Sandy Hook: Anomalies Persist

Originally posted by Liquesence
And still...Even the crap about media reports. I know media are supposed to check sources, etc before reporting, but when something like this happens, the intent to get information out as quickly as possible makes the information prone to error because it so quickly surfaces and is reported. That's not excusing it, but it doesn't make it a conspiracy.

This argument has been made and I reject it.

This is just one example of why.

Those of you following the other threads will no doubt be familiar with the second man caught and cuffed that day.

If not...

www.youtube.com...

As interesting as this never-named-man is that they are interviewing...what I find astonishing is that in all my travels I have not been able to find one pic or video shot of this man who is, "right over there." As a matter of fact...the reporter standing right there...with a camera man...makes no effort to get a shot of this possible killer.

And still with the theme of these people hanging around giving interviews...here he is again... 1:50 mark. They'll keep talking to him but make no effort to see the person he's talking about?

www.youtube.com...

This isn't a chaotic situation with people scrambling around. This guy is hanging around giving interviews...and they still can't be bothered to give us his name...or attempt to view the suspected killer?

Highly anomalous.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter


I agree. I would be absolutely inconsolable. No way could I do an interview. I would have to be completely sedated and knocked out. I don't even think I would be able to stand up.

Those were questions I had during each of those interviews that I watched. How could those parents the very next day be giving sit down interviews??

i had to see if the picture upload time was true, unfortunately it's not. they could have edited it though simply by setting their clock back to that time and saving it and reuploading it, maybe why the last second is the only one different

reply to post by swansong19


I am with you on this Swan. The different information. The police, ems, scanner youtube. There was a few crazy moments on that tape. Especially when the officer was yelling "I got them", they are coming your way down the driveway". What was that?????? And how the firearms changed from when the cop first reported on the radio what he had found, and how it changed later 2 or 3 different times. Those are statements being made within minutes of the police arriving.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
reply to post by swansong19

 

It appears that the Newtown Bee is owned by the Smith Family and has been since 1881? I couldn't find anything else out about the ownership.

I thought it was 1887...but yeah.

That is another reason the contention that the statement by Dawn Hochsprung was mishandled in some way is a reach. This was a small town paper. They covered the schools very well. She'd been there 2 years. Everyone knew who she was.

It would be much easier to make a determination on this if we knew how the message was received. But it's never been explained.

reply to post by swansong19


Yeah, you were right 1887. Sorry.

Here is a burning question that I had cleared up for me today regarding the youtube recording of the scanners regarding one of the other suspects named:

The problem with this Youtube video is that it pieced together several audio feeds. It's not an actual tape of the radios being used at the school and only those radios. There is a lot going on, including calls unrelated to the shooting. Right before this, an EMS call goes out for a person with neck pain.

You have to listen a few minutes before the Christopher Rodia name is played.

A man with the same voice who calls out the Rodia info says at 10:00:33 a.m. (25:02 in Youtube video) "33 to Headquarters, motor vehicle stop."

He comes back on the radio at 10:01:12 a.m. (25:42 in Youtube video), in between shooting-related calls about getting "buses" aka ambulances, he says "722-ZHA, radar," meaning that the MV stop was by radar of a car with that plate.

He is then not heard from for a few minutes. Presumably this is when he is walking to the car and speaking to the driver.

At 10:06:13 a.m. (30:43) he's back, "33 to headquarters. Run the operator." Then it is hard to hear because of the encrypted radio transmissions the Newtown police are using. The feed of the Newtown police was edited together with the other feed, which is called "Fairfield County Police, Fire, and EMS" in Radioreference.

It's easier to hear what the officer making the traffic stop is saying if you listen to just the "Fairfield County Police, Fire and EMS" feed archive, which can be found in Radioreference's archives.

He says "Run the operator. He has a Florida license and out of Connecticut as well. Name is Rodia R-O-D-I-A, Christopher A. Date of Birth is August 6, 69."

Dispatcher responds "10-4."

So, the cop has the operator's driver's license. He's not running the plate. He wants the dispatcher to run the name through their computers to check for warrants, etc. What happens during the rest of the traffic stop isn't heard on the radio.

If there is anything wrong with what I just posted let me know and I will edit it. I don't want to do anything to put your thread in jeopardy.

