Sacsayhuamán: lost art of stone softening?

So there was another civilization in South America that's ancient but far far advanced of the stone age. And at one site they've chosen to use impossibly gargantuan rocks constructed with even more impossible zero-mortar perfect joints. The joints are absolutely impeccable. Not even a razor can fit between, yet each boulder is goddawful humongous.

Again, so many questions, so many mind boggling theories any which way you look at it.

Extraterrestrials again?

Sacsayhuamán, Peru
900-1200 AD
12,000 feet above sea level
Limestone, estimated up to 200 tons
Seemingly utilitarian retaining walls.
-13.508566,-71.98203 (coordinates)

A person has to be fascinated by these people. If they were smart enough to do this, they were also smart enough to build homes and structures out of any other material of their choosing(At least in my opinion). But they chose stone. Not only helpful in the event of earthquakes and other catastrophes, but it seems to me, these people were forward thinkers. They weren't just focused on the present. They were thinking longevity. They were thinking way ahead of their time, and possibly sending a message we haven't completely figured out yet. Beyond the proverbial "we were here".

S&F.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


I watched this Youtube video recently, and it also discusses these mega stones that you have in your pictures:



It is a long video/movie, but in the beginning, it deals with the mega structures.

Let me see if I can find the mark, where they talk about the stones in your pictures.

EDIT: Just go to the 55 minute / 56 minute mark in the video, in order to see the discussion about the stones.

Of course, I do recommend watching the whole movie from the beginning though.

Regards
QMask

www.abovetopsecret.com... i think this could be of interest to you op as i think it talks about a simaler process im looking for a video i saw on youtube of a bird that uses some kind of plant leaf to for lack of a better term "soften" the stone so it can peck nests and homes into the side of the rocks
www.mangoverde.com... this link is about the bird that makes its nest in rocks have not found a video yet
www2.uah.es...(only in spanish sorry) talks about the plant that the bird uses to make its nest

richardgrigonis.com... on how root penetrates rock some what related

hope this helps op star and flag

The appearance of the stone wall's face makes me think that the stones were lapped into each other, I suppose using water and abrasive...

The straight-line joints in many places makes me think it was not stone-softening.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


That Ancient Alien Debunked video has really made its rounds..

Reminds me of sitchiniswrong.com, Michael Heiser pointed out a few things that Sitchin might have misinterprated and BAM! Sitchin was wrong about everything he ever said.

This is going the same way..

I like your posts OP but have a feeling the same all knowing skeptics that showed up on your Puma Punku thread yesterday will arrive shortly and trash any possibility of actually discussing your topic.

Originally posted by RalagaNarHallas
... i think this could be of interest to you op as i think it talks about a simaler process im looking for a video i saw on youtube of a bird that uses some kind of plant leaf to for lack of a better term "soften" the stone so it can peck nests and homes into the side of the rocks...

Interesting concept. It would be nice if you can summarize it into how it may apply here for an intelligent discussion.

Likewise, I notice the other peculiar comments.

Such incessant and pointless attempts at debunking the wrong concepts indicate either compensated disinformation or simple knee-jerk stupidity. Because I hope it's not an attempt to discourage forum discussions.

Those who are interested in this subject now have to consciously ignore the idiots.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
The appearance of the stone wall's face makes me think that the stones were lapped into each other, I suppose using water and abrasive...

The straight-line joints in many places makes me think it was not stone-softening.

Anybody who has built anything similar (like with garden stones) knows the most difficult joints to close are the verticals. The weight from upper courses tend to splay out the lower courses. They almost have to be "pushed" horizontally or somehow held against each other.

There's a theory of workers suspending the 100+ ton pieces while dozens of men use manual abrasion to match upper and lower surfaces. But even if some ancient crane device can continually raise and lower for fine adjustments, there are too many combination vertical and horizontal "corner" joints.

How on Earth did they quarry and carve plus shape the stone then transport it to the site ? when you mention soften ? do you mean making them weigh less ? it`s very similar to other ancient stone work found around the world Giza , Easter island etc .

anyway very good thread .

