Americans what needs to be done on an American based situation.
Yeah, let me get right on your OPINION.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
That you would have wished me dead, and might still wish me dead now on account of earlier crimes, for being a young and dumb child, it just blows my mind. That you wish mentally ill people dead, people who don't really know what they're doing, people who TALK TO THEIR HANDS, that is horrifying.

You deserve all that comes your way when you break into someones home. That includes death to some dumb-ass kid that thinks it might be fun.
Regardless, no person has any right, in any way to enter into someone else's property or house. I could care less about their/your social conditioning, economic status or mental capacity.
You enter into my house, and I will have no problem shooting you, and will sleep like a baby that night as well.
Oh, and just because he was talking to his hand, does not automatically mean he has a mental issue. Drug induced psychosis will bring that on as well. And that means even less in regards to shooting the person.
I could care less if people do drugs, but when they use drugs and enter into my home, they will get dispatched just as quickly.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
Crazy, crazy evil people

Yeah, I agree. Those that think crime will have no consequences. Very Evil and Very Crazy.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

If you break into someones house, you deserve all that comes your way, including death, regardless of mental status.

You are the kind of person that thinks all can be solved with talking, hugs and just understanding the persons conditions and past.
You are about as naive as they come.
I suppose you are what, a 20 something, pie in the sky liberal, that believes in trophies for everyone and no harsh words to children.
YOU are the reason why the US is circling the toilet.
You stand for nothing and are basically luke warm on all and everything.
No spine.

I'm British, don't blame me for the state of your country, blame you.

And I've been a criminal so I don't just think that people can be changed with reasonable, mature action, I know they can, even without it. I've seen change in myself and change in friends, family and strangers alike. People change every day.

That you would have wished me dead, and might still wish me dead now on account of earlier crimes, for being a young and dumb child, it just blows my mind. That you wish mentally ill people dead, people who don't really know what they're doing, people who TALK TO THEIR HANDS, that is horrifying.

Crazy, crazy evil people

I'm glad that you have mended your ways. However, had you been killed while you were victimizing other people, it would have been your fault, caused by your own bad choices, not because of "crazy evil people."

Maybe so but I think that goes beyond the point. Is it necessary and is it just to kill thieves. I don't think it is generally speaking, exceptions exist of course.

If someone shot me in fear I wouldn't begrudge them, as you say I shouldn't have put myself in that situation. That's not the debate, we know scared people do dumb things, we know if you put someone in a fight or flight situation, cooler heads don't always prevail and it's almost a survival mode moment, but then you should see the error in your ways after the fact, when you have a clear head and think it through a normal person would think "Okay, maybe killing a mentally ill person who talks to his hand wasn't the best course of action."

But It's when you're saying on paper, in a general sense, that all criminals should be killed, when you're saying before hand that you would simply shoot a thief, no qualms about it, doesn't matter if there's real danger, you'd shoot them anyway for violating your property. That's when it becomes a problem, because then it becomes clear there are people who will shoot not to defend the well being of their family, not out of instinct, but simply because criminals deserve to die.

It's no different to some drunk in a bar approaching you for a fight, and you turn around and shoot him dead. That's not a course of action that should be celebrated. Unless it's necessary, unless there's no other option, it's a wrong action.

The last time that I checked you don't get the death sentence in America for robbing a house. The reason you aren't put to death for robbing a house is because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

reply to post by GrandStrategy

why is everybody talking about their daughters window. what does his daughters window have to do with this story?

Does it really matter what window at your home an intruder is attempting to gain access into?
It's your home, your family. According to the article, his wife and two young daughters are in the home.
From the article:

Phoenix police Officer James Holmes said the 35-year-old intruder was trying to pry open a window when he was spotted by a man who lives there. Phoenix police Officer James Holmes said the 35-year-old intruder was trying to pry open a window when he was spotted by a man who lives there. The occupant, his wife, and two young girls were in the home at the time.

www.abc15.com...
His family was in his home, the people he Loves and has no desire to see Harmed,
America is not the UK, Thank God!
You continue to be conditioned to rely totally on your local Government and let us take care of our own.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

I'm British, don't blame me for the state of your country, blame you.

Ah..............A Brit chiming in with pompous BS.
Ok then.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
And I've been a criminal so I don't just think that people can be changed with reasonable, mature action, I know they can, even without it. I've seen change in myself and change in friends, family and strangers alike. People change every day.

Oh, that is rich. A self admitted British Criminal telling Americans what needs to be done on an American based situation.
Yeah, let me get right on your OPINION.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
That you would have wished me dead, and might still wish me dead now on account of earlier crimes, for being a young and dumb child, it just blows my mind. That you wish mentally ill people dead, people who don't really know what they're doing, people who TALK TO THEIR HANDS, that is horrifying.