Originally posted by swansong19

Originally posted by Liquesence
And still...Even the crap about media reports. I know media are supposed to check sources, etc before reporting, but when something like this happens, the intent to get information out as quickly as possible makes the information prone to error because it so quickly surfaces and is reported. That's not excusing it, but it doesn't make it a conspiracy.

This argument has been made and I reject it.

This is just one example of why.

Those of you following the other threads will no doubt be familiar with the second man caught and cuffed that day.

If not...

www.youtube.com...

As interesting as this never-named-man is that they are interviewing...what I find astonishing is that in all my travels I have not been able to find one pic or video shot of this man who is, "right over there." As a matter of fact...the reporter standing right there...with a camera man...makes no effort to get a shot of this possible killer.

And still with the theme of these people hanging around giving interviews...here he is again... 1:50 mark. They'll keep talking to him but make no effort to see the person he's talking about?

www.youtube.com...

This isn't a chaotic situation with people scrambling around. This guy is hanging around giving interviews...and they still can't be bothered to give us his name...or attempt to view the suspected killer?

Highly anomalous.

edit on 1-1-2013 by swansong19 because: (no reason given)

Reject it all you want.

Those videos prove my point, not yours, lol.

In the first, the media reports the guy was taken into custody, but that he was looking for his daughter. Chaos, safety, speculation.

As interesting as this never-named-man is that they are interviewing...what I find astonishing is that in all my travels I have not been able to find one pic or video shot of this man who is, "right over there."

Because he was likely NOT determined to be a true suspect, and was only detained and questioned because he was a frantic parent and people were freaked out and not knowing what was up or down, and, in the chaos of the moment, the authorities did not know who he was, even if it was speculated by confused people that he might be a "second shooter."

And what about minute 1:50? They're interviewing someone. What about it? About the security system? That certainly is something to be looked at, sure, but it doesn't prove a conspiracy because security systems are not fool proof. And even if a system is in place doesn't mean it was implemented to its full capacity at all times.

My house has a security system. That doesn't mean i use it like it should be used. If someone should break in and kill me, does the fact that someone says, "well he had a security system" have any bearing on whether it was working or if i used it properly? No.

This all proves my point. In my original post.

reply to post by swansong19


Another question I have is: Was there some kind of shooting that took place in the parking lot at some point. Two reasons for this. First:

According to Rousseau, the slain teacher’s 2004 Honda Civic — parked outside the school — was riddled with bullets when authorities removed the vehicle.

link

Second:

Police have found numerous bullets outside the school that hit at least three cars, including the one owned by Lauren Rousseau, who was killed by Lanza in her classroom along with 14 of her students and a special-education aide. The three cars that were hit, belonging to Sandy Hook staffers, were near where at least one of the first group of officers parked before running into the school, sources said.

www.courant.com...

Irrespective of LE "saying" they want to go back out and recreate the scene to determine if Lanza was shooting at the police. I believe they may be trying to throw us off in this article and they might have those questions also.


on edit: Don't feed the trolls

reply to post by christoph


Hey, thanks so much for doing that. That's why I want so badly to discuss this with others. There's only so much that can occur to one person.

Here is the story behind the photo.

lightbox.time.com...

At 9:59 last Friday morning, Shannon Hicks pulled her 2006 Jeep Wrangler off the road just outside Sandy Hook Elementary school. As associate editor and photographer for Newtown, Connecticut’s local paper, The Newtown Bee, she was responding to a radio dispatch heard over a local police scanner.

Now I'm not going to nit-pick this beyond saying that given the reports and the atmosphere with which we were presented I am doubtful she could have gotten to where she did to take the pics she did. But then the kid also says he was standing in front of the school watching kids come running out...unsecured. So...I don't know.

If you take a look at this picture
newtownbee.com...

You can see that not only is she standing there...but someone casting a shadow standing beside her, who also appears to have his/her arm up to their face, is there. Maybe they came together, I don't know. But I am still struck by the reports of ease with which people were milling about...and all those allowed to hang around.

Anyway.