Originally posted by FormerSkeptic

I've been trained to build in stone and let me tell you some of those joints, you just wouldn't attempt with hand tools (not to mention a clear mind). If you take a central stone in the wall, you've got to set all the surrounding stones as well as the stone you are trying to lay because each change in the stone you are trying to set needs changes the stone you are setting it against. The tool or method used must have made it so easy to cut stone that the builders just didn't have to care what they were doing, they could just cut and set the stone. IMHO they would have had to use a high pressure water cutter in order to cut like that.
like this...
or this...

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


I think the ancients wall builders looked for natural quarries of rock which had fault lines penetrating throough the rock. Fault lines caused by siesmic activity. They quarried around the fault lines and hence ended up with slabs that fit perfectly togther.

Fascinating, indeed.
I could perhaps see the investment in time and energy if they had build something large and significant...like a place for the gods/pyramids etc, or some kind of very important structure that would justify the "investment".

But no. Here they said: lets use all our excess labor and take up our bronze tools and head for the quarries. We need to build some... erhh, terraces!

Why did they do it? The answer might be very simple...because they could :-)

reply to post by nomadros


That is what i have come to believe , a high pressure water cutter otherwise the stone would have splintered/shattered in places .

This is probably one of the best documentaries i have ever saw and is a MUST! watch

reply to post by FormerSkeptic


Perhaps, but the stones look lapped together to me.

reply to post by FormerSkeptic

Those pictures are some of the most incredible photos i've ever seen and I agree "stone softening" is indeed a valid theory. And I thank you for posting this.

I almost seems like it could be what Marshall Klarfeld states that they were used for gold mining. They didn't want to lose any gold through the cracks sort of speak. But I am not 100% sure on that, I think it is worth looking into.

Here is a photo of his book, have not bought it yet. But seems interesting.
ep.yimg.com...

Originally posted by shambles84
reply to post by nomadros

 

This is probably one of the best documentaries i have ever saw and is a MUST! watch

Excellent documentary video.

I've watched it before and was about to post it later as a sort of culmination or summary of all the ancient mysteries. At about 40:10 in the video is where this topic gets mentioned.

It certainly presents irrefutable evidence that would get deep under the skin of the Ancient Aliens haters.

Good comments, all.

Indeed, it would've had to have been some kind of "easy tool" like our modern high pressure water cutter. But then that's only half the mystery — because there's still the fine adjustments needed to match each and every gargantuan piece. Some other amazing machinery (or levitation method) would've been needed to suspend the megaliths, if only for a short moment for some back-and-forth adjustments, so that workers can use their power tools! Outrageous stuff.

So the thread title is just one inexplicable shocking theory to challenge your mind. Every which way it's inexplicable, far-fetched or just extremely implausible. It's like there's really only one good direction of reasoning, considering all the other evidence and modern coverups.

I don't understand the comment about "lapped together." You mean folded together? Indeed the corner joints are the most baffling — where an "L" shape is made at an unnecessary spot but it's equally razor perfect.

Also, by the way, the debunkers only talk about the finer pitch marks near the joints, which can easily be explained by supposing that there were human workers going in afterwards as a follow-up to smoothen and round the exposed edges. Debunkers are counter debunked.

Originally posted by FormerSkepticI don't understand the comment about "lapped together." You mean folded together? Indeed the corner joints are the most baffling — where an "L" shape is made at an unnecessary spot but it's equally razor perfect.

When I say the stones appear to be lapped, I mean one was placed on top of other stones with abrasive and water, and dragged forward and back until the desired fit was achieved. I think it is the best explanation for the "L" shaped joints, how one stone seems to dig into the stones below it, and also for the complete lack or mortar.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by FormerSkepticI don't understand the comment about "lapped together." You mean folded together? Indeed the corner joints are the most baffling — where an "L" shape is made at an unnecessary spot but it's equally razor perfect.

When I say the stones appear to be lapped, I mean one was placed on top of other stones with abrasive and water, and dragged forward and back until the desired fit was achieved.

I am familiar with this for some time already, but just looking at the picture of this wall again baffles my mind endlessly. But your explanation that they might have done it that way is excellent, makes a lot of sense to me!

I just did a VERY quick googling "limestone" and found immediately a very startling fact

* Limestone can be dissolved by acid (!) (say, vinegar....)
* MANY of the ancient "mysterious" structures were built w/ limestone

I have NEVER ever read about the theory that acid such as vinegar could have be used to dissolve or smoothen, but for me this is a VERY plausible thought!