You deserve all that comes your way when you break into someones home. That includes death to some dumb-ass kid that thinks it might be fun.
Regardless, no person has any right, in any way to enter into someone else's property or house. I could care less about their/your social conditioning, economic status or mental capacity.
You enter into my house, and I will have no problem shooting you, and will sleep like a baby that night as well.
Oh, and just because he was talking to his hand, does not automatically mean he has a mental issue. Drug induced psychosis will bring that on as well. And that means even less in regards to shooting the person.
I could care less if people do drugs, but when they use drugs and enter into my home, they will get dispatched just as quickly.

Originally posted by GrandStrategy
Crazy, crazy evil people

Yeah, I agree. Those that think crime will have no consequences. Very Evil and Very Crazy.

And that's why you're rat filth, a sub human, because you lack the human capacity for empathy. You have all the tell tale signs of a psychopath.

Originally posted by guohua
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

why is everybody talking about their daughters window. what does his daughters window have to do with this story?

Does it really matter what window at your home an intruder is attempting to gain access into?
It's your home, your family. According to the article, his wife and two young daughters are in the home.
From the article:

Phoenix police Officer James Holmes said the 35-year-old intruder was trying to pry open a window when he was spotted by a man who lives there. Phoenix police Officer James Holmes said the 35-year-old intruder was trying to pry open a window when he was spotted by a man who lives there. The occupant, his wife, and two young girls were in the home at the time.

www.abc15.com...
His family was in his home, the people he Loves and has no desire to see Harmed,
America is not the UK, Thank God!
You continue to be conditioned to rely totally on your local Government and let us take care of our own.

edit on 3-1-2013 by guohua because: (no reason given)

Yes it matters. Numerous posters in here are using emotional arguments, asking dumb questions like 'well what would you do if some one was trying to break in your daughters room'. That he wasn't breaking in to the daughters room matters a lot, because with the daughters room question the implication is that the person was there to harm your daughter. No, there's no evidence of that.

From the evidence we have he was breaking in to attempt to steal property. The difference is collosal

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


And that's why you're rat filth, a sub human, because you lack the human capacity for empathy. You have all the tell tale signs of a psychopath.

Says the British Criminal

reply to post by GrandStrategy

The last time that I checked you don't get the death sentence in America for robbing a house.

You do if your confronted by a person protecting their Loved Ones and that person does not know your True Intentions, are you there to simply rob the home of valuables? Then pick a home where nobodies home!
What Are Your intentions? I can not read your mind!
The article did mention the home owner yell for him to leave.

The occupant told police he confronted the intruder and yelled for him to leave.

www.abc15.com...
Sounds like a fair warning. Ignore and Continue your activities and your going to get hurt.
Sorry, I'm not running away and hiding.

I have debated sharing my personal story of a break in that happened to me when I was 21. But here it goes.
My best friend and I were roommates it was both of our first time not living with a gaggle of friends, so we found the best deal we could afford. Well it was a quick lesson that you get what you pay for. We ended up in a unit that was in the back of the complex in the units reserved for Section 8 housing. It was not the place we were originally shown. We figured no big deal because we didn't come from the greatest environments. After the activity I witnessed on a daily basis, I had just celebrated my 21st birthday after moving in and bought myself a 38 special. A few weeks later I was home alone and my buddy stayed at his girlfriend's. I woke up at about 3 am to my dog barking his head off. He was in trouble so he was in his kennel otherwise he would have bit the guy. I knew something was wrong so I grabbed my gun and peeked into the living room where I saw a shadow. I opened my door and the light from my TV allowed me to se the Guy better. I pointed my weapon and yelled "GET OUT OF HERE!" He yelled "F You" back to me and took a step forward. I shot twice and missed and he took off. I could have taken a third shot while he was unlocking the door and running away but instincts stopped me.
I called 911 and waited on the phone until police arrived. They ransacked my place, and asked me why I was targeted. I had no answer besides us having nice stuff. I guess they were suspicious because of the normal tweaker crime our complex had. They took my gun and did not give it back for almost a year. I finally got ahold of the detective who told me I did the right thing, but due to the crime in my area they don't believe the residents too often. He apologized for the inconvenience and released my firearm back to me.
I guess this story hit home because it was good to see the police standing up for their citizens.
I did move out that day in fear of retaliation since he got away. I must have just barely missed because the holes were in the center of my front door.

reply to post by cripmeister


If you were trying to break into my home, I'd kill you. It's a death sentence trying to break in, or if you have accomplished the break in. You should be expecting to die if you are a thief. My family, property, and home is more valuable than a thief's life, or murderer.

reply to post by GrandStrategy

Yes it matters. Numerous posters in here are using emotional arguments, asking dumb questions like 'well what would you do if some one was trying to break in your daughters room'. That he wasn't breaking in to the daughters room matters a lot, because with the daughters room question the implication is that the person was there to harm your daughter. No, there's no evidence of that.

No Evidence!!

Holmes said the occupant told police he felt threatened because he thought the intruder would get into his daughter's bedroom.