I've looked at aerial photo comparisons provided to me and I think I have a fairly reasonable idea where the participants are in that shot. And apart from the dates...and my rather subjective observations..(the officer in the lead not appearing to be dressed for a day of fighting automatic gunfire)...I see no reason why the photo couldn't have been taken in precisely the way it has been presented.

reply to post by Liquesence


I don't know what your agenda is, but it's obvious that you have one and it's probably to get this thread shut down when all these good folk are doing is trying to get to the bottom of the story, which is so close to them that they have to spend their time investigating videos and catching the media out on their failure to hide the story properly (I bet heads will roll at the office for that hiccup!) and because they are so tied in with the people involved and it's part of their duty to investigate to the hilt every avenue of this hoax case.

I mean, they are satanists for god sake, this needs to be blown wide open. Clones perhaps even, that's why no one has noticed anyone gone missing - or very very good actors. Either way, you are trying to get these good folk here on ATS to stop and this is obviously because you are a government operative sent here to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt.

Firstly, these fine upstanding citizens have every right to pry into the deaths of small children whom they have never known, leaving a trail of bread crumbs on the internet so that any one who does wish to search for something, will be inundated with the facts. Facts man. FACTS. Do you know? Facts. Like this was a hoax black op to make sure your guns are taken away man.

They can kill 20 kids... They need to hide in plain sight to steal your guns.

These fine folk are doing their civil duty, sticking their noses in. They were there. They saw the carnage man, these poor people have so much emotional interest in solving this madness.

I mean, how can you try and stop them from simply finding out the truth man... It's every humans god given duty to investigate all of these coverups.

Or else they'd be so bored to tears with nothing else to do.

reply to post by GrantedBail


There is something I'd like to mention. LadyK was kind enough to direct us to work done by her friend who had seperated cuts of the recordings.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

As you mentioned, in the originaly posted recordings one department/crew was overlayered with another and it was difficult to discern what was going on.

In this/these cleaned up clip(s) you can hear much better how things develop and what is said.

This is what has been guessed is said. Notice there is only 20 secs between comments.

www.youtube.com...

1:35 Connecticut 872YEO Possible suspect vehicle
1:55 Squad 3 to HQ I have run the operator He has Fl and Conn license Rodia Christopher A. DOB is 8-6-69

I think what is more accurately happening here/being said is...

There's one person that calls in the plate...and then another person asks HQ to "Run the, uh, operator. He has a Florida license..."something"...track it as well.

Makes sense to run the plate and the operator if the operator is there. My guess is 2 cop cars approached the car (872-YEO)...One cop runs the plate during the stop...the other cop takes Rodia to his car, gets his info and asks HQ to run it.

Pure conjecture...but there it is.

Peoples emotions must be raw if politicians are to change fundemental laws suh as the right to bear arms. This has been done exactly the same way in loads of other countries.

People are vulnerable to making stupid mistakes when they are emotionally challenged.

An emotional event is the only possible method the US government has to try and get a gun ban. To get people to vote with thier hearts and not their heads, which is a very very bad idea.

reply to post by swansong19


It seems to me we have three different license plates

This one, the picture of the back of the car that Lanza purportedly drove

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The plate you mention, 872-YEO

And this other plate that was called in 722-ZHA (supposedly Rhodia's)

I am starting to wonder if the 872-YEO isn't the teacher's car that was shot up.

What do you think?

reply to post by winofiend

Firstly, these fine upstanding citizens have every right to pry into the deaths of small children whom they have never known, leaving a trail of bread crumbs on the internet so that any one who does wish to search for something, will be inundated with the facts. Facts man. FACTS. Do you know? Facts. Like this was a hoax black op to make sure your guns are taken away man.

Facts? I have yet to see ONE FACT on any of these threads. I've seen confusion at a chaotic scene. I've seen downright shameful discipline among Police Officers and others who should have known better than to offer statements to anyone if they weren't in possession of all the facts. It creates contradicting stories. It creates what we've seen here from the start.

What I've personally seen is an event that left a crime scene the ultimate black nightmare of anyone in Police or Medical fields to walk into. What I believe we'll also see is a very noticeable pattern within 1 year of this event in looking at who was working as cops or medical responders the day this happened ....and who is no longer in that field or anything like it. These events don't just burn victims families. They burn Police as well.

_______________

It may be near impossible for some to accept, but cops are human beings prone to mistakes, stupid statements, bad memory and just plain emotional shock causing fuzzy thinking and bad judgement. Cops and Medical usually have enough emotional armor built up to handle damn near anything......but 20 small children blown to pieces in masses together? You guys realize it was probably an effort just figuring out what 'remains' properly went with what original child? This was true nightmare stuff...

