Proof 2 Guns Found in Black Honda at Sandy Hook Elementary School

this is not about the guns anymore and this is way off topic...

reply to post by esdad71


wrong. The op was about the guns and the car and the license plates and the perps.

reply to post by Mysticalsea


Hi!

There was initial transmissions that indicated that LE was looking for a maroon van with the windows blown out and someone that may have been dressed like a nun. NOTHING, since then. However, Vance during his press conference today indicated that Adam was the "only" shooter and they were not looking for anyone else. That is not to say that they are not pursuing perhaps firearm sales illegalities but they did not indicate that they had any others that they were pursuing.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by sconner755

 

Scone, you are a detractor. I have seen your work all around these Sandy Hook threads. There are some good points you make. But you are here more to defuse any discussion. You quote the mighty SO with authority and regularity. Your agenda is clear. Now you want to toss in aliens?? So how many accounts do you have? You didn't just show up on Dec 23, 2012. You should try laying a little bit lower as to not give yourself up.

Please, keep your paranoia in check. Why is important for you to derail your own discussions by making accusations about me?

Back on topic, yes, it does defuse discussion when somebody makes totally baseless claims with zero evidence and I point that out. That's because there's nothing to discuss except your conjecture.

On the topic of the hard drive, no matter how you try to avoid the logic of my post, it makes no sense that a "groomer" would either destroy it or tell Lanza to destroy it. A groomer would just remove it and wouldn't trust Lanza to destroy it if it had sensitive information on it, right?

And as others have posted, the information is still on it. Smashing it didn't destroy the information on it. And the information came from somewhere. The ISP would have all those records.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


There was a mod warning on the last page or maybe the one before that. Some people are just speechless now. The mod asked that we stay on topic. There were a few posts that got waaaay off topic. But asfiak this thread has stayed within the original intent of the op.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

There was a mod warning on the last page or maybe the one before that. Some people are just speechless now. The mod asked that we stay on topic. There were a few posts that got waaaay off topic. But asfiak this thread has stayed within the original intent of the op.

Sure, but my point is that open discussion arrising from this thread is related.

For example.

1. OP says the shotgun is a Saiga-12.
2. Another user states that Lanzas Mom didn't have a Saiga-12 registered to her.
3. By observation we see that it is indeed a Saiga-12 and it has also been modified with pistol grip and hicap magazine. (This requires a new trigger group as well.)
4. Individuals may not legally resell for profit any firearms they manufacture without proper FFL license. The modification mentioned above are extensive enough to reclassify the weapon 922 compliant E.G. "Made in the USA". It was orginally a Russian import.
5. Since the Gun is unregistered it is highly unlikely that it came from a licensed dealer, and so is very likely to be an illegal firearm!

Given these observations we can deduce that there is a high probability that the Saiga-12 we see is an illegally transferred firearm and so we now know that the official statement that all firearms were legally obtained is very likely false.

No Mod would want to stifle open discussion friend. Knowing where to draw the line is an art. A Mod not knowing just causes anger and prevents the progression of ideas that lead to real revelations. Certainly we should not be discussing pancakes but "Words do indeed build bridges, and we need to see where they lead"!

I participated in a couple of posts that discussed the legality of transferring modified Saiga-12's and it may have seemed completely unrelated to the original OP, but in fact it was at the heart of the OP's intent to point out inconstancies in the original story etc..

Did they find a homemade gun, or an illegally transfered one in the trunk? Thats the question I now want answered! Thank you OP!

In the video I see a Saiga-12 or maybe Saiga-20 being cleared, and later I see the shotgun and a huge 20 round magazine being taken away. Without open discussion nothing ground breaking at all!

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Agreed. Someone didn't like the responses they were given therefore attempted to derail the discussion by parroting the mod warning. He was mistaken. You may have to scroll back a minute

reply to post by sconner755


Police found a busted hard drive.
It remains to be seen if was actually Adam Lanza's.
Little, if anything has been proven about this case.

reply to post by sconner755


First: You wanted to argue the point that Adam wasn't doted upon by his mother. I dealt with that and you had nothing after your suggestions that his mom was running around.

Second: This kid was a techtard. He was very interested in computers and his briefcase. He was by all accounts, handicapped, he was in the tech club which his brother proceeded him in, but in spite of the fact that the club had an event in the Lanza home, this kid never befriended anyone in the club, he was a "loner". He worked on computers. The expectation that he had many computers would be assumption made by anyone. He was affluent; there were plenty of resources to fund his interests. You never addressed that. Encryption?? You think that this kid did not know how to obscure his communications, and if I am correct in my thinking, so did his handler?? You think that these people leave around flipping address books???? You never addressed the possibility of professional involvement. You have never investigated this kids associations, which are out there, and are telling.

Third: I have read no reports about him being an abductee, or someone who was visited. If you have something please add it to the discussion. It may be an avenue that needs to be explored.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by GrantedBail

 

Certainly we started by talking about the gun, as I only see one (The second you see picked up is just a very large Saiga-12 20 round clip.)

Which video are you watching? The one where the officer is clearing the shotgun? That obviously shows only one weapon.

The OP'er is reffering to the second video he posted iirc, I read the entire OP yesterday.

this video 2:30 into it. you may have missed it cause it won't embed, and wasn't embedded in the OP.

www.youtube.com...



If you watch the above video it shows four CSI? guys in white..., they come over to the back of the car and you can plainly see one guy taking out a rifle in his right hand, then the next guy taking a second rifle (not a magazine clip) out, and putting it in his left hand. I mean it's plain to see as the group walks away two of the four guys are carrying rifles. Or most likely one is carrying a shotgun, and the other is carrying another rifle (possibly the Bushmaster?).