Better to have protected your family than be tied to a chair and witness the rape and murder of your Loves Ones!
Wouldn't you agree?
I'll say this again, You and I can not read the other persons mind, we do not know his intentions.
The intruder was attempting to gain access to a private residence.
The intruder did not stop and leave when ordered to by the resident.
The intruder is Dead.
Go ahead and run and hide and pray the Police show up in time to save your A$$ and that of your Loved Ones.
I'm Sorry you can't seem to agree that the protection of your Loved Ones are more important than the life of a Criminal.
We'll have to part ways here, you go ahead and depend on faceless people to respond to the need of you and your's.
I'll depend on my family and myself to keep safe what I Love Most In this World, My Family!

Originally posted by guohua
Please do not make a statement like:

If the guy was IN the house, he didnt have a leg to stand on. If he was outside then the homeowner was in the wrong. Its that simple

If you don't know our Laws in our State.

Although I starred your post for the fact that you gave some pretty good information regarding the laws, those laws themselves aren't a 'license to kill."

Meaning just because a certain form of homicide can be justifiable doesn't mean all homicides claiming to be justifiable are justifiable. You can't just shoot someone and then claim "I felt threatened" without proving that you actually were.

Burglary in the second degree under section 13-1507 involves someone illegally entering or remaining in a residence and attempting to commit a felony or theft.

Burglary in the first degree under section 13-1508 involves entering a residence with deadly weapons and the intent to commit a felony.

Do any of those categories apply to a man allegedly "attempting" to illegally enter a residence that appeared to be unarmed?

Maybe not.

The point is, the law is there for extreme cases, not just to have everyone kill anyone they feel "might" be a threat or "apparently attempting" to enter a residence without utilizing any of the other options that could easily have handled the situation without involving someone dying.



- Lee

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Maybe so but I think that goes beyond the point. Is it necessary and is it just to kill thieves. I don't think it is generally speaking, exceptions exist of course.

If someone shot me in fear I wouldn't begrudge them, as you say I shouldn't have put myself in that situation. That's not the debate, we know scared people do dumb things, we know if you put someone in a fight or flight situation, cooler heads don't always prevail and it's almost a survival mode moment, but then you should see the error in your ways after the fact, when you have a clear head and think it through a normal person would think "Okay, maybe killing a mentally ill person who talks to his hand wasn't the best course of action."

But It's when you're saying on paper, in a general sense, that all criminals should be killed, when you're saying before hand that you would simply shoot a thief, no qualms about it, doesn't matter if there's real danger, you'd shoot them anyway for violating your property. That's when it becomes a problem, because then it becomes clear there are people who will shoot not to defend the well being of their family, not out of instinct, but simply because criminals deserve to die.

It's no different to some drunk in a bar approaching you for a fight, and you turn around and shoot him dead. That's not a course of action that should be celebrated. Unless it's necessary, unless there's no other option, it's a wrong action.

The last time that I checked you don't get the death sentence in America for robbing a house. The reason you aren't put to death for robbing a house is because the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Conversely, given the violence and brutality that so many thieves and home invaders add to their theft, the onus should not be on the citizen to determine just how nefarious their intent may or may not be. Simple robberies turn into rapes and murders all of the time. Sometimes it is because they do not want witnesses and sometimes it is because they are just cruel and evil people.Given this, one should not expect an honest citizen to play psychologist and policeman and counselor and social worker all at once at 0200 in the morning. The benefit of the doubt for the need to use deadly force should be given to the citizen. It is very easy for the criminal to avoid the problem: don't cause it.

This is not about being judge, jury, or executioner, it is about honest people protecting themselves and their families from predatory criminals. No homeowner ever wanted to shoot someone. Even if determined legal, the civil lawsuit and emotional fallout can be devistating. Ever single defensive shooter would have perferred to sleep in thier bed peacefully. It is the criminal that forced the situation on them and it is the criminal that is at fault for their own demise.

Not to be off topic,,, But Arizona, You have to Love Our State and it's willingness to allow it's Citizens to protect themselves and others.
THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN AT A WAL-MART SUPERCENTER IN ARIZONA.
Finally, a truly well-dressed Wal-Mart shopper.

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading." --Thomas Jefferson

reply to post by guohua

And she's carrying a good gun instead of settling for less. I love 1911's!

reply to post by guohua


That is SO obviously staged.
Still...I get why it would be making the rounds at this point.
- Lee

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by GrandStrategy


And that's why you're rat filth, a sub human, because you lack the human capacity for empathy. You have all the tell tale signs of a psychopath.

Says the British Criminal

Yes, says a criminal 9 years ago. I'm 23 now.

Regardless, my being or not being a criminal doesn't impact upon the fact that you're displaying all the trademarks of a psychopath with your comments.

ego, irresponsibility, antisocial behaviour, lack of empathy, claimed inability to feel remorse, etc.