Despite that, every single mistake of any kind for deed or word is pointed to as a smoking gun to suggest "someone" other than a mentally ill murderer was behind shooting 20 little kids. No allowance can possibly be given, it would seem, for misinformation between those working the scene .....miscommunication..or just plan mistaken impression. Apparently, cops are supposed to be Superman. Able to wade through ANY level of pure carnage and be totally unaffected by it. It doesn't work like that. It never has.

Only in the MOVIES do cops shake it off and move on without so much as a moment of breakdown in the privacy of their patrol unit. I wonder how many broke down in THIS case..IN the crime scenes?

_______________

There are conspiracies and then there is being a friggen ghoul. This has passed well into ghoulish territory, sans ANY facts.....and I'm as disgusted right now as I've ever been. It's just sick.

I had hoped ATS Administration were serious about ending this. Apparently, they weren't. That is a deep disappointment. Since that warning was made? Thread after thread after thread has kept flowing. Not a fact in sight... Opinions everywhere....and no concern whatever for the effect it may have on REAL HUMAN BEINGS.

I'll say this for certain. While these kinds of threads dominate?? There is *NO WAY* I'd recommend ANYONE to coming here. It wouldn't just be they'd leave....that's a given. It's that by merely referring them here to find this filth, I'd be painted with the same brush which currently finds me feeling ill.

This is turning a fine site into a cross between a Heavenly place and the National Enquirer without even THEIR normal standards of limit to what won't be run.

Congrats, a new low point for ATS re Sandy Hook.

I will predict you're going to reject any explanations that don't fit your predetermined theory that this is a conspiracy. Not a great thread. Another horrible thread filled with personal speculations, comparisons of how people "should" have acted to how they would have acted (comparative speculation), and admitted lack of being "web savvy" which isn't surprising.

I will also explain and rate the "anomalies" using Skeptic Overlord's descriptive adjectives:

Funeral Rule - I'm certain that the Funeral Rule about how people don't have to use a funeral home does not apply to a mass murder crime scene with 26 bodies filled with bullet holes on the day of the murders. Every family should have just walked right in and taken their child home according to your premise.

Ridiculousness, Wildly Foolish Rating 10


Lt. Vance - Kids, if interviewed, will be interviewed by professionals. No current plan to do so. Obviously had to consider both possibilities, and for now decided not to interview kids since the evidentiary value of their statements in a case with a dead shooter is not needed, and the potential to further and deepen their trauma over the shootings is real. If they were going to interview the kids they have no reason to publicly disclose plans for the interviews. That would be stupid.

Nonsense, Narcissistic Conjecture Rating 8


Victoria Soto FB page -already shown to be a different page created for a different purpose and renamed. Google is your friend.

Self-Absorbed, Shameless Rating 10


Dawn Hochsprung quote - You are sill waiting for an answer to how this could be possible? Are you #ing serious? You can think of no possibly answers? No, she didn't make the quote. That's obvious. She was dead. So this means the person who attributed the quote made a mistake. Still with me? Mistakes are a possible explanation, not just conspiracy theory.

Wildly Foolish, Shameless Rating 10


Time Stamps on Photos - Photo info comes from camera, not server. And you would have no way to access the servers to see the clock on the paper's server anyway. Just another ridiculous conjecture. Again, Google is your friend.

Ludicrous Conjecture Rating 8


Witness reports - No way to fit reports into the time line with any accuracy. Quotes out of context can be manipulated to create any fantasy world you live in.

Self-Absorbed, Narcissistic Conjecture Rating 10


Christoper Rodia - Overlapping radio broadcasts provide zero evidence he was connected to the Honda.

Nasty Aspersions Rating 9


Gene Rosen - Nice guy, has a side business taking care of people's animals, was emotionally impacted by events of the day.

Nasty Aspersions, Shameless, Lowest of the Low Rating 10


Robbie Parker -grieving father of Emilie Parker. Acted like a courageous, heart-broken young man living the worst nightmare possible.

Nasty Aspersions, Lowest of the Low Rating 10+


Emilie Parker -wasn't sitting on Obama's lap, that was her sister.