Anyway, (and the rest here has nothing to do with your quote DD just some other thoughts I wanted to post).

I think the idea that Lanza came outside after the shootings and did some shooting in the parking lot, and THEN put weapons back in the trunk, only to returned back into the school to finally shoot himself is tough to imagine. But it's not out of the realm of possibility, and could account for witnesses and people thinking there were 2 shooters. With rounds being fired inside the school, then outside, then inside again, could be quite confusing.

reply to post by GrantedBail


Wow. My post was to thank ATS for working so carefully and thoroughly on this thread and to say as a ct mom it has cleared up a few issues for me. I then noted a couple of points about the investigation. As an actual one off line at the end I joked about now if we can just find out about the man in the nun suit who was stopped with guys in ski masks on the police recording. Now I find that my post was banned as off topic.

As a well intentioned brand new poster here, may I ask why it was banned? I see that when granted bail gave a polite response about the nuns that post was not banned so it was not the nun joke that caused it. Was it thanking the posters on the thread that got the post banned? Or making observations about whether someone on the autistic spectrum might have smashed the computer if he was agitated for some reason. Or explaining that the police recording is actually a cache of calls in the area, not just in Newtown?

I realize repeating some part of this content could get this post banned as well, but I really am seeking some guidance as to where my misstep was so I can avoid it in the future.

reply to post by Nola213


What did the guy in the brown jacket take?

reply to post by Asktheanimals


EXCELLENT!!!!

The fact that there were 2 black Hondas is relevant.

What is the LP# in the pic from Times Union?

Definitely a Saiga 12 also

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by Dragoon01

 

An individual is not allowed to build a gun for resale and this includes modifying a Saiga to be US built E.G. 922 compliant. 10 round mag is fine more than this is illegal in an imported rifle or shotgun. Your logic that a magazine makes a Saiga 922 compliant is way way off base.

It is a fact that a modified Saiga made by an unlicensed individual for resale is not transferable, just the same as if you built a parts kit onto a 100% receiver. That is not to say they are not sold, but it is illegal to do so. You can NOT build guns for resale if you are not a federally licensed firearms manufacturer, period.

Saiga parts count.
(1) Receiver
(2) Barrel
(3) Mounting block
(4) Muzzle attachment (shotguns w/ threaded barrels only)
(5) Bolt
(6) Bolt carrier
(7) Gas piston
(8) Trigger
(9) Hammer
(10) Disconnector
(11) Buttstock
(12) handguards
(13) Magazine body
(14) Magazine Follower
(15) Magazine Floorplate

You need 5 parts to make a Saiga 922 compliant, and the act of doing so requires that a person be licensed or the weapon is not transferable. Just adding a HICAP magazine can and will land you in the Federal Penitentiary! Tranfering a modified Saiga not eligable for resale = penitentiary!

Be careful friend, I don't want to rain on your parade but don't think you can build weapons for resale with being licensed to do so. Modifying a Saiga to be 922 compliant is indeed manufacturing!

It's a good way to learn the time-honored profession of stamping out license plates! There is nothing more to be said than that.

If the ATF did make a determination that said the Saiga only had 13 parts then I would want to see it up close and personal before trusting it. The idea that just adding US made magazine can make a weapon 922 compliant is pretty awesome, but I think if it were true we would see many AK's and similar falling under the same.

www.law.cornell.edu...
18 USC 921(a)(11)(A) To resell you would be considered a dealer.
18 USC 922(a)(1)(A) To resell you would need an FFL.
18 USC 921(a)(21)(C) For the provisions of selling from one's own collection, and note that "dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business" is an ambiguous term, and can be interpreted against you in court, based on the facts. Even selling one is a "thin ice scenario". Selling more than one, or heading out to the gun show with a table full of modified guns would see you sitting for many many years!

Building and later selling a single gun would more than lilkely be fine, but anymore could see you in real trouble!

edit on 3-1-2013 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

I didnt say you could BUILD a firearm and transfer it. Yes thats not Kosher. Changing parts is not BUILDING a firearm its assembling a firearm. Your not doing anything to the serial numbered receiver which is already registered with ATF.
You are not understanding the law correctly here. In order for the Saiga to be imported it has to ALREADY be 922 compliant. You can make all the changes you want to that gun and sell it to anyone legally as long as you dont add more than 10 foreign made parts to it. When you get ready to sell it set it down and count the foreign made parts as long as you have 10 or less its good to go. I am not aware of any imported parts kits to convert the Saiga to a more traditional Ak configuration but you could use regular AK parts to do it. At that point you could get into an issue if they were imported parts. You could however use some of the US made conversion kits and have no problem whatsoever.

922 is a tricky thing but its really not an issue unless you own a Pre '93 gun or you are wanting to restore a gun to its original condition using all foreign made parts. For example I have a pre '93 SKS Norinco Chinese. Its in original pre-ban condition. I cant make any changes to it unless I make ALL the changes to it. It predates 922 so its all foreign parts but as long as I do not change out just the stock or trigger or something like that its perfectly legal. If I want to put a Tapco stock kit on it I have to change enough parts to make it 922 compliant. At that point its still perfectly legal for me to sell that gun.

Thats how the law works but if you want to continue with your interpretation of it you will be fine.
But this is getting things off topic so lets move on.



****correction to my post. The Saiga as imported is considered to be a "Sporting" gun and is thus not covered by 922r. So unless the barrel is not threaded for a choke a mag alone would not be enough to make it 922 compliant. The threaded barrel has 14 parts so you would need one additional part to be 922 compliant with a US made mag.