Ridiculousness, Shameless Rating 10


Girl Scout Troop Numbers -Why would the Girl Scouts be participating in a conspiracy to kill little kids, or to cover-up or be part of faking murders? If they didn't list the troop numbers for the victims it's probably because they didn't want the other girls in those troops harassed and shamelessly dragged through the mud on internet forums.

Ridiculousness, Narcissistic Conjecture Rating 10


Grieving parents being interviewed - the lowest of the low on ATS. Judging parents who've just had their children murdered against some fantasy in your heads about how you would have acted, or how they should have acted according to your fantasies. And then persisting that YOU know how they should have acted.

Shameless, Narcissistic Conjecture, Ridiculousness, Lowest of the Low, Self-Absorbed Rating 10+


By the way, the whole cached data page on cc.bingj.com may likely have been downloading malware every time you refreshed the page. Google cc.bingj.com malware.

Yes, gullible seems like a great description.

Originally posted by Chai_An
This topic will get you censored around here, political correctness is running high on this story never mind the weirdness and multitude of anomalies so tread lightly.

Hmmm...I'm not really seeing any signs of that yet.

Are you?

Originally posted by swansong19

Originally posted by Chai_An
This topic will get you censored around here, political correctness is running high on this story never mind the weirdness and multitude of anomalies so tread lightly.

Hmmm...I'm not really seeing any signs of that yet.

Are you?

Yes, you've already got people questioning how the parents acted "wrong" in the interviews.

I honestly believe you have good intentions, and are just clueless and don't get the ramifications.

From SO referring to another thread:

"And this thread is the absolute worst display of your ludicrous narcissistic conjecture -- outing personal details of a private citizen and mocking him on the pages of our precious ATS for the world to see".

Your entire premise is casting aspersions like a shotgun blast at many, many individuals based on nothing but self-absorbed, narcissistic conjecture.

Just because things don't happen the way you expect doesn't mean other people are part of a conspiracy to kill, or fake the killing, of little kids.

reply to post by christoph


Considering she claims that she never even gotten there til...and I quote...9:59am...that's a pretty good job to get it home (a mile and a half), though all that traffic and congestion and upload it to the server...in 15min. And that's assuming she snapped the pic the second she got out of her car...and then turned and left.

Furthermore...the calls came over the radios by 9:40. That would mean it took her at least 20min to traverse the mile and a half...assuming she left as soon as the call came...which one would expect one to.

Of course, that's working off the premise that you are correct. If the other poster was right it would be even more astonishing.

Originally posted by christoph
i had to see if the picture upload time was true, unfortunately it's not. they could have edited it though simply by setting their clock back to that time and saving it and reuploading it, maybe why the last second is the only one different

I already posted it in another thread www.abovetopsecret.com...

When I checked the pic it gave me another time than 8:15:29, however it was a XX:15:29 too (don't want you guys to know which time zone I'm from). Then when I compare my local time and the Newton time and use this difference I get for the Newton time of this pic 11:15:29 AM, so this was after the shooting started.

Go to Google and type "Newtown CT time" to get the time difference to your local time, then open the pic newtownbee.com... in a browser window and check for last modified (this is the time it was last modified in reference to your time zone, not the Newtown time zone) and then use the time difference between your time zone and the Newtown time zone to calculate when the pic was last modified in reference to the Newtown CT time zone, this will give you 11:15:29 AM
So there is nothing wrong or suspicious here, the same applies to the date in the address bar, read my linked post.

reply to post by sconner755


You speak as if there were not certain behavior and outward appearances of having experienced extreme
emotional trauma. There are. Eyes so red and swollen from tears you can barely open them.
A voice hoarse and halting when you can gather your wits to speak, at all.

You don't know what it looks like to see someone who is burying their child, I suppose.
I do. From my own parents faces. From the face of my first cousin, who I was always very close
with, who's son was mistaken in a dark house of some friends, who'd left him there.
He was awoken alone the next morning, beaten almost half to death, shot and then his body set on fire.

Let me just say that it is very hard to reconcile the faces and voices I've seen in Sandy Hook in the aftermath
from those most closely affected. I've seen more emotion on the face of strangers who feel empathy and
sympathy than I have witnessed from parents and teachers and the photos I have seen of the funerals, memorials
and TV interviews. This is just my personal opinion only. If that opinion disturbs your sensibilities, so be it.